Posts by digglina

23

My mother started preaching on me today...

by digglina in

my mother has just been preaching to me for over an hour (the usual circular reasonging: i have the truth - if i have the truth they will oppose me - they oppose me - so i have the truth...).

the one point she seems to have is the thought that god has a people to serve him.

the bible does speek of him using individuals, but most of the time he also has a special people.

digglina

Thank you all very much for your responses. They've been very helpful to me. Sorry I couldn't respond sooner.

Thanks,

Digglina

23

My mother started preaching on me today...

by digglina in

my mother has just been preaching to me for over an hour (the usual circular reasonging: i have the truth - if i have the truth they will oppose me - they oppose me - so i have the truth...).

the one point she seems to have is the thought that god has a people to serve him.

the bible does speek of him using individuals, but most of the time he also has a special people.

digglina

Tea for two: You're right. That's excactly what I said...

Blondie: Thank you. That's a good one and one I wasn't really aware of myself. I especially like the fact that you always quote on WTBTS own liturature...

KW13: Yes! This is one example I also use sometimes.

Remains the question -to put it in my mothers words - there has always been some kind of organization. People who met to encourage eachother, elders etc.

And what about the fact that God would gather a people for his name?

Just curious how you think about this. Thank you very much for your responses so far.

(I have to step out for now, but hope to read your responses later)

23

My mother started preaching on me today...

by digglina in

my mother has just been preaching to me for over an hour (the usual circular reasonging: i have the truth - if i have the truth they will oppose me - they oppose me - so i have the truth...).

the one point she seems to have is the thought that god has a people to serve him.

the bible does speek of him using individuals, but most of the time he also has a special people.

My mother has just been preaching to me for over an hour (the usual circular reasonging: I have the truth - If I have the truth they will oppose me - they oppose me - So I have the truth...). The one point she seems to have is the thought that God has a people to serve Him. The bible does speek of Him using individuals, but most of the time He also has a special people. What do you think? Should you be part of a religion or shouldn't you (own opinion or biblically speaking)?

64

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE NOW?

by bubble in

i've been disfellowshipped for 4 years now (for loose conduct - lol) .

what i want to know is, what am i supposed to believe now?

i was brought up a jw but i know that so many of their teachings and doctrines are completely false.

digglina

I always think of Mozes. After he killed the Egyptian guard he ran of to the dessert and stayed there for 40 years, just taking care of the sheep. He got married, led a normal life. Then, when he turned 80, God could use him again. My point is that, if there is a God, I think this shows that he is more patient than man. He apparently gave Mozes time to think things through, lead his life and mature.

Life is not a picture (static), life is a film (dynamic). Whereever you are now (in limbo or some other 'God foresaken' place...), it is possible that in time (weeks, months, years) you will be at peace with yourselves.

We look upon the world from our own perspectives. What you believe, is true...

All the best to you,

Digglina

11

Excercising free will and trusting yourself

by digglina in

maybe you can help me think a little.. i'm not getting very far myself.... for the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'.

i've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc.

these are the things i came up with:.

digglina

Sirona,

Thanks for the list. I've already seen some things that I recognize

Garybuss,

Thank you for your encouraging words. I'll keep in mind to challenge my assumptions...

Digglina

11

Excercising free will and trusting yourself

by digglina in

maybe you can help me think a little.. i'm not getting very far myself.... for the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'.

i've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc.

these are the things i came up with:.

digglina

Elsewhere,

I regcognise the analysing thing: I'm just like that . Only I always ignored my 'feely' side. That hasn't turned out well for me, because It made me make the wrong decisions, decisions that were not good for me. I'm a very sensitive person. For a long time I didn't even realise that sometimes the feelings I had weren't mine: I was just being so empathic that I felt what people around me were feeling.

I was taught not to listen to my feelings to a point that even when I intuitively thought I had to take a turn to the right I automatically considered this to be the wrong choice (because I 'felt' it) and thus made a turn to the left (which of course was the wrong way and then I started to blame myself).

I am also a very responsible person upto a point that I can make life difficult for myself. Nevertheless I agree with you that religion takes your own accountability away. This is also why it doesn't feel good to me anymore. It started it out when I decided to divorce on unbiblical grounds. I thought it through thoroughly and thought the elders would understand. It came up to a point that I felt I would die if I stayed with my husband. Of course they felt for me, but couldn't agree on it. (I could not provide any evidence for adultery, am still only suspecting. And the fact that he is a compulsive liar, a drunk and a gambler was of course not to the point). The fact that I wanted their approval so badly (because they were representing Jehovah as I believed) but couldn't get it, while I was sure I couldn't make any other decision was killing me. That started me thinking about my own responsibility in my live (my accountability as you name it). When I was ignored by the whole congregation (while I struggled with coming to the hall with my two small children and in 'good standing') it started it me thinking about the religion...

Digglina

P.S. Thank you for putting it so clearly (You are now being confronted with what everyone else has had to do their entire life: Choose for yourself - and then live with the choice.). That´s really helping me...

11

Excercising free will and trusting yourself

by digglina in

maybe you can help me think a little.. i'm not getting very far myself.... for the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'.

i've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc.

these are the things i came up with:.

digglina

Elsewhere:

That's great how you recognized the circular reasoning! Something to remember is that the vast majority of humans are born with the instinctive desire to do "good". The only problem is that "good" is not defined in that instinct! We are forced to learn from our environment what "good" is. This is why JWs feel it is "good" to shun a family member or to allow a person to bleed to death. Someone convinced them that these things are "good".

It all comes down to a very simple fact: Morality is defined by consensus of a population. If a population believes that human sacrifice is "good" then everyone will be happy when that happens. If a population believes that murder is wrong, then everyone will be angry when that happens.

Thank you for this great example (I couldn't see it on screen earlier...). This is excactly what I mean. In the end we are all deciding for ourselves what is good. Or we let our environment decide for us...

Sirona:

Feelings.Well. They cannot always be trusted, no. Sometimes I will go with my gut instinct, but more often I'll assess things logically and make decisions based on 1.Is it what I really want and need? 2.Will it hurt anyone else?I might find that it will hurt someone else, but then I have to consider if their stance is logical. For instance, my mother says "I am so hurt and upset that you left the JWs and I'll only be happy if you return".My opinion of that is that she made a choice to make herself unhappy based on something I did. Compare that with the pain I would cause someone if I were to destroy something dear to them, or if I were to take something from them (stealing) - in that case my conscience would not allow me to do something like this.

Thank you for your usefull comments Sirona. I think that where I said feeling I mostly ment intuition (with this I mean heart and ratio combined). I like the way you illustrate it with the questions you ask yourself and also the example of your mother. It is difficult sometimes to decide upon something which you know will be hurtful for someone you love, but it is not always something you have to take into account. You have your own responsibility in the end and so have others. I will also follow up on your suggestion to look into other religons. This is something I already discussed with one of my friends: she says there are still some pilars in the religion that make her decide to stay in there. I said to her: if you were in an other religion wouldn't there also be (different) pilars that would make you stay in there? How can a few rights undo so many wrongs?

Sixofnine:

My comment on your post would be that in the first half, you seem to have things pretty much figured out. In the second half, you seem to not be listening to yourself regarding what you've already figured out.

You may not be perfect, digglina, but you are certainly more decent and honest and intelligent than the group of insulated, power-loving, old men (and all their yes men) residing in Brooklyn bethel.

Thank you very much for your sweet respons. It makes me feel a lot better. And you're absolutely right. This is just my thing: I have to trust myself to rely upon my own judgement. But all your comments give me a lot of encouragement. And what I especially appreciate is that all your answers are logical. I'm a very rational person and I think being a JW made me even more rational. So I do need sound arguments to convince myself that this is the right way. The thought of life lying there open is nice though....

Digglina

11

Excercising free will and trusting yourself

by digglina in

maybe you can help me think a little.. i'm not getting very far myself.... for the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'.

i've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc.

these are the things i came up with:.

digglina

Thank you, Elsewhere!

The thing is, it's so hard to see whether or not my own motivation is pure and I mean, what is truth? How can we know, while we are only seeing things from our own perspective? Questions which are probably just too philosphical. Great minds have been thinking about truth and never found out what it was, so how can I possibly.

But, to be more practical, it is really hard to change. I would like to shout outloud: I DON'T BELIEVE IT ANYMORE! and YOU ARE ALL WRONG!, but the consequences are really big and I just have to be sure for myself first.

Something that also really shocked me by the way, was the fact that in the purple Kingdom Interlineair (English/Greek version) the name Jehovah isn't mentioned once! The evidence is right under your nose and you just don't see it. (It's like the recent history of JW's: I always kind of ignored it, because I already felt it didn't fit).

But now I'm having these fears and anxieties (althought I'm quiet a balanced person...) and it feels as if the reason lies in the fact that I cannot live like I would like to live. I'm a very straight forward person and it is difficult not to speak freely. My weak side is also that I have difficulty trusting my own judgement (and then feeling disappointed when I didn't go with it and it turned out wrong...). That doesn't come in very handy with this particular issue!! I recently read on this forum about someone who decided to leave within four months. I admire that and wonder: how can you be so sure so soon?

Any 'deprogramming' suggestions are welcome!

Digglina

11

Excercising free will and trusting yourself

by digglina in

maybe you can help me think a little.. i'm not getting very far myself.... for the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'.

i've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc.

these are the things i came up with:.

digglina

Maybe you can help me think a little.

I'm not getting very far myself...

For the last couple of months some things have changed in my live and this made me 'collide with the system'. I've been thinking, roaming the internet, looking into old books etc. These are the things I came up with:

- having these personal problems 'standard' phrases came popping into my head everytime. With every problem I had, every question I could think of, a scripture or WT sentence magically popped up. Was I brainwashed? Couldn't I think for myself anymore? What was I feeling?

- How can one excercise free will if threatened by disfellowshipping whenever one tries to act upon one's own conscience?

- If we cannot decide for ourselves how to walk straight, how can we make the right decision to serve God? This is a big issue to me. I mean, if we cannot think for ourselves how can we be sure JW is the right religion. A JW friend of mine is always saying that if we just try to live right, that we are no better than the 'wordly' people around us. The thing is: we aren't (of course). The mistake JW's make (I made) is that they think they are part of the only right way to live. They forget allong the way that they made that choice! In my perspective you have to trust your own feeling saying to you that you're right: pointing you towards religion or in any other way. God gave us a free will and we have to use it the right way. But if we cannot trust our own feeling or thinking how can we even choose the so-called right way to be a JW (just thinking from a JW perspective). So if you cannot listen to your gut feeling (and you can't because you have to listen to what you are taught to) how can you excercise free will?

other issues that made me think twice:

- old books with old explanations of prophecies, especially the ones that were trying to fit in recent JW history into the bible.

- WTBTS founded upon people who started out with just researching the bible for themselves and praying

- the changes in blood policy and thinking of how many lives that costed

- the UN membership and the fact that 'nobody' seems to know about that (thank God for the internet...)

and last but not least:

the unhappy people I see in the congretations nowadays, people who don't seem to have any control over their own lives. Maybe I'm projecting my own feelings now, but it seems as if many are just denying their own feelings because these don't fit into WT policy. It makes it impossible for individuals to develop in a natural way. It is taking away you're own responsibility, not only towards God, but also towards other people and, mostly, towards yourself.

So, where I end up with, after this possibly not very logically monologue, are the following ancient questions:

Can I decide not to be a JW anymore without being doomed?

Can I be the judge of my own life and how to live it?

Can I trust my own feelings and go with them?

Can I trust myself to put my trust in God and him to lead me to the right decisions and correct me if I'm wrong?

Can I decide that the WTBTS GB are just humans who are trying to the right thing but don't have to tell me how to live my life?

Please give me your thoughts on the above (if anymore explanation is required I'll be happy to elaborate...)

Digglina

13

digging in old books

by digglina in

i'm new on this board and currently an inactive jw.

although lurking for several months i only just registered.

i was wondering if any of you took the trouble of going through old books of the wtbts and if it made you come to any conclusions.

digglina

Thank you all for welcoming me!

Kid-A:

I was hoping that 'thy Kingdom come' would be in the box as well, but unfortunately it wasn't... I read about the piramids on this forum and I could heartly believe it! I do have 'Children' and 'Salvation' though and that's also pretty good. Thinkin' about al those people in 1939 who listened to the advise believing the end was near and didn't get married and/or didn't have children!

The thing I also meant to say with my example earlier, is that I was surprised how they already seemed to use the 'cover up prophesy method' from the beginning: using rev. to explain how bad the brothers were who didn't choose sides with the new regime after Russel died...

And also: their method of explaining the scriptures really got clear to me reading the part about Rom. 13:1. They got the whole bible involved and it didn't really make sense to me (although I would have problaby believed it when it would have been in a more recent issue... ) It made me think they could turn it any way they like.

Anyway, curious if any of you have more examples...