Posts by rassillon

i have been reading the bible with a new perspective for some time, i guess i identify with drew s from a lot of his comments sound like what i think.

i have been thinking about what i read without the wt influence and i would like to get ya'll's input on this scripture.. .

revelation 20 1-6. to me it seems to indicate that satan will be bound "first" then the ressurection of those to rule with christ for a thousand years.. also.

rassillon

Thanks for everyones comments,

For those who, to me, alluded that I was holding to WT teaching, let me assure I am not.

I have no faith in them nor their interpretation anymore.

I doubt they could even predict the outcome of a one ball lottery!

If in fact the book of Revelation does have any prophetic value I doubt anyone is going to understand it until after it has happened.

I don't think it is a vehicle for which to predict "the time of the end", when it starts, etc...

I just like reading the bible without "HAVING" to understand it a certain way and letting it speak for its self.

Sometime I try to read it from different perspectives such as, "I believe it is literal", "I believe it is fantasy", "I believe it is all happening now"

I am sure many of you have advanced far beyond me in my examination but thanks for indulging me!!

LEOLAIA - A special thanks to you for your input, your research is invaluable!, maybe you should have a 1 900 bible help line, you could charge 10 denari a minute!

cheers everyone and thanks again.

-r

22

Revelation 20 Question - Nark, Leolaia, Alan, Blondie, Drew, Others

by rassillon in

i have been reading the bible with a new perspective for some time, i guess i identify with drew s from a lot of his comments sound like what i think.

i have been thinking about what i read without the wt influence and i would like to get ya'll's input on this scripture.. .

revelation 20 1-6. to me it seems to indicate that satan will be bound "first" then the ressurection of those to rule with christ for a thousand years.. also.

I have been reading the bible with a new perspective for some time, I guess I identify with Drew S from a lot of his comments sound like what I think. I have been thinking about what I read without the WT influence and I would like to get ya'll's input on this scripture.

Revelation 20 1-6

To me it seems to indicate that Satan will be bound "first" THEN the ressurection of those to rule with Christ for a thousand years.

ALSO

It seems to indicate that those that rule will be ones actually killed for their beliefs.

Now these thoughts are not comprehensive of the bible as a whole but I thought I would get your thoughts on this.

Thanks,

-r

19

How many of you are still "active Witnesses"?

by exwitless in

i'm curious about some of you who post here and say that you attend jw meetings regularly.

what motivates you to post here, and does anyone in your congregation have any clue you're doing that?

rassillon

Me is still "active" Me still have wife in org. Me no go in fs for this many 3 (months) Me still turn in time. Me sick of org but me love wife. Me go now. -Mongo just pawn in game of life.

10

A conversation with my Mom.

by rassillon in

jw
friends

i had an interesting conversation with my mother.

i have spoken to her and my dad about the position i have taken before.

my parents are not like many witnesses that i have heard about from many of you.

rassillon

I had an interesting conversation with my mother. I have spoken to her and my dad about the position I have taken before. My parents are not like many witnesses that I have heard about from many of you. This is one of the things that made it hard for me to believe many of the horror stories which I have read. My parents still talk with my brother who has been DFd 3 times and never did the whole your going to die at the big A with my other brothers who never did anything about the so called "truth". My dad went worldly for many years when I was young but got straight when I was about 13/14 (20 years now) and most of my spiritual instruction came from my mom who is a studyaholic and quite handy with the bible.

Anyway, my parents allow me to express my concerns without branding me an apostate and are very reasonable, infact they express their love and concern over anything else since I have made my views known. But when talking to my mom the other day I tried to explain to her how I got to my current state of thinking. As I explained she listened and then when I got to the explaination about 607-587-1914-1918-1919, she told me that, that was not important to her ( I am paraphrasing here), I explained that it was of utmost importance because it is the reason that the WT claims authority. I said if they really had authority from GOD that I would accept the other things but if they didn't there was no reason for me to accept their pecuilar teachings.

Well, after a long nice conversation with her she agreed that she understood "why" I had my concerns but the reasons "607 etal" were not really important to her.

I just thought that was interesting.

As a side note I am not really interested in extracating my parents from the org. since they are old and it works for them. They are active in the ministry and it gives the something to do and people to talk to. They do not suffer from being oppressed or anything and are just really nice (to everyone but each other that is, lol) seeing old people argue is funny.

This was a really long conversation and I reasoned many different ways, so please don't post "You should have said XYZ"

thought I would tell you guys since I can't tell anyone around here.

-r

64

What top sientist say about 9/11

by jimbo in

jw
friends

interesting or not?

use your free thinking.

p;ease reply... .. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=403757&in_page_id=1770 .

rassillon

What is a "sientist", anyway?

About the only governments I know of who would be willing to murder 3000 of it's own people would be Iran, "Former Iraq", "Former Afganistan".

The US.....uh, no. I know a lot of people let their hate of Bush convince them that this administration is capable of some really horrible and STUPID things.

I don't agree with all of what Bush does but I don't for one minute think his administration would be capable of doing something as heinous as suggested. And if you want to bring up Dick Cheny shooting his friend, well he was a lawyer so it doesn't count. ;)

-r

20

The ZERO Year.....red herring?

by rassillon in

i have been researching and studying the 607/587/1914 thing for a while now.

not nearly as knowlegeable as leolaia alanf, etal.....

but, even though i have learned to question almost everything, i haven't really questioned the assertion that russell did not realize there was no zero year.

rassillon

Awesom Alan, Thanks for the schoolin' ;) I see it now, I guess I had gotten myself confused. I really need to get all my notes in some sort of order. I have been really trying to question all aspects of this subject and I think I just got my head up my own a**. lol With your help and the help of the Good Lord and a long handled fork I have gotten back to where I started with this zero year thing. Thanks also for the extended explanation of the change fiasco. To everyone else, VM JWfacts etal...thanks and I really am not stupid but I do play stupid on TV! If any of you are ever in houston, let me know and I will buy you a beer! cheers, -r

4

WTB&TS Governing Body - culpability

by rassillon in

just thought this article was interesting.

*** g79 7/8 pp.

27-28 what is involved in appointment by holy spirit?

rassillon

Just thought this article was interesting

***

g79 7/8 pp. 27-28 What Is Involved in ‘Appointment by Holy Spirit’? ***

The

Bible’s View

What

Is Involved in ‘Appointment by Holy Spirit’?

"PAY attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son." (Acts 20:28) The apostle Paul directed these words to the elders of the Ephesus congregation when he met with them at Miletus, a city on the west coast of Asia Minor.

By reason of his evangelizing work under the direction of God’s holy spirit, Paul, with the aid of faithful associates, was instrumental in establishing many new congregations. Personally he could not care for all these congregations but needed the aid of spiritually qualified men who could act as shepherds and teachers of their fellow believers.

Since the apostle and his companions in the evangelizing work had the spirit of God resting upon them, they were able to discern who among the brothers had the necessary spiritual qualifications for being overseers or elders. As Jesus Christ had spent much time in prayer before choosing the 12 apostles, Paul and his associates prayed before making final selection of those whom they appointed to serve as elders. Through prayer, they sought the guidance of the holy spirit. (Luke 6:12, 13; compare Acts 6:6.) The actual appointing was done by means of a symbolic act. Paul and others who were already elders laid their hands on those who would start rendering special service in the congregation. (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6) This served to impress on the men designated to serve that their appointment was through spirit-directed men. Because those making the appointments had the spirit of God and sought divine direction, elders were appointed by holy spirit. In our day, men involved in making recommendations and appointments seek to be guided by the spirit-inspired counsel set forth at 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 1 Peter 5.

In view of the fact that humans are involved in the appointment of elders, there is a possibility of choosing an unqualified man to serve, for humans are not able to read the heart. That is why the apostle Paul cautioned Timothy: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others; preserve yourself chaste." (1 Tim. 5:22) If he had acted prematurely in appointing an elder, Timothy would have had to bear a measure of responsibility for whatever wrongs such an unqualified man committed.

Today, too, the matter of sharing in the sins of others needs to be given due consideration before any man is chosen to serve as an overseer.

We should never forget that the congregation is God’s, purchased with the blood of his Son. Therefore, if there be any mistreatment of the flock, the men responsible as well as those who shared in choosing unqualified persons will have an accountability with the Most High, who purchased the flock at great cost to himself. So men having any share in the making of appointments need to be very conscientious in letting themselves be guided by God’s Word and his spirit.

Members of the congregation rightly follow the lead of faithful spirit-appointed overseers. This is in harmony with the inspired counsel: "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."—Heb. 13:17.

However, it should be noted that, when Paul spoke to the elders of the Ephesus congregation, he was not stressing the attitude of the congregation toward the elders. Rather, the elders were being reminded that, by reason of their appointment by holy spirit, they were accountable to the Source of that spirit for their actions. They were under obligation to follow the lead of God’s spirit in discharging their responsibilities in the right manner and with the proper attitude.

Paul’s own example forcefully illustrates what it means for a man to recognize that he has been appointed by holy spirit. The apostle Paul saw to it that he imparted "all the counsel of God," not holding back anything that was vital to a person’s acting in a divinely approved way. Never did the apostle use his position to further selfish ambition or to gain money or possessions from the brothers whom he served as a humble slave. Though he deeply appreciated voluntary material assistance, Paul did not seek such. He labored with his own hands to get the necessities of life. The apostle spent himself completely in behalf of his brothers, devoting both days and nights to encourage them. So great was his love for them that he was not ashamed to shed tears in their presence while admonishing them. Because he loved his brothers, Paul remained firm for what was right, not holding back in giving strong reproof when necessary.—Acts 20:27-35; compare 1 Corinthians 4:21; 5:1-13.

The manner in which the apostle dealt with believers at Ephesus was not an exception. It was the way in which he customarily discharged his obligations as a shepherd. For example, to Christians at Thessalonica, he could write:

"At no time have we turned up either with flattering speech, (just as you know) or with a false front for covetousness, God is witness! Neither have we been seeking glory from men, no, either from you or from others, though we could be an expensive burden ["be on our dignity," marginal reading] as apostles of Christ. To the contrary, we became gentle ["babes," marginal reading] in the midst of you, as when a nursing mother cherishes her own children. So, having a tender affection for you, we were well pleased to impart to you, not only the good news of God, but also our own souls, because you became beloved to us."—1 Thess. 2:5-8.

Members of Christian congregations today have no difficulty in cooperating with elders who seek to imitate the Christlike pattern of the apostle Paul. Such elders have no desire for glory but are genuinely interested in slaving for their brothers. They are neither a financial burden to their fellow believers nor a burden by insisting on their own "dignity," assuming a superior air toward other members of the congregation. They are "gentle," yes, as unassuming "babes" among their brothers, not lording it over anyone. Like a nursing mother who puts the interests of her child ahead of her own interests, such elders are willing to expend themselves fully within the framework of their limitations.

Faithful elders realize that a failure to labor unselfishly for the congregation would mean proving false to their appointment by holy spirit, for the spirit produces love, an unselfish interest in the welfare of others. Thus, appointment by holy spirit involves a selection of qualified men under the guidance of the spirit as well as a recognition of accountability to the Source of the spirit.

20

The ZERO Year.....red herring?

by rassillon in

i have been researching and studying the 607/587/1914 thing for a while now.

not nearly as knowlegeable as leolaia alanf, etal.....

but, even though i have learned to question almost everything, i haven't really questioned the assertion that russell did not realize there was no zero year.

rassillon

VM,

I feel like I am having a brain fart.
-r