Posts by lovelylil

115

Are you tired of the whole atheist/believer debate?

by nicolaou in

i'm usually the first one to stir this particular pot but it get's so frustrating to keep coming up against the same old arguments.

the phrase "banging your head against a brick wall" springs to mind.

how many times have believers argued for a designer but refused to answer the obvious question of the designer's origin?.

lovelylil

startingover,

Thanks so much for sharing that link with me. It would make sense that you, having been raised in a religion like the JWs from childhood would feel different than others. This is a good point you have brought out. Although I know others who were raised witnesses that feel called to follow Christ, it is different with everyone.

One thing that saved my spirituality and that of my children is that I had a belief in God and Christ prior to becoming a witness. I knew that he was not the God of the WT who is always looking to punish and destroy. But rather is a good God who is ready to forgive and save. I taught myself biblical things starting at the age of 12. I had prayed since I was practically in diapers and I can't really explain why. Except to say that I personally always felt drawn to a God (higher power). You would think I would never be part of a cult but I really feel duped in my case. I asked a lot of hard questions and not all where the Witnesses able to answer. But, I have always been the type to feel anyone who is God-fearing and loves Jesus should be accepted by me. That is one very hard lesson I have learned. Just because someone appears to be harmless, does not make it so. I think many feel the same way about the JWs, that they are misled, but essentially harmless. That is really the whole evilness behind cults like that. No one in their right mind would join if they really knew what they were getting into.

Also, the fact that everyone was putting on a show (love bombing), I did not realize the truth until after my baptism. It was not long after that I realized that the "spirit" of the whole organization was not Christ like, and therefore, I did not want any part of it. It took a long, long time thought to get out. My hubby who had no religion prior to the JWs, had a much harder time to get out. My kids followed me as I was the one who taught them spiritual things and never taught them the same God of the WT. I never really lost my faith because I realized my mistake was trusting an org. But most of my life in just walking by the teachings of Jesus, I did much better spiritually.

Whether you believe in the Bible or not, a lot of Christs teachings have good benefits for mankind. ( but so does the teachings of other peaceful leaders) And I am thankful I never believed their lies about a mass destruction of mankind. How they can reconcile that with "God is Love" is beyond me. You have probably guessed by now that I was not a very popular JW. My view were very uncommon. And I recieved much persecution in the tower for them.

I am very sorry for the harm done to you and others. My heart really goes out to you. I don't believe everyone will become a Christian nor do they have too. The bible was written only for those who feel compelled to follow Jesus. No one else. Why would his teachings be for others who do not want to be foot step followers of him? My personal belief is that God will not let things continue forever and he will destroy all the religious institutions that man has created and that do not teach the truth about him, including the Watchtower Organization. Then at that time, all mankind will know the truth. Again, this is my belief because I DO believe in God, I cannot speak for anyone else.

Whether you are a believer or not, everyone deserves to live free and in peace.

44

Comments from "30 Years a Watchtower Slave" that surprised me.....

by AK - Jeff in

i had begun to read schnell's book when we first left - but in the 'fresh out of the borg' mental state, i had found it too caustic.

now i am reading it and find it quite interesting due to the time frame - in judge rutherford's era.. one of the premises that he states repeatedly in the book, took me by surprise.

i would be curious if any could confirm/deny the reality of his accusations here.

lovelylil

Jeff,

Good points.

115

Are you tired of the whole atheist/believer debate?

by nicolaou in

i'm usually the first one to stir this particular pot but it get's so frustrating to keep coming up against the same old arguments.

the phrase "banging your head against a brick wall" springs to mind.

how many times have believers argued for a designer but refused to answer the obvious question of the designer's origin?.

lovelylil

startingover,

Let me for the sake of not getting into another debate about whether God exists just say this: I should say that IF you believe in God, you do NOT have to dismss evolution. Many who feel you do, have not studied evolution at all and the overwelming evidence that supports it. So IF you believe in GOD, I feel YOU can still reconcile the two beliefs.

And yes, I personally believe there is an intelligence behind creation and any principles in evolution. I CHOOSE to say it is God, someone else may not feel compfortable in doing so. And I have no problem with that at all.

No, I was not raised a JW. My parents were Catholic and father was the most immoral person you could ever know. He commited horrible acts of attrocities on his kids in the name of God. But, I don't blame God for it - and I will not go into why.

I agree with Narkissos that in a society where he majority believe in a higher power, the morals standard is usually higher. But my point was that there are moral people who are athiests and immoral people who are Christians. Since I believe in God, I believe the Bible when it says that God gave all people a moral compass to judge right from wrong. And even though some are not believers, they are guided by this compass.

53

The CO is coming and BOY is he loving!

by MinisterAmos in

i guess next week will mark the co visit at my congo.

should be loads of fun for all since last time he publicly humiliated and literally tongue lashed the yoots for dressing worldly and the moms for letting their children cry.. the 20 something guys had the audacity to wear flashy ties and dark shirts, the baby room was being used by a korean book study and it was raining outside.

wtf were the moms supposed to do with their kids when there was literally no place to put them.. something that i found very interesting was that i was exempt from the flashy tie and dark shirt thing even though i made it a point to stand in front of him and take off my coat while discussing the down pour after the meeting.

lovelylil

LDH,

How can you say that your poor old aunts fear is something she is enjoying. She obviously is not enjoying it. People like that are held captive by their fears. I could agree with Danny though about it being a stockholm syndrome type thing. But I think you should pity your aunt if anything and others like her. The WT is purely EVIL because they clealy take advantage of people like your poor aunt. I feel bad for her especially since she is elderly. But it is clear, she is not enjoying this at all. Unfortunately no one has freed her mind yet of the false belief that the WT org. is God's mouthpiece. This is the thing I hate most about organized religion - the fear they put in people. I am going to pray for your poor aunt. I really hope she has peace one day.

15

Why was Jesus not a convince Christ to..........

by Spectrum in

.... the majority of jews that were expecting him according to their own religious text and tradition but extremely convincing to those that had no clue of judaism ie gentiles?

what was it that the citizens of the greco-roman world was missing that they would grasp at this vague character as a saviour even though ironically had died on a cross like a criminal?

how many of us today (60 years after his murder) would believe that gandhi was the son of god had he or his followers made that claim?

lovelylil

For all you Bible Believers out there:

In Romans chapters 9,10,11,12 The Apostle Paul addresses all the issues about the Jews and the fact that they were God's Holy Nation and he favored them among the nations, but still they did not believe Christ was the Messiah. This event was prophesied by Isaiah, the Prophet. I agree with Auldsoul that it did have to do with Jesus not being the Messiah They wanted but there is much more to it than that. It seems that God hardened their hearts to not believe in the Christ because he had a plan to save ALL mankind by their unbelieving. These chapters listed above explain it much better than I can. Hope this helps.

53

The CO is coming and BOY is he loving!

by MinisterAmos in

i guess next week will mark the co visit at my congo.

should be loads of fun for all since last time he publicly humiliated and literally tongue lashed the yoots for dressing worldly and the moms for letting their children cry.. the 20 something guys had the audacity to wear flashy ties and dark shirts, the baby room was being used by a korean book study and it was raining outside.

wtf were the moms supposed to do with their kids when there was literally no place to put them.. something that i found very interesting was that i was exempt from the flashy tie and dark shirt thing even though i made it a point to stand in front of him and take off my coat while discussing the down pour after the meeting.

lovelylil

LDH,

I don't think any in the WT enjoy being abused but rather in their quest to serve God, they have totally lost all their senses and opened themselves up for abuse. I know I made this mistake too, even though I am a very intelligent and educated person. I was thinking recently that just because I agreed with some things I learned from the Witnesses, I automatically accepted everything they said. Also, why did I not question the whole Anointed Governing Body thing more? Why would I take the word of people I never met? I think I, like others, felt it was the right thing and went about it with total abandon, which is never a good idea. Now, I question everything. Good lesson learned!

24

Special Talk 4/30/06- Your thoughts on it-Jehovah being in Control

by architect in

from what it sounded like the special talk was another whose side are you on jehovah's or satans.. from the beginning the speaker said there is no new information!

he said "if youre not for jehovah then youre for satan- case closed!".

he also mentioned that jehovah has always had control of his creation!

lovelylil

So glad I am out of the Org. and missed it. I feel sorry for those still in, they must feel totally trapped. Poor friends.

44

Is There Any JW Belief That You Still Believe In?

by minimus in

jw
friends

would you have any qualms about taking blood??

do you believe in a paradise earth?

do you think there is only one "truth"?

lovelylil

Undercover,

You reminded me and I guess there are two more things I agree with:

No hellfire

No trinity - but I do believe Christ is divine

9

Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 30-04-06 Church Sermon

by scout575 in

"but the same day that lot went out of sodom it rained fire and sulphur from heaven, and destroyed them all.

even thus shall it be on the day when the son of man is revealed.

" ( luke 17: 29, 30 ).

lovelylil

Hi Tea for Two,

Here is some info. that may help. If you have other questions please email me, o.k.

First off - the WT is wrong when they limit the bride or heavenly class as being 144,000. The scriptures show that the great crowd is heavenly. They will be the rulers upon thrones and servants of God in his temple. (heavenly that is). I can email you scriptures later on.

2nd - The purpose of the gospel age is calling these Christians (the bride or church) out of the world, figuratively and baptizing them in the name of Christ. The Bible says taking "a people out for his name" that name is Christains. The calling to be Christians of the Church happens when we hear the true gospel of Christ. Upon recieving the gospel and believing it, then being moved to symbolize it in baptism, we are accepting the invitation to be sons of God.(the Jews were invited first, the gentiles second) Once you accept this invitation, then you will recieve confromation later on if you are accepted as a "son of God" . Paul says we are given a deposit of the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence that you have been excepted into this new covenant. In other words - you are a spirit child of God - Anointed.

3rd - Not all claiming to be Christians and are baptized are in this group and have the Holy Spirit. ONLY those with the Holy Spirit indwelling will be given the change to a new nature. It is evident not all claiming to be Christians has it by their works. you must have works showing you have it See Galatians 5 - fruit of the spirit and also Paul explains how you KNOW you are one who is spirit begotten in Romans Chapter 8. Now this does not mean you will be perfect, you will still sin, but slowly you will become more Christ Like each day.

4th - It would make sense that not all baptized christians are spirit begotten because many are baptized for the wrong reason, whether it be as infants, due to family pressure, or fear of destruction, this last one being the one Religions use today to bring people into their org. Usually those who are truly spirit begotten and are showing evidence as Paul brings out, are in a relationship with Christ because they WANT to be. Not for a reward or fear but because THEY heard the message about him and truly LOVE him! They consider everything else in life a LOSS for the gain of being one day with their Master, Christ Jesus.

Lastly, we are NEVER to judge any that feel they are spirit begotten because the Lord only knows who belong to him. Can some claim this and be wrong, yes. But it is not up to us to decide. Any who claim this hope, we should accept at their word.

The parable of the wheat and weeds shows that both groups - (true Christians who are spirit-anointed and those who are not) will grow alongside each other until the harvest. We are not in the Harvest yet as this work is done by Angels. In the Harvest, Christ with the Angels will seperate them and then the true sons of God will be revealed. Next, Christ will turn his attention to the rest of the Nations of unbelievers. Hope this helps. You can email me anytime.

10

Looking for input on the "Rapture" doctrine...

by Jamelle in

saw a documentary on tv this weekend about it.

have heard about the "left behind" series of books that deal with this belief.. one thing that caught my attention about the belief in the rapture was that it seemed very dark.

it seems to focus more on the scary things that are talked about in revelation than the message of peace and love that i admire in the teachings of christ.. the other thing that bothered me is that it seemed similar to the witnesses in that you have to be "saved" or you are going to die.

lovelylil

Just for the record, Daniel also prophesied about multitudes of dead being raised from the grave at one time. See Daniel 12:2, and the righteous being glorified. Also Paul again speaks of this happening in 1Corinthians 15:51-54.

The early diciples and Apostles had a hope of being raised with Christ and glorified also. This is all the hope they list all thru-out the NT. So it is not just one scripture. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians uses almost the same words as he did in his letter to the Thessalonians showing this same hope. Which is for the dead believers and the believers alive at Christ's coming to be raised to be with Christ together. This is a biblical teaching.

The only thing that does not appear in the Bible is the Literal Word "Rapture".

I am just trying to explain where the Rapture belief came from biblically. I am not debating whether it is a true belief or not. I guess it only is if you believe the Bible. If you don't believe it, then it obviously does not apply to you anyway.