I think you answered your own question. It's a delicious-looking carrot they're hanging out there on the end of their fishing line. It's just that when you get up close you realize it's a wax vegetable.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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17
Why did I answer YES ?
by Free indid anyone answer the question like i did ?
my gut always said no but my heart said yes.
i wanted to believe in living forever like in those dam pictures, i wanted to be building those houses and hanging out with people on grassy mountain sides and have a freaking lion that would never rip my head off and that i could wrestle with.
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under_believer
I eventually reads Raymond Franz's book a few days ago....and if anything it sounded to me the views of a bitter old man....His words to me seemed immature. He descibed a few faults with the WTS, which is no more than saying to someone....you only scored 98% percent in an exam...so let me concentrate on the 2% percent you did wrong. For me...it is a reason for staying a JW if he can only produce so much little 'dirt' from the top.
I also am calling BS on this statement. This reads like a classic dismissal of the work without having read it. If you are willing to cite a specific statement that you felt was bitter or immature, or if you are willing to back up your "98% good, 2% bad assertion" with objective things that you think are good and bad, or if you're willing to discuss the specific things that Franz mentions and why you feel they can be so easily dismissed as "little," why then I'll believe you read it. I'm calling your bluff and asking you to put your money where your mouth is.
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Shunned - but still friends?
by GermanXJW inyesterday, we got an email from our former best friends (for about 15years).
they never told us directly that they are going to shun us but just did not phone any more.
now, there was a reason to email them because we had a not jw related question.
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under_believer
It's classic Orwellian doublethink. No single publication--not Crisis of Conscience, not Hassan's brainwashing works, nothing has been so instructive for me in recognizing what is wrong with the Society than 1984. In this case, we are dealing with doublethink, which is when two contradictory concepts are both held to be equally true.
The person who supports the disfellowshipping arrangement, in its classic Witness sense, believes the contradictory concepts that
- One should completely reject a person who is guilty of a crime, treating them as though they are dead and as though they no longer exist.
- Treating a person in this manner is an expression of deep love, one of the most profoundly loving things that can be done.
This is one of many examples of Witness doublethink, many of which revolve around love. These are arrived at because of a combination of bizzare Witness-specific Biblical interpretations, and honest problems that anyone will have who tries to reconcile the New Testament's message of love with the Old Testament's message of judgement. The thought process usually goes like this:
- The New Testament says that God is love.
- The Old Testament says that God destroyed an entire city, including babies, women, children, and the elderly, because there were some homosexuals there. Nor will these be resurrected.
- Therefore, destroying an entire city, including babies, women, children, and the elderly, must be an act of love.
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18
Whats up with Witnesses being allowed to VOTE now?
by runningrussianboy ini read somewhere that jw's can vote now?
it was in a kingdom ministry a few years back.
i remember being told that voting for anything but jehovah was a sin.
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under_believer
Well, I recently decided to call their bluff on that. I read that article, decided it was saying voting was a conscience matter, and registered. I will be voting in the next elections to come my way.
We'll see if they really meant it. -
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Thinking out the box - how long did it take you?
by jambon1 inwhen i studied, i believed it all.
you know, not only the new system stuff but all the things relating to how bad 'wordly education' is, elders deserve our unequivocal support, apostates are evil, etc etc.
it must have been about 2 years into my love afair with the org that i began to have serious misgivings about the conduct of elders.
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under_believer
This question will have the most meaning for those who came into the truth as a Bible Study, but I'll take a crack at it, even though I was "raised in."
My first questioning started when I was around 8, and started learning more about the animal world. The "promises" that the Witnesses claim Isaiah was making, about lions laying down with lambs, poisonous snakes, etc, just didn't make any sense to my young mind. That would be the first of many many instances of thinking outside the box.
Of course I kept this all to myself, and now I'm an adult and still nominally "in," so I guess all of the thinking outside the box in the world won't help you if you're too cowardly to do anything about it. -
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Crisis of Conscience quotes and publications needed
by Calliope inso i've basically apostasized to a wit-friend who thinks i'm spiritually lost (i've been deliberately fading for nearly a year).
she has invited me to share with her my questions and doubts (i didn't confirm that my questions had already been answered or that all my doubts have been dispelled) in attempt to provide me with evidence.
the only one i have shared thus far is about 607bce.
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under_believer
Hey Terry, if I send you money, will you stop throwing all the crazy formatting into your posts?
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Did the elders ever blackmail you with dead loved ones?
by Fleshybirdfodder inthis is kind of a sensitive subject for me, but i had to get it off my chest.
when i was eighteen my father died suddenly of a heart attack, and i started drifting from depression.
i wasn't doing anything wrong, i was just in shock and started really questioning my beliefs.
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under_believer
my dad wouldnt look at my baby as 'it was as good as dead already' so there was no point getting attached.
Holy crap! That is the worst thing I have ever heard. I am so sorry to hear that.
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Did the elders ever blackmail you with dead loved ones?
by Fleshybirdfodder inthis is kind of a sensitive subject for me, but i had to get it off my chest.
when i was eighteen my father died suddenly of a heart attack, and i started drifting from depression.
i wasn't doing anything wrong, i was just in shock and started really questioning my beliefs.
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under_believer
The elders never used that on me. But the Society has. They are the ones that train the elders to do that.
It's one of the most manipulative and wicked things they do. This prevent Witnesses from having a realistic view of death. It prevents them from grieving properly. It devalues life; no need to put such an emphasis on preserving life when the resurrection is there. And it is of course a method of control, pushing emotional buttons that should be verboten, at a person's very most vulnerable time. -
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WERE THERE ANY `YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS,MAN' moments in KH
by badboy indid something say something like that po who said`cats represent the beast' so you shouldn't stroke them'
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under_believer
I wonder where that elder got his ideas about condoms about?
It's a common fundie concept and not limited to Witnesses, though I have no doubt the Society would quote from them. See this Jack Chick tract for a non-Witness reference about how HIV can "slip through" condoms. Also see Focus on the Family, possibly the #1 American purveyor of FUD about sex.
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under_believer
Bravo, Elsewhere.