under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  30

  Question: If you don't believe the wts as truth why still in FS?

  by hambeak in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am puzzled, i see a lot of new posts from supposedly active jw's passing out new tract and don't believe it.

  i can understand still attending meetings especially if family is still involved.

  why not just fade away?

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  under_believer

  My question too, hambeak. I still attend (for family reasons) but I can't bring myself to go knockin'. It's just too hypocritical.
  
  Everyone's family situation is different, though. My wife can accept that, on conscience grounds, I can't go out in service anymore. Other people's spouses or parents may not be of such a sanguine disposition.
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  11

  Back

  by Buttters in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am back.

  i don't know what happened but i was deleted the other day.

  simon is checking into the problem.

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  under_believer

  You just posted yesterday. I can still see your posting history. How could you have been "deleted" the other day?
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  16

  The Bible's Candid Nature as a Proof of Divine Inspiration

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the proofs the witnesses (and others) use as proof of the bible's divinely inspired nature is its supposed candor in exposing israel's and others' flaws.

  if it were written by men, the argument goes, they would have hidden their failures, inadequacies, and weaknesses.

  so, we see moses taking credit for producing water from the crag; we see all of the israelite kings who "did what was bad in the eyes of yahweh.

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  under_believer

  One of the proofs the Witnesses (and others) use as proof of the Bible's divinely inspired nature is its supposed candor in exposing Israel's and others' flaws. If it were written by men, the argument goes, they would have hidden their failures, inadequacies, and weaknesses. So, we see Moses taking credit for producing water from the crag; we see all of the Israelite kings who "did what was bad in the eyes of Yahweh." We see Jonah disregarding God's command and heading in the exact opposite direction of his commission.
  
  However, there is (at least) one flaw in this theory. The flaw is that we assume that the traditionally accepted writer is the actual writer. I guess if Moses really wrote the Pentateuch, then it might be convincing that he lays bare his own flaws in so stark a manner... but this doesn't really follow if someone else wrote it as a carefully crafted morality tale designed to motivate people or develop religious control.
  
  Many Biblical scholars now believe that much of the Torah was written after the Jewish civil war that split the kingdom, mostly by priests, as condemnations of the priesthood class of the rival nation. It would make sense, then, that a lot of the text is condemnatory of the practices of the rivals--thing like the Commandment that forbids molten images. Israel used a full on golden calf as the symbol of their worship, whereas Judah had gold-plated cherubs in the temple. The cherubs, though obvious images, were not molten and therefore didn't violate the commandment.
  
  In any case, I disagree that the Bible's "candor" is proof of its divine inspiration, with or without the above hypothesizing. What do you think?
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  39

  Can Someone Explain Horror Movies?

  by onesong in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i try to be open minded and not judge anything but when i see these movie commercials----.

  i think it was saw iii or something, all this blood, gore, shrieking and grotesque violence, all i can do is ask with a sense of awe --why?

  why would someone want to watch that?.

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  under_believer

  For me it's all about the zombies. I can't really explain it but zombies are awesome. A recently good zombie movie (that actually had a point to make, as well) was 28 Days Later. I recommend, as long as you don't mind seeing people (sort of people) get shot, hacked to death with machetes, de-eyeballed, etc.
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  41

  Breaking my silence

  by dawgfan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am a long time lurker (almost 2 years) but first time poster.

  even though you didn't know me before now, i feel like i have known a lot of you for quite a while.

  from my time viewing jwd, i have learned many things and have felt like sometimes that you were talking directly to me.

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  under_believer

  On my side of the equation is all the missed time we could have had together to work out our problems that was instead spent in "Jehovah's" service rather than with me and on her side is me not being able to go to the meetings with her and be her spiritual "Head".

  That is an excellent point, actually--while the WTS didn't directly break up your marriage, there's no question that there is an indirect negative effect.
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  31

  How long before the Society's growth goes negative?

  by BurnTheShips in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems that growth just slows and slows.

  http://home.zonnet.nl/rsingelenberg/web-images/graphs/stats_05/annualgrowth_05.htm i suspect if it was not for hispanic immigration the us would have been negative for a long time now!

  i go to a spanish congregation and i hear the english bros always say how there is no growth any more.

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  under_believer

  Worldwide, it could be decades. Religion is on a huge upswing in Africa and the global South. I work with a Mormon dude and apparently they're experiencing huge growth in South America just like the Witnesses.
  
  In Western, first-world nations, I would expect sustained zero growth before 2010.
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  25

  Violence disguised as comedy

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lately, here in ottawa, there is a tv ad for a comedy show.

  it has a "teacher" in front of a 3 student class.

  the teacher says that when he asks a question everyone should put up their hand.

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  under_believer

  Sounds dumb. What show is it for?
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  41

  Breaking my silence

  by dawgfan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am a long time lurker (almost 2 years) but first time poster.

  even though you didn't know me before now, i feel like i have known a lot of you for quite a while.

  from my time viewing jwd, i have learned many things and have felt like sometimes that you were talking directly to me.

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  under_believer

  dawgfan, welcome to the board. I'm truly sorry to hear your story.
  
  I do want to point out that your wife is not a particularly good Witness. She was breaking the rules when she married you; and believe it or not, she's also breaking the rules when she leaves you, too. The Witnesses encourage people in mixed marriages to tough it out--they quote scripture implying that by being good spouses, these Witnesses can win their unbelieving mates over to the religion. People who pull this off are often held up as examples.
  
  So while it's heartbreaking to hear your story, I don't think it's accurate for anyone to characterize it as the Watchtower Society splitting your marriage up. As Garybuss says, it's a marital problem, not a religious one.
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  39

  How Would You Refute JW's Claim Of Being The ONLY True Religion?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since the new tract tells us "the end of false religion is near!

  ", jehovah's witnesses maintain that they alone are the only true religion.

  how would you dispute that??

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  under_believer

  Easy, minimus. In that tract, they have three bullet points on what constitutes false religion. One of them is something akin to "spreads/promotes false teachings."
  
  The Society has demonstrably and self-admittedly promoted false teachings many times in their past. It's easy for anyone to find examples and even most rank and file Witnesses are aware of this.
  
  By their own definition, for the entire period of their past up until the very last doctrinal change, they have been a false religion.
  
  Unless we are to assume that they have everything right now, and that there will be no more doctrinal changes (something nobody, not even a Governing Body member, would be willing to bet the farm on) then they continue to be potentially a false religion by their own definition.
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  7

  Best Method for Searching JWD?

  by JW_Researcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  best method for searching jwd?.

  i have used the google option found on the boardand have used google via a site:www.jehovahs-witness.com [topic] command.. i am fairly certain that i am missing some posts as i remember reading posts and then am unable to locate them later.. any suggestions are appreciated.. thank you..

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  under_believer

  You could also try Yahoo, which can do domain searches. Although I typically prefer Google's results for general web searches, Yahoo seems to do a better job with some domain-specific searches. Here's a sample:
  under_believer