under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  28

  The joy of being on a JW email list

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's offensive little gem: .

  these are funny for when you are in a fiesty mood!a new way to handle those pesky little "conversation stoppers".

  1) 'i'm not interested'.

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  under_believer

  Justitia that's... that's just appalling.
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  28

  The joy of being on a JW email list

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's offensive little gem: .

  these are funny for when you are in a fiesty mood!a new way to handle those pesky little "conversation stoppers".

  1) 'i'm not interested'.

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  under_believer

  This email came to us different ways. I got it from an elder in our congregation; she got it from that elder's grown-up daughter. It was the daughter she told off (though in a polite way, since they're friends.)
  
  I will not respond to the elder who sent it to me. They are already watching me because I don't go out in service.
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  19

  New study calls "Jehovah's protective hygiene laws" into serious question

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anybody remember this favorite witness concept?

  the mosaic laws were basically perfect, the theory goes.

  one evidence of this perfection was the fact that the hygenic requirements harmonize with current science, were obviously better than what everyone else at the time was practicing, and resulted in great health benefits for the israelites.

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  under_believer

  Anybody remember this favorite Witness concept? The Mosaic Laws were basically perfect, the theory goes. One evidence of this perfection was the fact that the hygenic requirements harmonize with current science, were obviously better than what everyone else at the time was practicing, and resulted in great health benefits for the Israelites. This theory is extrapolated out to support WTS control of the flock: by the same token, they say, the current requirements for Christians (read: rules made up by the Society) are a protection for Witnesses. This is also sometimes used as a proof of divine authorship.

  Here are some sightings:

  (Deuteronomy 23:12-13)

  12 And a private place should be at your service outside the camp, and you must go out there. 13 And a peg should be at your service along with your implements, and it must occur that when you squat outside, you must also dig a hole with it and turn and cover your excrement.

  *** g04 4/8 p. 11 Moses—How His Life Affects You ***
  
  The Law of Moses also contained concepts of hygiene and disease control, such as the quarantining of sick people and the disposal of human waste, that harmonize with current science. (Leviticus 13:1-59; 14:38, 46; Deuteronomy 23:13) This is remarkable considering that much of Egyptian medicine in Moses’ day was a dangerous mixture of quackery and superstition. In developing lands today, millions could be spared from disease and death if the standards of hygiene taught by Moses were practiced.

  Well, it just happens that, thousands of years after those Mosaic laws were ostensibly laid down by God Almighty, the Essenes revived and practiced these extreme hygenic requirements. Religiously, one might say. This is a well documented fact: Surviving Roman documents and also Josephus corroborate this story.

  What we've been lacking, though, is any evidence of what it did for the Essenes, healthwise. Until now.

  A multinational team of biblical scholars, paleopathologists, and parasitologists have done an analysis of Roman-era latrines found by the ancient settlement of Qumran, in the Dead Sea area. You can find the entire article here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061113180523.htm.

  In short, though, the results aren't looking very good for the Essenes. You should read the whole press release, but I'll break it down for you here:

  1. All males in the camp go outside to this same latrine to go poop.
  2. They bury their poop, instead of leaving it on the surface, which means that it doesn't get broken down by the sun and wind, but instead the bacteria and parasite eggs in all human feces are preserved by a nice layer of topsoil.
  3. Various germs and nasties inevitably leech up through the soil onto the surface.
  4. Guys who are barefoot or in Jesusboots walk through this contaminated soil.
  5. Some of them have cuts or scratches on their feet. The bugs jump into these walking disease vectors. Already each person who was infected in such a way is in trouble--but that's not all.
  6. Now, add the fact that there's no running water, and communal bathing practices where these nasty bacteria can breed and wait to jump into other people who didn't even poop that day, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

  The results? From the study:
  

  "The graveyard at Qumran is the unhealthiest group that I have ever studied in over 30 years and this is readily apparent," said Zias, who has done previous work on the Qumran burials. "For example, 2,000 years ago in Jericho, 14 kilometers to the north, the chances of an adult male dying after 40 were 49 percent. But when you go to Qumran, the figure for people surviving to 40 falls to six percent -- the chances of making to 40 differ by a factor of eight!

  The takeaway here, for me, is that those vaunted "scientifically accurate hygiene laws" the Watchtower is always talking about really... weren't. Sure, burying your poop makes sense if you are by yourself, but a whole communal poop-burying place that thousands of people use every day? NASTY! And then if you were lucky enough to live in a place with running water, you might have mitigated the communal latrine effect somewhat, but we know that many people practicing these laws didn't have that luxury, and this included the Essenes, who were, somewhat ironically, some of the least healthy people who have ever lived on the planet.

  The fact that these laws really weren't scientifically accurate somewhat undermines the Society's usual application of those scriptures, doesn't it?
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  28

  The joy of being on a JW email list

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's offensive little gem: .

  these are funny for when you are in a fiesty mood!a new way to handle those pesky little "conversation stoppers".

  1) 'i'm not interested'.

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  under_believer

  I'm happy to report that my (faithful Witness) wife got the same thing in her email inbox and was actually offended and told off the sender! We're going through some hard times right now but I love my wife.
  
  Not all Witnesses are cut from the same cloth.
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  22

  Active JWs—Do JWs actually carry a "life saving" message?

  by AuldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to the current dogma of jehovah's witnesses:.

  those who hear and ignore the warning will be destroyedthose who do not hear might be spared (if jehovah so chooses)any who do not receive the mark in their foreheads (per ezekiel) will not be sparedany who are of responsible age (interpretted by jehovah) and are not baptized will not be sparedjehovah does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentancemore people are born every year than get baptized, adding to the death toll every year.

  in case you doubt whether that statement is true, consider this:.

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  under_believer

  AuldSoul, I'm going to throw in with BCZAR2ME on this--I'm not aware of any written doctrinal statements that imply that "Those who do not hear might be spared (if Jehovah so chooses)".
  
  There's a common, widespread belief among Witnesses of this, but the Society has not ever said that, and I don't believe it's truly a Witness teaching. Can you confirm?
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  28

  The joy of being on a JW email list

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's offensive little gem: .

  these are funny for when you are in a fiesty mood!a new way to handle those pesky little "conversation stoppers".

  1) 'i'm not interested'.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  under_believer

  Today's offensive little gem:

  These are funny for when you are in a fiesty mood!

  A new way to handle those pesky little "conversation stoppers"

  1) 'I'M NOT INTERESTED'

  You might say:

  "Well, many feel the same way, and they're called goats in the Bible. Let me share with you a scripture that talks about the fate of those goats. (Read Matt. 25:46) Do you want to get cut off? Do you WANT to take a dirt nap for eternity?!"

  2) 'I HAVE MY OWN RELIGION'

  You might say:

  Well whoop dee doo! "Yeah, and I have MY own religion too. Its called the "TRUTH!" See I'm what you call a "Christian" (Make the double quotation gesture with your fingers.) You know what "Christians" do? They preach to people. Those that don't preach to people are on that "broad and spacious road." Here let me show you in Matt 7:13.

  3) 'I'M TOO BUSY'

  You might say:

  "No you're not. You were probably watching TV or kicking back right? Don't lie to me. Do you know who the father of the lie is? It's Satan!!!................Is he your daddy? I think he is!"

  4) 'I'LL READ YOUR LITERATURE IF YOU'LL READ MINE'

  You might say:

  Hey, this isn't a hostage negotiation here. I'm not going to read your stinkin literature! I came here to preach to YOU remember?........... Now, if you want to preach to ME, you'll have to get up off YOUR lazy behind, and come knock on MY door on a Saturday morning. But don't bother because I'm NOT INTERESTED in your beliefs, because I HAVE MY OWN RELIGION, and I'M TOO BUSY in the work of the Lord to READ-YOUR-LITERATURE-IF-YOU'LL-READ-MINE, JUNK! Then slam THEIR own door in THEIR face!

  OKAY!!!!!! So who wants to make a car group for this weekend?

  There is a time, I am sorry to say, when I would have found this funny, too. I bet it was really cathartic and empowering for whoever wrote that, and for all the people who forwarded it and laughed at it. They just can't wait for that Jehovah of theirs to kill all those worldly people.
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  21

  Man turns himself in to authorities, confesses to committing alleged crime!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  please delete if already posted!.

  http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=2006611090326 man turns himself in to authorities, confesses to committing alleged crime.

  by laura duncan .

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  under_believer

  Note to self: keep kids away from Witnesses named Jesus.
  
  Interesting that an elder encouraged himself to confess to the authorities. Could this be the new way of handling things, or is it a fluke?
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  19

  tell me about the forum?

  by wvpeach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i do not belong to any denomination of men.. i am a true fan of god and his son jesus christ though.. i found this forum looking for some christian freinds to talk with.. so far in looking around the forum , most of what i've seen is bashing of jehovah's wittness's.. i am never one to go for slandering my fellow brothers and sisters in christ.. so if thats what this forum is all about i better just leave now.. responses appreciated so i know..

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  under_believer

  I am never one to go for slandering my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

  So if thats what this forum is all about I better just leave now.

  In that case, you're good to go. Witnesses are not "Christian" in the sense that you are probably using the word, at least not above .001% of them. They teach that only 144,000 people are members of the New Convenant, or "fellow brothers and sisters in Christ." At this time, only 8000, plus or minus, Witnesses even partake in Communion, out of the over 6 million of them that they count as active members.
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  7

  Any Queensryche fans?

  by exwitless in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i planned a little overnight getaway trip for little drummer boy and i for next week.

  we're going to see queensryche in concert.

  i myself am not too familiar with most of their music, but ldb has been a fan for many years.

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  under_believer

  Wow, yaddayadda, I think that is exactly the kind of post that she was hoping for! Well played.
  
  I used to be an enormous Queensryche fan. I've seen them twice and own all the old albums, up to Q2K (at which point I kinda tuned out.) I have kind of grown out of them at this point, but they were essentially the soundtrack of my high school and early adult years. Every once in a while I'll fire up Mindcrime (their best album, imho, with Empire running a very close second) and listen through again.
  
  Even reading the title to this thread has put "Best I Can" in my head.
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  15

  Did Adam know the full consequences of his sin?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

  " romans 5:12. this verse has been used to prove that adam was responsible for sin and death.. from a christian standpoint, this is true.

  did adam really know the full effects of eating the forbidden fruit?.

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  under_believer

  Well, let's see.
  
  First of all the threatened punishment was a lie. I might add--what would Adam know of death? He would have no experience of death and no frame of reference. It'd be like telling a two year old that they'll die. In any case, Adam didn't die in the very day he ate it. In fact, he lived for like hundreds of years. And then all his kids died, too--God sure didn't warn him of that little side effect. Nor Eve's increased birth pains, nor the toil of working the cursed land.
  
  Second, an omniscient God would have KNOWN ALL THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. How cruel was that, then, for him to proceed?
  
  Romans 5:12 is also bogus (hehe--apologies to sparkplug). I didn't sin when I was separate cellular potential carried in my respective parents' loins. I didn't sin when I was a fertilized blastocyst, an undifferentiated sphere of cellular material. I didn't sin when I was a developing embryo in my mother's womb. I didn't sin when I was being forced through a birth canal, to emerge screaming into the world of men. I didn't sin when I was a wee baby, suckling at my mother's breast. I didn't sin when I was a smiling toddler, learning to talk and to sing and play and run.
  
  All men had sinned. Screw that. I didn't sin then (though possibly I have since), and yet I experienced pain, sickness, and someday I will die. I might have died in the womb. I might have implanted, as an embryo, in my mother's fallopian tube, or failed to implant at all. I might have been born with severe anemia, or Down's Syndrome, or a cleft palate, or with no lymphatic system. I might have been born with hypopituitarism, or a severe hormone deficiency, or without eyes.
  
  I completely reject the interpretation that those tiny babies with problems deserve what they're getting, or that it's divine justice on God's behalf, or that God is love for allowing it to happen. Christianity is founded on a gigantic lie--or else God is a psychopath.