After all the dust settles it appears that the only thing the WTS can hang its hat on is that Jesus approved what the WTS was doing to further the kingdom interests in 1918/9 - no matter the changes of New Light before and since. So just what was it that the WTS doing at that time? Selling copies of The Finished Mystery printed in 1917. Courtesy of heraldmag.org here is the text of that book http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/Library/Comntary/Rev/FINISH/vol7.pdf At sites like FreeMinds and Shaun's Research there's some good brief analytical work on many of the 1500 "errors" contained therein. If you'd like to send the definitive work to your favorite JW to review in the privacy of his own home, then he can determine himself if this is the sort of thing Jesus must have approved of, since there is no claim by the WTS that he came back to correct it.
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Jesus chose the WTS in 1918/9, it's the only absolute!
by Deleted inafter all the dust settles it appears that the only thing the wts can hang its hat on is that jesus approved what the wts was doing to further the kingdom interests in 1918/9 - no matter the changes of new light before and since.
so just what was it that the wts doing at that time?
selling copies of the finished mystery printed in 1917. courtesy of heraldmag.org here is the text of that book http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/library/comntary/rev/finish/vol7.pdf at sites like freeminds and shaun's research there's some good brief analytical work on many of the 1500 "errors" contained therein.
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Flashback: "Look around and you'll see the spiritual men in your circuit"
by Deleted init was about 1993. i was at one of those weekend things for elders and ministerial servants.
the co of the time, name escapes me, started off with asking us to look around the audience and see the spiritual men in the organization.
i did look around and saw the varying shades of grey suits and thought: spiritual men?
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It was about 1993. I was at one of those weekend things for elders and ministerial servants. The CO of the time, name escapes me, started off with asking us to look around the audience and see the spiritual men in the Organization. I did look around and saw the varying shades of grey suits and thought: Spiritual men? All I see are business people, managers and supervisors in a religious publishing company. Some years later a fellow from Witness Inc (John Warren) showed me this on pages 216-217 in Rutherford's Salvation Book. "The Holy Spirit was taken away in 1918 when Jesus came to the Temple". I was shocked, since 1918 the Organization had done away with the Holy Spirit. No wonder we all looked like business people at a sales meeting! Funny what stays with you, isn't it?
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I was baptized Dec-81 this came out Feb-82, and I thought ....
by Deleted in.
.... oh my god, what did i do?
but i stayed until 1998, figure that one out .... http://www.jwfiles.com/franz-article.htm
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After I read it in Time 22 years ago I went to see my favorite elder (Dave Johnson, who passed away in 1999). He was sympathetic to my concerns but assured me that the Organization had our best interests at heart and (quote) if they told us to jump in the lake we should, as they probably had a good reason for saying that. It wasn't Orwellian, it was looking after the Great Crowd's best interests. I believed that because I wanted to believe that. I recall Dave's Mom (who had been in "the truth" for donkeys years) commenting on some follow-up Time article that had JW's with paper sacks over their heads, contesting the WTS but remaining anonymous, "well, we just don't believe people who have bags over their heads" and also saying "I've known Ray Franz for years, he always had something to say beyond what the Organization said". At the time that was good enough for me (attacking the person, not the point). As I said I wanted to believe this was the truth, but I recall those discussions vividly. When I did read Ray Franz' books in 1999, I remember thinking this man is not at all like Dave's mum portrayed him.
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I was baptized Dec-81 this came out Feb-82, and I thought ....
by Deleted in.
.... oh my god, what did i do?
but i stayed until 1998, figure that one out .... http://www.jwfiles.com/franz-article.htm
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.... oh my God, what did I do? But I stayed until 1998, figure that one out ...
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Were you happy as a witness?
by JH inthe few years that i was an active witness, i can't say that i was very happy.
i really didn't mind missing a meeting.
i always felt that a meeting every 2 days for the rest of my life was a little exaggerated.
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During the honeymoon stage I was happy, the early convert years. I never did like the door-to-door sales, it made me feel ill - but I did it. But once the novelty wore off and I became a fixture then I just had fleeting periods of happiness. I do remember mentioning after a book study in the later years that "I had no joy in the service". I was quite despondent about that, I tried very hard to put "the truth" first. Hell, we had two keys to the KH. But never what I would call joy, just the happy moments socializing with some of "the friends". There was an A list, people you could have round who wouldn't rat on you for drinking too much and singing Bohemian Rhapsody, it was deliciously naughty. That was happy.
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Happy Five Years to me! Top 10 things that happened to wake me up
by Deleted injanuary 6 marks the day i went to a psychotherapist 5 years ago to find out how to deal with the war going on inside me.
i didn't intend to leave the jw's, i just wanted some arrows in my quiver to help me cope.
here's the top 10 aha's!
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January 6 marks the day I went to a psychotherapist 5 years ago to find out how to deal with the war going on inside me. I didn't intend to leave the JW's, I just wanted some arrows in my quiver to help me cope. Here's the top 10 aha's! that happened to me a long the way.
1. I read a novel (London, Edward Rutherfurd, no relation to Joe) that got me thinking that generation after generation people have been expecting Jesus/God to solve their problems, using similar views, scriptures etc as the WTS. Nothing was new.
2. My psychotherapist allowed me to come to my own conclusion that the WTS is a control-oriented religion and if only that religion alone was The Truth then what kind of God would actually agree to wiping 99.9% of people off the face of the earth, not one that I could support.
3. Elaine Pagels' Origin of Satan: empirical proof that Satan was manufactured to fit the turbulent times of the 1st century AD. It was politics, not the actual word of God, that made Satan who he is today.
4. The WTS never apologized for changing the 1914 doctrine in 1994/5 with the "new light" on the translation of "generation" (genea) and we were all supposed to go along with it like that was The Truth all along.
5. Karen Armstrong's History of God - for me it was the politics of Moses who united his people with a god he borrowed from the Midianites, more politics
6. Ray Franz' two books - Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Extraordinarily well written and unassuming. Who would believe that the brothers in Malawi suffered because the Governing Body couldn't get a 2/3 majority to say it was OK to have a political card whereas the Mexican brothers could.
7. Randy Watters and his website www.freeminds.org and all the links therein. How amazing the stories of those leaving the WTS, so sadly understandable. The background information on all the changes the WTS disingenously sneaked in as New Light and falsified research - just downright crooked.
8. The website that was once support4xjws. I really appreciated being able to write out my angst, have someone understand it and echo back some hope and direction.
9. Tegretol. I was diagnosed bipolar. This drug, although for epileptics, had a miraculous affect for me - it was the first time my left brain and right brain seemed to work constructively together.
10. The people where I worked at Portland Brewing. Unlike our JW friends these people were of great comfort. They did not shun us when we were dubs, they didn't admonish us for changing our beliefs and they were as genuine as so many worldly people truly are.
What are your aha's! along the way?
Thank you all for being there!!!
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What does property cost where you live?
by ball. ini just saw on tv that a 3 bedroom detached property with swimming pool in florida costs the exact same as my 2 bedroom apartment on the coast in england.
i was totally suprised by this.
as there are quite a few american posters here, i am curious as to housing costs in other areas.
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We have my 86-yr old Mum moving in with us in Estacada OR. We have a 3,000 sq ft home on a double lot. She has a 1,000 ft bungalow in Benfleet Essex UK. They are worth the same ~$210,000.
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How many here are nice & rich? Living well IS the best revenge.... come on
by NoBorg income on, leaving the org for being "materialistic" is one of the best ways to go.
how many have the luxury or at least the appearance of having this "sin"?
for obvious reasons i'm not going to comment on this, but i'm curious to know.
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My inner self had the good sense to keep a career going. Can't say I am rich, nor have the appearance of it, but I'm nice tho' 8-]
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If you could be any other nationality....
by logansrun in...what would you choose.
i'd pick japanese over my polish/german/scottish heritage any day.
i'm watching iron chef....damn, those japanese can cook a live octopus better than a mofo.
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I like being an ex-Brit/current-Yank living in the beautiful Pacific NW. But based on the weather today I would go for Hawaii or some south sea island.
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How Can We Help JWs That Come On This Board To "Discuss"?
by minimus in.
...........especially if someone comes here to tell us why we're wrong in our thinking??
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I don't believe a JW in good standing would come to this or any other board. It would be avoided like demonism and/or the plague. I think it would be better to write articles that are factual and get them published in local papers and refer to the board and Freeminds as the place to go to get another view. Since the addage "When you are ready to be a student a teacher comes along" then a truly honest truthseeker will find out that the WTS is just plain false. Until then the JW's will stay with The Lie, what else can they do?