detective

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Posts by detective

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  14

  Things you never get tired of

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  if you were to live eternally on earth, what little things of life would you never get tired of?.

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  detective

  tea.
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

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  detective

  Actually, my friend was raised a witness. His parents converted when he was quite young. He has a memory of one Christmas. He was quite involved- not a person who ever thought they would leave the group. Things change, I guess.

  He had a second dream/ awakening incident last night. He's troubled by it but doesn't want to talk about it in too much detail. I'm not sure what, but something is going on with him.
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

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  detective

  Hamas, just to be clear- in no way am I criticizing my friend. Although I must say it's taking substantial restraint not to skewer his converted-to-JWism parents.
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  38

  JW Sexual Predator Being Released to San Francisco Area

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  www.sfgate.com return to regular view.

  judge oks release of sexual predator .

  convict praised for progress in therapy .

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  detective

  practice his faith... and go door to door. Great.
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  18

  They are shocked when their children grow up and do not want this

  by garybuss in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been reading the district assembly posts with fascination.

  these are sponsored by a religious book publishing corporation that claims to be divinely directed but denies it's writings are inspired.

  it used to be managed by those who claimed to be of those remaining of 144,000 anointed but they quit their corporate positions in 2000.. .

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  detective

  Garybuss, I was thinking along these lines the other day. My friend's parents coverted, which I think makes for a potentially interesting question that someday I'd love to pose to them!

  Essentially, I'd like to ask them "what was the plan"? As adults, they were able to check out this group thoroughly (though it's doubtful that they did). Prior to really decing to join, they could go to the library and compare arguments. They could research the history of the group. They could speak to current members and former members alike see what makes some stay and see some leave. Realistically, none of that happened. But as adults... considering converting...they were able to do the legwork. They had that choice. As adults, presumably weighing all of the evidence (um right), they chose to convert. But what about their children? Didn't they stop and ask themselves what the repercussions would be within their family if , when their children reached adulthood, they chose a different path? I wonder how my friend's parents thought they would handle it. Surely, they would allow their children the same options to choose as they had known, right? Um, right?

  Of course not, but that's not the point. Well, that point has been reached with their children. Their children have chosen another path. And, as a result, they no longer have any real relationship with their parents. You see, their parents made a choice... and the children were expected to live with it...or live without their parents.

  It makes you wonder how a parent could look at their small child and knowingly walk into a situation where they ~knew~ that their choice would forever limit their childs choices. And that the freedom that they explored which ultimately brought them to the JWs, was something they were going to deny their children.

  But, then again, they probably figured their kids wouldn't live "in this system of things" long enough to reach adulthood.
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

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  detective

  Yeah, I know that ultimately it's a victims of victims scenario. I keep trying to remind myself of that.

  Of course, in my friends case, his parents converted so it's a little harder to stomach. At some point they either had to accept the demon thang as reality or, possibly, they may have already believed in demons but had that belief reinforced. It seems a shame that their "filters" didn't kick in.

  But, even just taking the demon out of the issue and applying some other boogie man type, I still have a hard time really accepting it. As an example, if my young nephew came up to me and said that he feared an axe murderer was going to get him- well, there really are psychotic axe-wielding nutjobs out there. So, that much is a reality. But, even so, I can't imagine looking at him and saying, "yeah, you should be afraid because their are psychos out there and they may just kill you". As the adult in the scenario, I feel I have some responsibility to ease the concerns of my nephew by re-assuring him. So, even though he could fall victim to an axe murderer, I feel an obligation to downplay that thought, rather than encourage it.

  I know... I know... I have to just keep telling myself "victims". I'm trying, but it really is hard.
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  19

  Scientology Similar to the JW’s.....?

  by Latte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scientology seems quite similar to the jws.

  http://www.xenu.net/

  a few snippets from the site.

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  detective

  one of these days, I will rent Battlefield Earth. I absolutely will!

  Ever wonder which practicing scientologist superstar will eventually crack and leave the cult? Sometimes I wonder if the Nicole Kidmans in this world will ever step up and give the lowdown on that cult (after all, she's not a member- so maybe someday?) Or will Mr. Cruise ever have a crisis of conscious? Of course, it'd require a conscience, and not just some Michael Jackson celebrity "get of cult free" card.

  Hey Prince, we're waiting...
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

  1. 
  2. 
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  detective

  I'd agree that the fear of demons isn't just a JW thing. However, I'd also have to add that there is something enormously disturbing about parents or a group of adults not only allowing a child's fears to run rampant, but actually enabling such a phobia. And what is the result of that sort of environment, really?

  Interestingly, for all their faith in JAH, Jehovah's Witnesses never seem to feel safe. Of course, it makes sense that they wouldn't. It wouldn't do for the organization to allow a few fleeting moments of peace. Instead, fear motivates people. The sense of security doesn't. But how does that organizational fear-mongering translate within the home? Grown-ups who are subject to phobia-inducing strategies aren't really able to allay their children's fears as they themselves are captive to phobias. So little children are left without basic consolation. Without "safety". Sure, you can throw in a few "beg Jah to make those nasty demons go away" but the underlying warning is also "by the way, don't screw up or Jah will kill you". There is never any security. Never any comfort.

  So flash forward twenty odd years or so. A grown man wakes up terrified of {demons or tooth fairies or Santa Claus or monsters}. The fact remains that nobody ever told him as a child that these things might not be real. You know, demons/monsters/santa claus... oh wait... they ~did~ tell him that a benign little elf who gives kids presents isn't real. They just forgot to mention that whole ~demons~ might not be real thing to their son, that's all! No comfort. No safety.

  High-control groups seem to encourage phobias probably as a back up- just in case that whole social ostracism thing isn't quite enough to keep people in submission. But I think of those kids who never have the benefit of a rational voice to offer them solace and it really hits home the basic reality of living within a high-control group. And the emotional toll it takes on those kids, even into adulthood, is pretty awful really.
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  detective

  Rem, exactly! I'm sorry. I really am. That's exactly what struck me. Where is the rational thinking? The comfort? The things that kids need from a parent? And where does it leave them when, as adults, they wake up terrified by phobias of demons and ghosts... desperately lonely... and can't even recall a single time when, long ago, someone told them it would be okay? He was a kid again last night. A scared, lonely kid again.

  I forget sometimes that I had a "normal" childhood. And then, there are those sad reminders...

  I know, intellectually speaking, that his parents are made as much a victim as anyone by the phobia-fostering that these groups capitalize on. I mean, I ~try~ to accept it using that thought. But in reality, I just can't really accept it, try as I might. His parents converted. At what point during the conversion did they first hear tales of demon attacks? And exactly when did they stop dismissing it as hysteria? Or were they always inclined towards that sort of thinking and it was simply reinforced by group-approved phobia? When did the simple bump in the night become something more for them? When did a bad run of luck become Satan screwing with their lives? Where was the filter?

  No, dear, there isn't any Santa Claus...but let me tell you about the demons...

  It's hard. Part of me wants to let them off the hook and part of me just can't.

  Concerned mama, double edge- it's difficult, seeing it from the outside, isn't it? And yet, for all the hardships and flaws that we might have known in our own experiences on the "outside", there is always one more sad, sad reminder of how lucky we were to have never been "in".

  Intro, thanks for mentioning your experience & the suggestions. He's a bit shaken still and seemingly a little embarassed. I may try to talk it out using your suggestions.
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  16

  The demon dream

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you may know, i came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a jehovah's witness.

  i watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization.

  to explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  detective

  As some of you may know, I came these boards quite some time ago due to my close connection to a Jehovah's Witness. I watched as he struggled and watched as he left the organization. To explain him, he is ~out~ physically, but still somewhat ~in~ mentally. He really hasn't explored the reality behind the group and doesn't seem ready yet to address that end of things. I suspect it will be somewhat traumatic for him when he does.

  I may have mentioned previously that I found it interesting that in all the years I knew him as a witness, he could never remember his dreams. Not a one. And then, he left the group. Suddenly he's recounting dreams he's had the night before with ever increasing detail. I'd bet big dollars on the fact that leaving the group has somehow contributed to his newfound ability to remember dreams. I'm sure there must be a psychological explanation for this recent relatively recent development (he's been "out" a little over a year now).

  Anyway, last night he had a nightmare. He woke up from a distressing dream, and although he was awake, he immediately felt terrified that demons and ghosts might be real. And then, a sense of overwhelming loneliness set in. As he told me how distraught he was, I felt sad that he didn't pick up the phone and call me as he had wanted to (who doesn't need to reach out to someone close at a difficult time!?) but he didn't want to wake me up. He's not alone, not really. He has friends and a love and a surrogate family. But, of course, that feeling must have been incredibly awful nonetheless.

  I remember when I was growing up- thanks to the Six Million Dollar Man- I was sure that Big Foot lived in my family's sewing room. In the middle of the night I would sprint past the doorway on my way to the bathroom, as I was positive that Big Foot would emerge from the back of the room and, I dunno, eat me or something. I was terrified. Here's the thing- I can't imagine if I told my parents about my Big Foot theory and they sat me down on the bed and said, "you know, honey, we know Big Foot exists and it's possible that he might live in the sewing room to boot!" I can't even imagine the horror I would have felt if my parents- the adults- had said such a thing to me!

  Well, here's my friend... a grown man... lying awake at night, afraid of monsters. Of demons.

  Sad. Very sad indeed.