Posts by PrimateDave

5

Creation Magazine

by cyberdyne systems 101 in

hi, i hope this hasnt been said before - i searched back a bit but didnt see anything - but anyway i was round at my ex's getting my children when i came across the creation awake, and read a bit in a box about are jw's creationists.

it stated that creationists believe that the earth and everything on it was created in literal days and yet this is not in the bible.

i then began to read how the wts claims there was some thick cloud (but no proof provided) that obscured the sun which acording to them was already in existance.

PrimateDave

JWs ARE creationists. It's called 'old earth' creationism, and it was not invented by the WTS. They just want to appear to be different from the other fundies out there, even though they liberally borrow from the same pool of ideas that other fundie churches have had all along.

Their apologetics are laughable indeed, except that I once believed what they teach.

I don't believe that the Bible comes from a god, but it irritates me to see them twisting the words of Genesis chapter 1 to fit some strange, semi-scientific, unprovable notion. A day is a day is a day. As for the idea that just because a second scripture says "in the day that they were created", that somehow means that the first days are not really days, but aeons, well, my Jewish Publication Society Tanakh translates it as "when they were created". No other scripture in the Bible we know gives license to the notion of 7000 year "days". It is just another invention of apologist thinking that cannot handle the facts. The Bible says what it says. Reality is what it is. Sorry for my rambling.

Dave

35

"Exactly like a thief in the night"

by Star Moore in

PrimateDave

People like jelloface seem to be popping up a lot lately. Welcome jelloface! I have a scripture to share with you:

(1 Corinthians 15:16-19) . . .For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up. 17 Further, if Christ has not been raised up, YOUR faith is useless; YOU are yet in YOUR sins. 18 In fact, also, those who fell asleep [in death] in union with Christ perished. 19 If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Paul's words (if indeed Paul wrote them) are the most ironic words in the Bible. You see, Paul died. There is no evidence that he was ever raised up. So, he wasted his life. Just like today. Millions of people wasting their lives waiting for a Jesus who will never return. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses who are wasting their lives waiting for an Armageddon that will never come. You ask for proof? I need prove nothing. It is the one making the extraordinary claim that must present evidence, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That's right. Nothing less than physical proof. The claims of a contradictory old book just won't cut it. I am not a prophet. But I will offer a prophecy: If you are lucky, you will die an old man/woman after enjoying a long and healthy life. Don't waste that life hoping for something better, because on your deathbed you will know that Christ never returned and Armageddon never came.

Dave

6

Conversation with a Christian Fundie

by ringo5 in

ok, not a conversation of mine, but a parody of one, written by robert g. ingersoll, and a brilliant one at that.

quite long, but he covers all of the circular arguments that i knew of, plus a whole lot more, and is very entertaining.

question.

PrimateDave

Thanks Ringo. Good stuff.

Dave

396

Who is Jesus? Is he God?

by BelieverInJesus in

i live in memphis.

months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.

i'm a believer in the holy bible.

PrimateDave

funkyderek wrote:

*** Jesus is a character in the bestselling compilation of mythology "The Bible". He is considered by many to be an integral part of the work, but makes his first appearance more than halfway through, in the "New Testament", a controversial add-on to the original tome. Remarkably, there are four accounts of his life, all similar but contradictory. It is believed the editors chose these four from dozens of contenders because they best matched the theme of the rest of the book. These four accounts contain some clever nods to the original "Old Testament" with the life of Jesus neatly paralleling events in the lives of some of the earlier characters. The "New Testament" also contains several letters which mention Jesus, but appear to be speaking of a completely different person.

Jesus is probably the most popular character from the Bible, and has fan clubs all over the world. Jesus merchandise is widely available and comes in a variety of sizes, shapes and styles (the most common being representations of his execution) and some cities have even erected statues in his honour. ***

That has to be the best description of Christianity I have ever heard! LOL! A good explanation of Jesus can be found here: http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter16.html
And here: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/

Dave

20

A question about justice...

by bebu in

jw
friends

this question is not "do you believe in justice".

the question is, do you prefer its existence?

-- iow, do you want it to exist, even if you don't think it does?

PrimateDave

I think "justice" doesn't and cannot exist, at least in a perfect form. It is a human social concept and a construct that doesn't apply to reality. I think we all sometimes wish that "instant justice" existed, especially when we see someone commit a traffic violation and seemingly get away with it. I've often said, "Where's a cop when you need one." But then that wish only ever applies when it pertains to the other person and never ourselves.

Dave

55

Is there Racial harmony among the JWs?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when i joined the jws, racial issues were not really discussed much, other than some mention in the material given to me during my bible study in the "truth" book.

our kingdom hall had only one dark skinned individual, who is portguese, and one of the anointed.

i believe that he is now deceased.

PrimateDave

I was raised in the South (United States), and being white I tended to absorb the dominant cultural attitudes even though I was raised in a Witness family. I felt and knew that overt racism was wrong. My parents were not racist. However, I do believe that I tended to look down on black people, something I am not proud of at all. Well, I got over it and now make the best effort to see each and every person as an individual human being with unique characteristics.

That said, I have heard extremely racist remarks from "worldly" white males on the job (at the time construction work) that shocked and dismayed me. I never heard such things "in the truth". That is not to say that such feelings aren't there; they just aren't expressed in mixed company.

Some years ago, again in the Deep South, a white pioneer brother married a black pioneer sister. Our family went to the wedding. The father of the groom didn't attend the wedding. I heard he went fishing instead. The father was an elder in the congregation at the time. I don't exactly know what has happened to him since. I met the married couple at an assembly a couple of years ago. They had been sent to Africa to be missionaries.

Frankly, I am surprised that the Society, which normally looks for ways to be different and spark persecution of its members, has tried to be so accomodating of the racial feelings in the congregations' territories.

Dave

20

Bible Study - what do you think of this?

by Bad Girl in

jw
friends

i cant help thinking that the original "bible students" did things the right way compared to how its done today.

they sat together in small groups, read and discussed scriptures and then wrote down their findings.

they did this until they had gone through the whole bible.. i know that reading the entire bible is a prerequisite for becoming a jw, but i wonder how many jws really do it or if most of them just know the regular snippets of scripture which are quoted in the magazines, and of course in field ministry etc.. i have decided that allthough i have read the bible - i think i am going to do a study of it the way these early bible students did, im going to read paragraph by paragraph and write down my findings and my feelings about what is written.

PrimateDave

Personally, I found three study aids very helpful in my study of the Bible. But, before I point to them, I would emphasize the importance of using a very literal translation of the Bible, perhaps even an interlinear Bible with the Hebrew and Greek available for reference. In other words, don't trust the translation.

My study aids are:

Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Friedman (check out Amazon.com)
Is It God's Word? by Joseph Wheless - http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/
Biblical Nonsense by Dr. Jason Long - http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/

I'll admit that Mr. Wheless' book is a bit dated, but a good read nontheless especially if you start at chapter 2.

Mr. Friedman's book is a good explanation of the Documentary Hypothesis. It can help one understand those confusing passages where the story being told seems to get mixed up. Noah's Flood is a good example of a confusing story that seems to have conflicting details. Mr. Friedman explains how two different flood stories were combined to form the one we know today. It's information that the Fundamentalists don't want you to know!

Dr. Long's book is a pretty up to date account of some of the problems with stories found in the Bible. So, just how did eight people manage to feed and water all those animals for a year on the ark of Noah, a task that requires modern zoos millions of dollars and hundreds of workers and professionals? And, just where did they put all the shit?

Dave

49

Who is your favourite Star Trek character?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

mine is garak because he has a healthy cynicism about everything, yet is good deep down.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/garak .

slim.

PrimateDave

So many good characters from each and every series. But, if I have to pick just one, then Data (Brent Spiner).

Dave

14

How can I conquer this habit?

by hambeak in

jw
friends

received the nov 06 awake today and this article caught my attention.

it is about masturbation and the evils of it.

in a nutshell try to stop and think of other things deal with your guilt but don't let it overwhelm you.

PrimateDave

I glanced at this article. I can't make myself read through such rubbish anymore. Masturbation is a normal and healthy part of being human. I do it when I feel like it now, but for years, and especially when I was a teenager, I endured overwhelming feelings of guilt that were, at least for me, worse than the feelings of guilt I had from being molested. At least the molestation occurred once and was over with. But, the guilt from masturbation was as constant as the habit, which was several times a week at least. I was well into adulthood before I learned enough to realize that the Society gets its anti-masturbation rhetoric from the masturbation hysteria of the late nineteenth and early twentienth centuries and not from the Bible.

If I was a parent, I would tell my son or daughter that it is normal and natural to explore their own body. I would tell him or her to be discreet and set proper boundaries. There is a time and place for everything.

To the Watchtower Society, all I can say is: LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE, DAMN IT!

Dave

46

POLL : Your reaction IF all religion was suddenly banned worldwide

by fish in

im interested in hearing what your personal reaction would be if (i say if because probably 99.9% here believe this will never happen) all the religions of the world were to be suddenly banned/shut down/decommissioned/liquidated/dismembered/etc.. by the political powers of the world.

what would your first post here say?

would it change your view of jehovah...of the "org"?

PrimateDave

Quote:
*** Anyone who has studied the global environmental movement has no doubt heard the term "Gaia". Gaia is a revival of Paganism that rejects Christianity, considers Christianity its biggest enemy, and views the Christian faith as its only obstacle to a global religion centered on Gaia worship and the uniting of all life forms around the goddess of "Mother Earth". A cunning mixture of science, paganism, eastern mysticism, and feminism have made this pagan cult a growing threat to the Christian Church. Gaia worship is at the very heart of today's environmental policy. The Endangered Species Act, The United Nation's Biodiversity Treaty and the Presidents Council on Sustainable Development are all offspring of the Gaia hypothesis of saving "Mother Earth". This religious movement, with cult-like qualities, is being promoted by leading figures and organizations such as former Vice President Albert Gore, broadcaster Ted Turner, and the United Nations and it's various NGO's. Al Gore's book "Earth in the Balance" is just one of many books that unabashedly proclaims the deity of Earth and blames the falling away from this Pagan God on the environmentally unfriendly followers of Jesus Christ. The United Nations has been extremely successful in infusing the "Green Religion" into an international governmental body that has an increasing affect and control over all of our lives. ***

Gaia worship? Sounds good to me! LOL! I even own the "Bible" for it: Permaculture: A Designer's Manual by Bill Mollison. But, that's not what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. They say that all False Religion (ie. everyone but them) will be destroyed, not a global mass forced conversion to Gaian Paganism. I don't even know where the silly propaganda like the above quote comes from, or what its purpose is. Maybe:
"rejects Christianity" - must be trying to appeal to Funny-mentalists who hate feminist witches.
U.N. paranoia - John Bircher's?
Dislike environmentalists - but are they NIMBY's or BANANA's or lumberjacks?
Dislike Al Gore - are they Republicans?
Dislike NGO's - are they sure they know what they are talking about? Many Christian organizations are UN NGO's.
Dislike Ted Turner - Must think that "Captain Planet and the Planeteers" was a cartoon to seduce children into the nefarious Gaia cult! LOL! Who was your favorite Planeteer?
"increasing affect and control over all of our lives." - Well, if you live in modern civilization, you are already there. There is nowhere left to go (Antarctica?).

Well, if all religion was suddenly banned worldwide, I'd go straight back to the Witnesses! Long live religion - especially Global Pagan Feminist Gaian Wiccan Environmentalist UN NGO worship. Sure beats Scientology!

Dave