Posts by digderidoo

44

Personal experience of accepting Jesus as God, how was it for you?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

i have decided to start another thread to the one on jesus...god or god's son?.

the reason for this is that i started a thread really looking for personal experiences, looking for reasons those with a jw background would change their opinion on this.

i wanted to know why those that believe that jesus is god now feel this, whereas years ago they didn't.. i think it's a shame the other thread has descended into a debate between trinitarians and jw apologists, whereas only a couple of posters responded to my original post.

digderidoo

I have decided to start another thread to the one on Jesus...God or God's son?

The reason for this is that i started a thread really looking for personal experiences, looking for reasons those with a JW background would change their opinion on this. I wanted to know why those that believe that Jesus is God now feel this, whereas years ago they didn't.

I think it's a shame the other thread has descended into a debate between Trinitarians and JW apologists, whereas only a couple of posters responded to my original post. That thread has re-enforced to me that Christians just can't even agree on the most central of doctrine. The handful (well less than a handful) of decent posts in the thread have been swallowed up between the arguments amongst Christians on this site. Had i have posted the other thread on a site like JWS where the OP can lock the thread i would have done, as the majority of responses had nothing to do with the OP. I accept that the OP cannot control how a thread goes here, but i would ask for any debates to be kept to that thread, not this one, as i am asking for personal experience of how you came to this decision.

Please do not debate on this thread, i am asking for your personal experience of this, NOT trinitarian doctrine VS non-trinitarian doctrine. I have found the personal experiences of Christian friends interesting to me whilst i define my own spiritual path, but would like to hear those Christians with a JW background.

For those that don't know here, i am a recovering alcoholic and using AA. The AA program is based upon spirituality, which 18 months ago was a massive issue to me, previous threads will show. I enjoy growing along a spiritual path now, love to learn from different philosophies and there is part of me that wonders whether i can take something from Christianity, rather than reject it outright as i did years ago. I now have a great respect for the bible, can learn from it and can live by many of the principles within, the thing however that does stop me attending a church is that i don't accept the divinity of Christ, even though i think he was a great teacher and a great man.

So what CONVINCED you that Jesus is God?

Paul

55

Is There Anything Good About The Jehovah's Witness Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

anything??

?.

digderidoo

I learnt from an early age how to do a tie.

Paul

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

digderidoo

Thanks Sylvia for your response to my questions on original post.

It's a shame that this thread has descended into a lengthy debate between Renaii's official WT position and those that believe in the trinity. Whereas only one or two posts have responded to the question on the original post.

I already know the WT scripted response and as nobody other than Sylvia and another poster (sorry can't remember who) has attempted to answer my questions on Acts and Ecclesiastes, i am outta here. In fact in some forums the OP has the power to lock the thread, i wish that was the case here.

Paul

60

Ex jw wife

by sspo in

i find it interesting that i posted about 16 days ago concerning whether i should write a letter and.

allow my ex wife to be free and marry.. saturday night she called out of the blue ( maybe there is a god upthere looking down) after 3 years of not talking to her and she wants to meets.. we met last night and after small talk about how we are both doing and family stuff, she asked me if i would write a letter.

freeing her or releasing her from our marriage without admitting adultery, since i don't believe in the bible anymore,.

digderidoo

My ex got remarried without a letter from me. I did go through the stage of her wanting a letter though. She just basically convinced the elders that i had committed adultery, the reality was that she had, which i only recently found out 10 years on.

If you do write a letter and end up getting d'fed, you then have the potential of losing your daughters who are still JW's.

Paul

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

digderidoo

Wow...just logged, didn't realise there would such a big response.

There have been some good points made. I particularly like the way BTS sees it, in seperating divinity to Jesus humanity.

I would be like to draw attention to the original post though, in that what got me thinking about this is Sacolton's proposition in Acts 7:59, that Stephen was refering to Jesus as God. How are the surrounding contextual verses reconciled with such a proposition?

Paul

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

digderidoo

Following on from a post of Sacolton's on a recent thread. I hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.

Was Jesus our God? Consider these two scriptures:

Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Spirit returns to who?

Stephen cries out to who?

The questions i have on this is to do with the context of Acts 7:59. Examining Acts 7:55-60 (NIV),

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Verse 55 states that Stephen could see Jesus 'standing at the right hand of God', which surely contradicts the proposition Stephen saw Jesus as God? This confirmed in verse 56. The NIV translation here also shows that stephen in V59 called out to both God and Jesus.

So my question, not just to Sacolton, but to those who believe Jesus is God, is how do you reconcile these surrounding scriptures?

With reference to Ecclesiastes 12:7, v1 states,

1 Remember your Creator
in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come
and the years approach when you will say,
"I find no pleasure in them"-

The context of this scripture to me shows that v7 was refering to 'your Creator'. Now a JW would believe that Jesus was with God at creation according to Colossians 1, but placing of the word 'other' in that chapter does give a whole new meaning. But with regards to v1, it seems to me that v7 is refering to the Creator, God, Yahweh, Jehovah, YHWH, call him what you will.

My personal view is that these two scriptures do not show that Jesus is God, but that is my personal view which is not rigid (one thing i've learned post JW is not to set your beliefs in stone). So my questions is to those here who believe Jesus is God is why do you believe this? Do you believe that Jesus was the manifestation of God? Or do you see him as divine because he was sent from God or a part of God?

Paul

56

Regional Identities in the UK - A short guide for Americans

by besty in

jw
friends

so the uk is divided into 4 separate countries - the big bit called england that has wales on the side and scotland at the top with northern ireland off on its own island.. each country has multiple cultural identities.

broadly speaking (and i generalize) the wealth of england (and the uk generally) is concentrated in london, the 'rust belt' is in the middle namely birmingham and manchester and the north of england tends to be poorer.. scotland - where i'm from - is culturally rich but economically poor.

there is a long-standing argument about how wealthy scotland could have been if it had been able to keep all the north sea oil revenue instead of sending it to london.

digderidoo

oo r...the Brierley Hill beer :-)

56

Regional Identities in the UK - A short guide for Americans

by besty in

jw
friends

so the uk is divided into 4 separate countries - the big bit called england that has wales on the side and scotland at the top with northern ireland off on its own island.. each country has multiple cultural identities.

broadly speaking (and i generalize) the wealth of england (and the uk generally) is concentrated in london, the 'rust belt' is in the middle namely birmingham and manchester and the north of england tends to be poorer.. scotland - where i'm from - is culturally rich but economically poor.

there is a long-standing argument about how wealthy scotland could have been if it had been able to keep all the north sea oil revenue instead of sending it to london.

digderidoo

Which region makes the best ale?

Wolverhampton...... Banks's

Beautiful pint, but i don't drink anymore lol

Paul

8

Origins of the bible, monotheism in Egyptian history

by digderidoo in

i have been watching a documentary tonight on moses, rameses and the plagues of egypt.

one thing that mentioned was how monotheism was taking hold in egypt and how transcripts from egypt had an influence upon bible writers.. the following is a comparison of akhenaten's hymn to the sun with psalms 104. .

hymn to the atenpsalm 104. your dawning is beautiful in the horizon of the sky, .

digderidoo

I have been watching a documentary tonight on Moses, Rameses and the plagues of Egypt. One thing that mentioned was how monotheism was taking hold in Egypt and how transcripts from Egypt had an influence upon bible writers.

The following is a comparison of Akhenaten's Hymn to the Sun with Psalms 104

Hymn to the Aten	Psalm 104
Your dawning is beautiful in the horizon of the sky, O living Aten, Beginning of life! When You rise in the Eastern horizon, You fill every land with Your beauty. You are beautiful, great, glittering, high above every land, Your rays, they encompass the lands, even all that You have made.	1 Bless Yahweh, my soul, Yahweh, my God, how great you are! Clothed in majesty and splendour, 2 wearing the light as a robe! You stretch out the heavens like a tent, 3 build your palace on the waters above,
You are Re, and You carry them all away captive; You bind them by Your love. Though You are far away, Your rays are upon the earth; Though You are on high, Your footprints are the day.	making the clouds your chariot, gliding on the wings of the wind, 4 appointing the winds your messengers, flames of fire your servants.
When You set in the western horizon of the sky, The earth is in darkness like the dead;	20 You bring on darkness, and night falls, when all the forest beasts roam around;
They sleep in their chambers, Their heads are wrapped up, Their nostrils are stopped, And none see the other, While all their things are stolen Which are under their heads, And they know it not. Every lion comes forth from his den,	21young lions roar for their prey, asking God for their food.
All serpents, they Sting. Darkness ... The world is in silence, He that made them resteth in his horizon. Bright is the eareh when You risest in the horizon. When You shinest as Aten by day You drivest away the darkness.	The sun rises and away they steal, back to their lairs to lie down,
When You sendest forth Your rays, The Two Lands are in daily festivity, Awake and standing upon their feet When You have raised them up. Their limbs bathed, they take their clothing, Their arms uplifted in adoration to Your dawning. (Then) in all the world they do their work.	23and man goes out to work, to labour till evening falls.
All cattle rest upon their pasturage, The trees and the plants flourish, The birds flutter in their marshes, Their wings uplifted in adoration to You.	12 The birds of the air nest by the waters; they sing among the branches.
All the sheep dance upon their feet, All winged things fly, They live when You have shone upon them. The barques sail up-stream and down-stream alike.	26there ships pass to and fro, and Leviathan whom you made to sport with.
Every highway is open because You dawn. The fish in the river leap up before You. You rays are in the midst of the great green sea. Creator of the germ in woman, Maker of seed in man, Giving life to the son in the body of his mother, Soothing him that he may not weep, Nurse (even) in the womb,	29Turn away your face and they panic;
Giver of breath to animate every one that He makes!	take back their breath and they die and revert to dust.
When he comes forth from the body ... on the day of his birth, You open his mouth in speech, You supply his necessities.	27 They all depend upon you, to feed them when they need it. 28 You provide the food they gather, your open hand gives them their fill. they gather it up; when You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good things.
When the fledgling in the egg chirps in the shell, You give him breath therein to preserve him alive. When You have brought him together To (the point of) bursting it in the egg, He comes forth from the egg To chirp with all his might. He goes about upon his two feet When he has come forth from there.
How manifold are Your works! They are hidden from before (us),	24How countless are your works, Yahweh, all of them made so wisely!

The structure of Psalm 104 has led some to argue that it has it's origins in the hymn. It wouldn't be surprising really that Eyptian history has an influence on bible writers. It certainly would have had an influence on Moses.

Paul

188

Hi I hope i am welcome

by cantleave in

jw
friends

hi guys and gals,.

i am a hypocryte.

brought up in the "truth" but know its not.

digderidoo

Welcome to the forum, you're very welcome.

Paul