done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  16

  The org uses "Emotional entrapment and manipulation" rather than factual substance....

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have you noticed just how much the org is now appealing to "emotions" rather than facts?.

  we used to be told that worshiping god has an element of emotion involved of course, but that the primary motivation should be logical truth.

  now though, they seem to be highlighting the "fluff" rather than the substance!.

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  done4good

  That is precisely what happens when one's beliefs are no longer logically defensible.
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  28

  Whatever happened has a lesson for us!

  by Kalos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when my dad left jws, his stoic remark was: it was not a total wastage; after all i learned something good about the witnessestheir resolve to continue with their original claim that they are the appointed channel of god, even when they know in their heart of hearts that they are not.

  why cant i imitate that sort of resolve in doing something worthwhile?

  he thus echoed confucius who said: to be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it.. a poor choice we made, some obstructions or some resistance are almost always viewed with fear and anxiety.

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  done4good

  I just may have needed to have that experience as jacked as it was for me to be propelled into living the life I always wanted.

  Very well put, Sophie.
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  28

  Whatever happened has a lesson for us!

  by Kalos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when my dad left jws, his stoic remark was: it was not a total wastage; after all i learned something good about the witnessestheir resolve to continue with their original claim that they are the appointed channel of god, even when they know in their heart of hearts that they are not.

  why cant i imitate that sort of resolve in doing something worthwhile?

  he thus echoed confucius who said: to be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it.. a poor choice we made, some obstructions or some resistance are almost always viewed with fear and anxiety.

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  done4good

  This is a very good post. To paraphrase it, we learn from all things, good and bad, and those experiences make us who we are. There are rich rewards to be had from such learning experiences that are not always obvious, but allow us to not only become the persons we are, but also allow us to understand others, and life in general, better. The JW experience may have been long and painful, (even after we leave), but there will also be important lessons to be learned from it, that allow us to grow, and help others grow.

  To Kate's point, it is easy to sound elitist when drawing attention to ideas and concepts people may not be ready for. Many on here are still very close to the source of the pain caused by JWs, (shunning, many family issues, possible underemployment issues, etc.), so an OP like the one above may present itself as being somewhat condesending, and even confusing. Some may also not have the personality type that cares for such theoretical and philosphical ideas as the ones you present as well. Keep this in mind when posting here, as it is easy to offend such ones. I have done the same myself here, and now try much harder not to, realizing others closer to the source of that pain need this place more than I do.

  There are some here, (like myself), who are far enough away from the immediate source of that pain, but yet still deal with some special issues caused by the JW expericence. It is why I still visit here after 8 years. A post like the one above, is for this very limited audience.

  Kate, chill out on him/her a bit. This post is meant for those a bit farther away from some of the pain, but yet are still going through long term issues, (maybe for the rest of their lives), related to the JW experience. Try to understand that someday you might just need a post like this.

  d4g
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  28

  Should some people actually be Witnesses?

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems to me like certain people actually benefit from joining the religion.

  primarily i'm thinking of ones with drug problems who are only able to quit because they are working towards baptism.

  another example would be those who are always getting in fights or who have a big ego, and who learn to be pacifistic and humble as a witness.

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  done4good

  Let me ask this question another way...Do some people actually need to shoot heroin?

  Religion is much like a drug. Authoritarian religions are hard drugs. JW is heroin. An heroin addict will need something to help them rehabilitate, (such as methodone), which is still addictive and harmful, just not as deadly. The idea is an addict needs to be weened off the most harmful substance.

  Leaving JW is no different for some. Many have no point of reference for how to exist without it. Like the heroin addict who tries to quit cold turkey, (a potentially fatal situation), a JW of this type will not be able to function normally in the outside world. They need something to help them find direction. That does not mean they should keep taking the worst possible poison however. Most other religions are not nearly as harmful, (however untrue they are), and might at least serve the purpose of helping one gain equilibrium.

  I am atheist, but I know leaving is a process, not unlike detoxification.

  d4g
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  35

  The Reason Why JWs Won't Leave The Cult Is Because They Won't Think!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they simply refuse to think, to reason, to ponder.

  they are lazy!.

  even if they might feel that something isn't right, they won't research an issue or a question.

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  done4good

  It is not that they will not think, or cannot think. It is fear, plain and simple. Fear of loosing their social circle, (big), fear of loosing their identity, (bigger), etc. Fear is a very low level motivator, that works at the lowest levels of Maslow's hierarchy of human needs very effectively. Since the lower needs generally need to be cared for first, (the second Safety level is where most of this fear happens), higher levels, (especially self-actualization where "facts" matter), are of no concern to the believing JW. This is science, and mostly psychology 101.

  I know many very intelligent JWs who are not mentally lazy, and perfrom intellectually well in every other aspect of their lives. When it comes to questioning the organization however, the fear kicks in, and all rational thought is suspended.

  Most of us did not "think" it through properly either when we were in. It usually takes an event that helps us in overcoming the fear to finally begin to question things properly. Even the "event" itself is more of a process, than a single event.

  d4g
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  101

  The Watchtower 11/15/2014

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://bayfiles.net/file/1jpu5/qhxxxl/w_e20141115.pdf.

  select "premium download".

  (thanks breakfast of champions).

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  done4good

  This will cause extreme cognitive dissonance in many. It will have a polarizing effect, which will make the faithful even more zealous, and the apathetic, more likely to leave over time. It will not happen overnight, but these type of bold, manipulative articles do repel thinking type JWs.

  This is an authoritarian regime in panic mode.

  d4g
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  36

  inactive ones going back...

  by monis1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have quite a big group of friends who were all in the cong together when we were teens.

  about 75% of them stopped going or were df'd right after high school.

  it is a varied group; a couple are staunch apostates, some dont care one way or another, and another handfull are fully "worldly", but still believe it is the truth.

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  done4good

  Personality types have quite a bit to do with this. Do not underestimate that fact.

  A person with a preference to be a Feeling type on the Jung, (Myers-Briggs), scale is not likely to think much why they left. Most people, (even those with a preference for Thinking), leave because the "fear" of staying in, (and all staying in might mean at a particular moment), outweighs the fear of leaving. This becomes the tipping point, and pushes someone out of the KH door. The difference with thinking types, is they will try to understand why they left, (what broke or what was always broken). Feeling types might look for confirmation, but that is likely as far as they will go in many, (but obviously not all), cases.

  When someone does not perform the necessary thought process of educating themslves, (to TTATT and reality in general), learning to think critically, and applying that education to a critical thought process, they are always in danger of going back, should another emotional wave, (usually of fear once again), force them back in. It is unfair, but it is reality.

  d4g
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  45

  Is the Watchtower Intentionally Trying to Force People to Leave the Organization?

  by kneehighmiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the leaks from the new november watchtower are alarming.

  they will disturb even longtime jws who haven't surrendered all rational thought.

  it's become so cult like its scary.

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  done4good

  I hate using cliches, but if an illustrated picture is worth 1000 words, a photograph like the one in 11/15, is worth a million. The sheer amount of discussion over this subject on this thread and others is proof of that. This level of manipulation is almost unprecedented, and very frightening.

  I have mentioned before I noticed a few key inflection points in the organization over the years since 2001, (four years before I left for good), the first being the DC that year. The tone was gloom and doom, not heard since the '70s. I began to slowly wake up then. After leaving, the Sept. 2007 KM article concerning, (not), doing research outside of what is provided by the organization, is another, (more people began to wake up). Overlapping generations in 2010, is yet another, and more woke up slowly and continue to since.

  The picture of those somber folks in the basement will be yet another dissonance inducing inflection point that will slowly cause many to wake up. You can be sure of that.

  d4g
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  89

  Poll--How Many Believe In God, Do Not Believe or Are Not Sure Of His Existence?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe in god but i'm not sure of anything....what about you?.

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  done4good

  Non-believer and happy. I do not try to convince anyone. Most people do not have the personality type to not believe. I do.

  d4g
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  54

  Controversial Opinion: Why the web site campaign is actually brilliant

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's a lot of talk right now about how stupid it is to have jws hand out leaflets with urls on them.

  "why go to someone's door to tell them they can visit a web site that lets them ask for someone to come to their door?

  " well, i'm sorry, but i have to weigh in with a contrary opinion here on how clever the society is.

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  done4good

  Apognophos-

  I see your point, but I do believe it has some important caveats.

  I think time will only tell if this campaign increases membership. Quantitative measures tend to be very susceptible to being skewed in WT land, mostly due to their proprietary methodology of membership accounting.

  That being said, qualitatively, I think this is suicide. They are throwing in the towel on ever being able to reach the intelligent and critical thinking folks. Here is why:

  1. They are way too late to the internet.

  2. As some have pointed out, the website is one-way. No thinking person would tolerate not being able to ask questions or comment openly.

  3. Any thinking person would definately look for answers elsewhere if their questions were not or could not be answered.

  4. The only thing to my knowledge that has ever worked converting an intelligent person was personal attention from another person. If a thinking person spent any length of time by themselves reading through, watching videos, etc. from this site, they would come to the conclusion all on their own that something is not quite right, with no one to talk them out of that thinking.

  5. It is not going to be "healthy", (from a WT perspective), for existing members. Less social interaction, and more dependence on electronic media will not produce greater control, (which the WT needs to survive).

  I think this is a very good sign this authoritarian regime is under serious external social stress.

  d4g