done4good

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Posts by done4good

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  89

  Poll--How Many Believe In God, Do Not Believe or Are Not Sure Of His Existence?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe in god but i'm not sure of anything....what about you?.

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  done4good

  Non-believer and happy. I do not try to convince anyone. Most people do not have the personality type to not believe. I do.

  d4g
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  54

  Controversial Opinion: Why the web site campaign is actually brilliant

  by Apognophos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's a lot of talk right now about how stupid it is to have jws hand out leaflets with urls on them.

  "why go to someone's door to tell them they can visit a web site that lets them ask for someone to come to their door?

  " well, i'm sorry, but i have to weigh in with a contrary opinion here on how clever the society is.

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  done4good

  Apognophos-

  I see your point, but I do believe it has some important caveats.

  I think time will only tell if this campaign increases membership. Quantitative measures tend to be very susceptible to being skewed in WT land, mostly due to their proprietary methodology of membership accounting.

  That being said, qualitatively, I think this is suicide. They are throwing in the towel on ever being able to reach the intelligent and critical thinking folks. Here is why:

  1. They are way too late to the internet.

  2. As some have pointed out, the website is one-way. No thinking person would tolerate not being able to ask questions or comment openly.

  3. Any thinking person would definately look for answers elsewhere if their questions were not or could not be answered.

  4. The only thing to my knowledge that has ever worked converting an intelligent person was personal attention from another person. If a thinking person spent any length of time by themselves reading through, watching videos, etc. from this site, they would come to the conclusion all on their own that something is not quite right, with no one to talk them out of that thinking.

  5. It is not going to be "healthy", (from a WT perspective), for existing members. Less social interaction, and more dependence on electronic media will not produce greater control, (which the WT needs to survive).

  I think this is a very good sign this authoritarian regime is under serious external social stress.

  d4g
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  23

  The epitome of cognitive dissonance

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is rare to get such a startling, sparkling, perfect example of this.. here is a snippet of a conversion going on at jwtalk.net regarding israel/gaza:.

  http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/16268-peace-security-news/.

  every one who is in the world today and dies tomorrow is in line for a ressurection.this is their best way of being in the new world.

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  done4good

  I believe the very first brushing I had with serious cognitive dissonance, (at 8 years old), was over this very topic.

  My mother and my aunt were in conversation concerning the then recent murder of John Lennon, and said something to the effect of, "well at least we know he will be the one Beatle who will be in the new system". Knowing my father was an unbeliever, I asked in turn, "so it would be better if Dad died now?".

  Dead silence.

  Stupid me for wasting the next 24 years of my life.

  d4g
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  36

  Fading, Stopping Meetings, DA or DF'ing, Thoughts on Getting the Hell Out Of There

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i read some threads about why someone remains a ministerial servant or elder, or why they are still active jw's.

  others are telling stories about how they cut back slowly, and some of them got removed as ms/elder/pioneer or whatever.

  yet others tell of how they just up and stopped going one day.

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  done4good

  If you can leave without any drama, that is always best. In reality, it is hard to do if you are one that needs to be yourself 100%. That was me, and still is.

  I walked away in late 2005, (last meeting was Dec. 25, 2005). I tried just simply being honest with TTATT with friends and family, and it just led to them avoiding me. Since I wanted to not worry about looking over my shoulder, I DA'd in 2007. There was not much to lose anyway, since most did not talk to me anymore anyway. I kept one JW friend who never followed the shunning rules and we are still good friends to this day.

  I recently tried to reach out to another friend that I also care quite a bit about, but once again, because that friend mattered, I believed being honest with her mattered. It ended up in me being shunned by her.

  The point here is what it comes down to is you need to ask yourself, how important is it for you to be yourself? If this really matters to you, then any friends you might keep by faking it somehow are not worth it. This is one of the most painful lessons I had to learn in life.

  d4g
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  10

  To understand cults we need to start understanding ourselves

  by paranoia agent in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong.

  hassan and singer specifically address destructive cults.

  hassan refers to cult members under mind control and singer under thought reform.

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  done4good

  Great OP!

  So very true. "Cults" cannot be understood without understanding our own psychology, and without understanding the broader social sphere of influence any social environment can have on an individual. "Cults" do not exist in a vacuum, but rather have a role in our social environment, contributing to the "needs" of some individuals, no matter how flawed, dysfunctional, and extreme they are.

  Fear, cognitive dissonance, and the much quicker to respond, "intuitive", (as opposed to rational), mind, play a significant role as to why cults exist, how they operate, and how they are successful with keeping their subjects under their control.

  d4g
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  51

  Modern JW Org

  by Infowarrior in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzaw1xe8q70.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvqru9keiw4.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlsfyfiyzgg.

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  done4good

  Just unbelievable...well maybe not really given the reality of social evolution, but I digress...

  Churches were doing this in the '60s and '70s, (especially Catholic post Vatican II). This music would have been considered "worldly" at best, if not outright associated with "Christendom", (i.e. Pete Seeger's/Byrds Turn Turn Turn), in any Kingdom Hall.

  There is definately a rebranding going on. I am lost as to what the endgame is though.

  d4g
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  35

  Dilemma

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  gorby and his lovely wife had during dinner a chat about watchtower hypocrisy.

  she faded with me since 2007 and shows sometimes affection for the organization.. we talked about the gb and ray franz.. she asked me if she could read my ray franz books.. now i have a dilemma.

  the books gave me a hard time in the '90.. i know the ray franz truth can hurt and shock her so much.

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  done4good

  There is no dilemma here.

  d4g
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  43

  Pets aren't people, says speaker at Regional Convention. Fido and Mimi better watch out! And instead of drinking wine or beer go do some gardening or play golf.

  by oppostate in

  1. social
  2. current

  a big discussion driving back from the regional convention about what exactly was meant about pets.. the warning was obvious to me.

  don't get pets, they cost time and money and you would do better to spend your time and money supporting the organization and going in field service.. as to the wine and beer, because the bro during his soliloquy admitted that the first thing he would like to do is relax after a hectic day at work with a glass of wine or beer, his conscience was traumatized.

  however he came up with a perfect idea, he'd go tend the garden (obviously a solution for a married bro) or hit some golfballs at the driving range (maybe he's not married).. maybe jesus should have told the wine guzzlers at cana to sober up and go till the fields.. .

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  done4good

  The WT does not care about people. It should be no surpise to anyone they don't care about pets.

  d4g
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  58

  Major reversal for the Watchtower imminent - Countdown: only 5 left.

  by Focus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  focus.

  ("armageddon" class).

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  done4good

  Phizzy: Agree D of T, we can never repeat this stuff enough for J.W's discovering this Site, they cannot ever get this TTATT unless it is plainly laid before them.

  It depends on the personality type. Some can intuit it, without concrete evidence, but most cannot. Of even those that can, they will not see until they are ready. By ready, specifically I mean having overcome the fear of leaving and all leaving entails. It usually takes a significant event in one's life to face that fear rationally.

  d4g
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  27

  This will be a GREAT organization!

  by Kensho in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when...... 1) we follow christ example not the gb.

  2) stop df'ing those for challenging current or past doctrine and allow us to use our god given gift of reason and free wil.

  sure kick out the scumbags even the lions club have rules for membership, but not those who just use their brains and consience.. 3) get rid of the nonsensical blood teaching that has cost the lives of thousands and beg god for forgiveness.

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  done4good

  Impossible. Everything you mention is incompatible with an authoritarian high control group.

  Stop dreaming.

  d4g