Posts by done4good

28

Should some people actually be Witnesses?

by Apognophos in

it seems to me like certain people actually benefit from joining the religion.

primarily i'm thinking of ones with drug problems who are only able to quit because they are working towards baptism.

another example would be those who are always getting in fights or who have a big ego, and who learn to be pacifistic and humble as a witness.

done4good

Let me ask this question another way...Do some people actually need to shoot heroin?

Religion is much like a drug. Authoritarian religions are hard drugs. JW is heroin. An heroin addict will need something to help them rehabilitate, (such as methodone), which is still addictive and harmful, just not as deadly. The idea is an addict needs to be weened off the most harmful substance.

Leaving JW is no different for some. Many have no point of reference for how to exist without it. Like the heroin addict who tries to quit cold turkey, (a potentially fatal situation), a JW of this type will not be able to function normally in the outside world. They need something to help them find direction. That does not mean they should keep taking the worst possible poison however. Most other religions are not nearly as harmful, (however untrue they are), and might at least serve the purpose of helping one gain equilibrium.

I am atheist, but I know leaving is a process, not unlike detoxification.

d4g

35

The Reason Why JWs Won't Leave The Cult Is Because They Won't Think!

by minimus in

jw
friends

they simply refuse to think, to reason, to ponder.

they are lazy!.

even if they might feel that something isn't right, they won't research an issue or a question.

done4good

It is not that they will not think, or cannot think. It is fear, plain and simple. Fear of loosing their social circle, (big), fear of loosing their identity, (bigger), etc. Fear is a very low level motivator, that works at the lowest levels of Maslow's hierarchy of human needs very effectively. Since the lower needs generally need to be cared for first, (the second Safety level is where most of this fear happens), higher levels, (especially self-actualization where "facts" matter), are of no concern to the believing JW. This is science, and mostly psychology 101.

I know many very intelligent JWs who are not mentally lazy, and perfrom intellectually well in every other aspect of their lives. When it comes to questioning the organization however, the fear kicks in, and all rational thought is suspended.

Most of us did not "think" it through properly either when we were in. It usually takes an event that helps us in overcoming the fear to finally begin to question things properly. Even the "event" itself is more of a process, than a single event.

d4g

101

The Watchtower 11/15/2014

by wifibandit in

http://bayfiles.net/file/1jpu5/qhxxxl/w_e20141115.pdf.

select "premium download".

(thanks breakfast of champions).

done4good

This will cause extreme cognitive dissonance in many. It will have a polarizing effect, which will make the faithful even more zealous, and the apathetic, more likely to leave over time. It will not happen overnight, but these type of bold, manipulative articles do repel thinking type JWs.

This is an authoritarian regime in panic mode.

d4g

36

inactive ones going back...

by monis1 in

jw
friends

i have quite a big group of friends who were all in the cong together when we were teens.

about 75% of them stopped going or were df'd right after high school.

it is a varied group; a couple are staunch apostates, some dont care one way or another, and another handfull are fully "worldly", but still believe it is the truth.

done4good

Personality types have quite a bit to do with this. Do not underestimate that fact.

A person with a preference to be a Feeling type on the Jung, (Myers-Briggs), scale is not likely to think much why they left. Most people, (even those with a preference for Thinking), leave because the "fear" of staying in, (and all staying in might mean at a particular moment), outweighs the fear of leaving. This becomes the tipping point, and pushes someone out of the KH door. The difference with thinking types, is they will try to understand why they left, (what broke or what was always broken). Feeling types might look for confirmation, but that is likely as far as they will go in many, (but obviously not all), cases.

When someone does not perform the necessary thought process of educating themslves, (to TTATT and reality in general), learning to think critically, and applying that education to a critical thought process, they are always in danger of going back, should another emotional wave, (usually of fear once again), force them back in. It is unfair, but it is reality.

d4g

45

Is the Watchtower Intentionally Trying to Force People to Leave the Organization?

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

the leaks from the new november watchtower are alarming.

they will disturb even longtime jws who haven't surrendered all rational thought.

it's become so cult like its scary.

done4good

I hate using cliches, but if an illustrated picture is worth 1000 words, a photograph like the one in 11/15, is worth a million. The sheer amount of discussion over this subject on this thread and others is proof of that. This level of manipulation is almost unprecedented, and very frightening.

I have mentioned before I noticed a few key inflection points in the organization over the years since 2001, (four years before I left for good), the first being the DC that year. The tone was gloom and doom, not heard since the '70s. I began to slowly wake up then. After leaving, the Sept. 2007 KM article concerning, (not), doing research outside of what is provided by the organization, is another, (more people began to wake up). Overlapping generations in 2010, is yet another, and more woke up slowly and continue to since.

The picture of those somber folks in the basement will be yet another dissonance inducing inflection point that will slowly cause many to wake up. You can be sure of that.

d4g

89

Poll--How Many Believe In God, Do Not Believe or Are Not Sure Of His Existence?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe in god but i'm not sure of anything....what about you?.

done4good

Non-believer and happy. I do not try to convince anyone. Most people do not have the personality type to not believe. I do.

d4g

54

Controversial Opinion: Why the web site campaign is actually brilliant

by Apognophos in

there's a lot of talk right now about how stupid it is to have jws hand out leaflets with urls on them.

"why go to someone's door to tell them they can visit a web site that lets them ask for someone to come to their door?

" well, i'm sorry, but i have to weigh in with a contrary opinion here on how clever the society is.

done4good

Apognophos-

I see your point, but I do believe it has some important caveats.

I think time will only tell if this campaign increases membership. Quantitative measures tend to be very susceptible to being skewed in WT land, mostly due to their proprietary methodology of membership accounting.

That being said, qualitatively, I think this is suicide. They are throwing in the towel on ever being able to reach the intelligent and critical thinking folks. Here is why:

1. They are way too late to the internet.

2. As some have pointed out, the website is one-way. No thinking person would tolerate not being able to ask questions or comment openly.

3. Any thinking person would definately look for answers elsewhere if their questions were not or could not be answered.

4. The only thing to my knowledge that has ever worked converting an intelligent person was personal attention from another person. If a thinking person spent any length of time by themselves reading through, watching videos, etc. from this site, they would come to the conclusion all on their own that something is not quite right, with no one to talk them out of that thinking.

5. It is not going to be "healthy", (from a WT perspective), for existing members. Less social interaction, and more dependence on electronic media will not produce greater control, (which the WT needs to survive).

I think this is a very good sign this authoritarian regime is under serious external social stress.

d4g

23

The epitome of cognitive dissonance

by sir82 in

jw
friends

it is rare to get such a startling, sparkling, perfect example of this.. here is a snippet of a conversion going on at jwtalk.net regarding israel/gaza:.

http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/16268-peace-security-news/.

every one who is in the world today and dies tomorrow is in line for a ressurection.this is their best way of being in the new world.

done4good

I believe the very first brushing I had with serious cognitive dissonance, (at 8 years old), was over this very topic.

My mother and my aunt were in conversation concerning the then recent murder of John Lennon, and said something to the effect of, "well at least we know he will be the one Beatle who will be in the new system". Knowing my father was an unbeliever, I asked in turn, "so it would be better if Dad died now?".

Dead silence.

Stupid me for wasting the next 24 years of my life.

d4g

36

Fading, Stopping Meetings, DA or DF'ing, Thoughts on Getting the Hell Out Of There

by OnTheWayOut in

so i read some threads about why someone remains a ministerial servant or elder, or why they are still active jw's.

others are telling stories about how they cut back slowly, and some of them got removed as ms/elder/pioneer or whatever.

yet others tell of how they just up and stopped going one day.

done4good

If you can leave without any drama, that is always best. In reality, it is hard to do if you are one that needs to be yourself 100%. That was me, and still is.

I walked away in late 2005, (last meeting was Dec. 25, 2005). I tried just simply being honest with TTATT with friends and family, and it just led to them avoiding me. Since I wanted to not worry about looking over my shoulder, I DA'd in 2007. There was not much to lose anyway, since most did not talk to me anymore anyway. I kept one JW friend who never followed the shunning rules and we are still good friends to this day.

I recently tried to reach out to another friend that I also care quite a bit about, but once again, because that friend mattered, I believed being honest with her mattered. It ended up in me being shunned by her.

The point here is what it comes down to is you need to ask yourself, how important is it for you to be yourself? If this really matters to you, then any friends you might keep by faking it somehow are not worth it. This is one of the most painful lessons I had to learn in life.

d4g

10

To understand cults we need to start understanding ourselves

by paranoia agent in

there are books out there that talk about why it is so difficult to convince someone that they are wrong.

hassan and singer specifically address destructive cults.

hassan refers to cult members under mind control and singer under thought reform.

done4good

Great OP!

So very true. "Cults" cannot be understood without understanding our own psychology, and without understanding the broader social sphere of influence any social environment can have on an individual. "Cults" do not exist in a vacuum, but rather have a role in our social environment, contributing to the "needs" of some individuals, no matter how flawed, dysfunctional, and extreme they are.

Fear, cognitive dissonance, and the much quicker to respond, "intuitive", (as opposed to rational), mind, play a significant role as to why cults exist, how they operate, and how they are successful with keeping their subjects under their control.

d4g