Posts by dust

37

Letter from my mom. What do you think of my response?

by reneeisorym in

jw
friends

i invited my mom two months ago to my wedding.

she never responded and then today i get this.

what do you think of my reply?

dust

Yes, who chose "this situation"? It's a controversial question, isn't it.

My wife is an ex-JW, and her parents shun her. I've told them that we know that it can't be easy for JWs to behave like this towards people they love. But that fortunately for my wife, it's not as hard for her to be treated like this, because she is not the one who is obliged to behave in a certain way towards anyone, she is not the one who feels any necessity of hiding her love.

I think (or rather hope) that explained it better to my parents-in-law than the classical "you are doing it, not she". I also added that even though they treat her the way they do, it is impossible not to notice that they do love her. We can tell from their faces, their eyes, the tone of their voice.

I've also told them that we defend their right to shun her, because they must follow their conscience. At our wedding, when my wife had introduced my parents to the guests, I introduced her parents (not present) saying that they were absent for valid reasons, and that we know it was hard for them.

8

What not to say?

by Wendy_Warden in

okay, as most of you know from my other posts im trying to reach someone who is a jw.

well, i was wondering if there were things that non-witnesses said to you that kept you from listening to them.

are there things i should be sure not to say while witnessing?.

dust

Use the WT litterature, and be sure that it says what you think it says. A JW doesn't like do disagree with the WT, but they have no problem disagreeing with the Internet.

You should not trust the Internet yourself either. ;) On the Internet we can often find good points and nice quotes, especially on this site. But often (and most often on other sites) we can also find quotes and statements that are a little misleading. For instance, I once read that 'The Truth Shall Make you Free' prophesized that man would never go into space. When I checked in the book itself, the quote was correct, but the context was such that I would never have read it as a prophecy, only a statement of the facts at the time.

Still, most of the quotes from WT litterature that I have read, are fine, and can be used. Just remember to be sure that the JW doesn't have a good answer. You could for instance ask here on this site what a JW would answer to a particular question. (And do let the JW answer, and let they feel that you respect them.)

Always take your time to get the actual source in your own hands, so you don't have to prove your case with a print from some Internet site. For instance, it could be that my copy of the Truth book had been revised to remove an actual prophecy, but this is the copy I have, so I can't use that prophecy to prove that the Org is a false prophet. If you want to prove that the WT misquoted another book (e.g. Darwin), get a copy of the book and show them. (And let them defend the WT before you move on to the next quote! Don't even think of criticizing the WT, just let the JW repeat the defence after each misquote. In the end they will feel that this is unfortunate, even if they don't say it.)

Also, don't claim too much. Don't insist that you are right and they are wrong. Take your time to really understand the subject, and then ask simple and humble questions, one at a time so your JW doesn't suffocate. It can take lots of time to find the right way to put it, but it's worth the effort. I would not have claimed that the Org is a false prophet, but I did ask once how the WT can claim that they never said they are prophets, given 'these quotes from the WT, here are the photo copies'. (Be prepared to answer the question 'where did you find those old WT issues?')

With some experience you will also discover that some of the problems and questions found on the Internet already have been answered by the WT. No matter how bad that answer is, a JW will trust it, so it is some times pointless to use such questions. But if the question has not been addressed by the WT already, the JW is forced to think, and that's a good thing. :) If you have the Reasoning book most of the WT answers to common questions can be found there.

In other words: Try to think like a JW when you prepare your question to them. And ALWAYS be humble and loving. In your heart, not only on the surface.

That's my advice. It works for me, it might not work for others, and it may also depend on who the actual JW is.

13

What is Rom 15: 20,21 getting at?

by yaddayadda in

romans 15: 20 & 21 "in this way, indeed, i made it my aim not to declare the good news where christ had already been named, in order that i might not be building on another man's foundation; but, just as it is written: "those to whom no announcement has been made about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.

could this be used to show that jw's are wrong to condemn all other christians as false, because as long as these other christians have accepted christ and have him as their foundation, does it really matter if some of their doctrines are not quite right?

i think this scripture shows that jw's are wrong to focus so much on the faults of other christian religions.

dust

The following question could also be added:

1 Cor 1:10 talks about unity.

In this part of his epistle (chapters 1-4) Paul touches upon the subject that some say they belong to Cephas, others say they belong to Paul, etc. So obviously these were regarded as proponents of different teachings. What is Paul's reaction in chapters 1-4?

Hypothesis 1: Paul reacted towards the theological differences (e.g. he felt that those who follow Apollos are wrong), he reacted towards the different of teachings, and accused people of apostacy, and disfellowshipped those who didn't follow Paul.

Hypothesis 2: Paul reacted towards conflicts that were based on personal strife, jealousy, self-righteousness, the establishing of different groups and the tendency to claim that one (e.g. Apollos) had a better or a worse teaching than another (e.g. Paul). (Also see Rom 14:1-12.) It's important to stick together despite our differences, our different habits and our different ways of practising our belief.

4

whose Father?

by dust in

i have never been a jw, but my parents-in-law are.

i try to keep some kind of topical equilibrium in my dialogue with them, so i thought i'd ask here before i raise the subject: .

a jw would say that only the 144,000 are god's children.

dust

Thank you. So according to the Watchtower all may call God 'Father', but only God's 144,000 children may call him 'Dad'. However, in this perspective Romans 8:11 is rather interesting: Those who have the Spirit (the children), will have their mortal bodies made alive. This sounds more like the bodily 'great crowd on Earth' than the spiritual life of the 144,000 in Heaven, doesn't it?

4

whose Father?

by dust in

i have never been a jw, but my parents-in-law are.

i try to keep some kind of topical equilibrium in my dialogue with them, so i thought i'd ask here before i raise the subject: .

a jw would say that only the 144,000 are god's children.

dust

I have never been a JW, but my parents-in-law are. I try to keep some kind of topical equilibrium in my dialogue with them, so I thought I'd ask here before I raise the subject:
A JW would say that only the 144,000 are God's children. But who can call God 'Father'? Can all JWs call God 'Father', or can only the 144,000 do so?
If, according to a JW, God is everyone's Father, how would the JW relate to what Rom 8:14 and Gal 4:6 say about the reason one calls God 'Father'?

55

The Bastard told on my dad

by Lilycurly in

jw
friends

so...everything had been fine for a while.

i wrote my da letter, very clear and also very surprinsingly "apostate" according to the elders.

so at first, dad does what he's told is right and starts the shunning.

dust

True love is never conditional, agapa. Romans 13. If you feel that to love an "apostate" daughter unconditionally would be a sin, even a mortal sin, then God would probably recognise true love. If God wants us to love, then which love is greater? The one where we are willing to sacrifise ourselves loving our children, or the one where we try to rescue ourselves by shunning them?

17

Court Case in Germany

by GermanXJW in

the website of the german branch says there will be another announcement on march 24th, 2005 in the court case that has been lasting for more than a decade now in which they try get granted the status of a public body.

.

i will keep you informed.

dust

GermanXJW,
Could you provide us with a link to a report in any online newspaper about Klaus Vater and what he said? I'd be happy to read it in German, and plan to mention it to my JW father-in-law, who knows that I'm concerned with things happening in Germany. Thanks.

46

Agnostic or Atheist?

by done4good in

for all of you non-religionists out there: do you consider yourself an agnostic or atheist, and why?

it seems many ex-jws that "loose the faith" have a tendency to go straight for atheism.

i myself, would consider myself more of an agnostic, as i believe we have no real way of knowing if there is a god one way or the other, and it tends to seem just as extreme to me, to insist that there is not one.

dust

Startingover, I found your article brilliant. And thanks a lot for pointing out that atheism is not a "stand" where the "obviously existing" God is rejected (it's just the absence of believing anything that hasn't been proved to exist), and where we're all in lack of moral and human feelings. That stigma has hurt a few times during the years.

I've never been a JW myself (I'm married to an ex-JW who disassociated herself to be with me), and I've called myself an atheist for quite a few years (since I was 16). Still, I feel that I "belong with God", and it was my wish that we marry in the church. Some people say that I am probably a Christian, because I feel the way I do, and belief is an emotion, not a knowledge. In fact, I never feel as close to God as after I've just spoken with a JW. And at the same time they make me feel very confident that the church is right. ;)

I still call myself an atheist, but I do pray to God and ask him to look after both my wife and my JW in-laws. It's no wonder people get confused when they talk to me about such matters. I too get confused. So I'm not really sure whether I should call myself an atheist any more.

But if I'm in doubt as to whether I should call myself an atheist (non-believer) or a theist (believer, in my case: Christian), then I... well.. then I don't know (a-gnosis). May I call myself an agnostic? Because I don't _know_ whether I _believe_ or not? :)

31

Got any quick 1914 / 607 points?

by drew sagan in

tomarrow i'm meeting with a jw friend who is connected to what's going on with these elders that came over our house and everything else.

i can't get into details as to how it works out, but this is the important part.

this guy (and elder) can be a quite reasonable person.

dust

Maybe this could be of interest: http://www.witforjesus.org/jehovahs_witness/online/wdgr/wdgr_s02q01.php
(But it's not "quick and easy".)

18

Mama's Boys

by Thegoodgirl in

question: are you dealing with a mama's boy?.

i am afraid i am.

my hubby is on the phone with this parents (actually mostly his dad) for about an hour each night.

dust

Tell him that you love him, but that this hurts you, even though you know he doesn't mean to hurt you. Because that's the truth, isn't it?
Anyhow, as a man I know that men understand such things better if they are _told_ to us. We don't take hints as well as women do. :)