dust

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Posts by dust

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  55

  Letter that my DFed wife received from her Pioneer Mother

  by Hangin_on in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we have been dfed for almost 3.5yrs and have been trying to get back in for 2 yrs and we are getting the runaround.. anyway..... here is the letter my pregnant wife received from her elderess pioneer mother.. .

  dear mary,.

  i am writing to ask you please do not try to talk to me until you are reinstated.

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  dust

  I am not you, and so you will certainly never write anything like this, but I would have:
  
  "Dear Mother,
  
  We have tried for two years to get reinstated. It is now obvious to us that we are not welcome back, and that this is the reason for the lack of love that we experience from the congregation and from you. Paul asked the congregation to forgive the sinner before he was swallowed up by his being overly sad. Paul even left it to the congregation -- not to God -- to initiate the act of forgiveness (2 Cor 2:7-11), a congregation where not even everyone rebuked the sinner, and still Paul called them brothers. If the humans of the congregation could forgive, then also could the human Paul, and supposedly also God. The humans, not God, were the ones that needed to to see if _they_ could forgive.
  
  We need to be a part of Jehovah's congregation, the alternative is, as you know, death. After two years we now realize that we will never experience what the sinner of Corinth experienced. Instead, by shutting us off from Jehovah's organization and not finding in their hearts to forgive us, the congregation chose to sentence us to death. As also you cannot forgive, you did also sentence us to death.
  
  We know you are saddend that this penalty forbids you to ever meet your grandchild. We also know that you fear that your love towards us, if unconditional, may cause also you to be sentenced to death. We do not wish to incite that fear, knowing that fear of death for many is a greater force than love (Joh 15:13). Therefore we will comply with your request not to contact you again. If you do, however, one day choose to put love above fear of death, then it is our hope that you will once again accept our love."
• 
  53

  Recording of my call to Brooklyn Service Desk...

  by deaconbluez in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in what i'm hoping to do as a series for the benefit of all who want to know the truth behind the organization, here is a recorded phone call that i made about an hour ago.

  it is unedited, therefore you will notice the long gaps when the guy starts searching for an answer to my question.

  enjoy.... http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=fd70a73d1403ef59.

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  dust

  You say that according to WT literature, the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar was in 587. But they don't say this in clear words, do they? I'd like to know more.
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  15

  Letter To My Parents - Please Offer Critique! Thanks!

  by deaconbluez in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dear mom & dad,.

  heres the stuff that i said i would send concerning the 587/607bce issue, as well as some other stuff that you requested dad.

  the archeological/astronomical stuff is probably going to come across as very boring, but it is truly a help in settling the 587/607bce issue.

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  dust

  Don't attack the Society, and don't accuse it of anything. But present the facts and ask questions as to how they think you ought to relate to these facts.
• 
  39

  Snakes had legs until Eden curse! Watchtower 1880 till 1974!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  often flicking through watchtower bound volumes i would see pictures of eden which shows the snake in the tree of knowledge with legs??

  even the photo drama of creation shows a snake with legs.. watchtower 1964 p.352 "genisis 3;14 {snake}on your belly you will go and dust you shall eat...before god curse it the snake had legs, that elivated it above the ground...god transformed it's body so that it ceased to have legs and was able to move on it's belly.".

  god's eternal purpose 1974 "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimized by satan.. forrest gump watchtower science is price-less!.

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  dust

  So... doing Bible research and learning Greek would be just as silly as genealogy research (Sept KM). The question whether snakes had legs is much more important.
• 
  25

  JW Science Quote Of The Day 9-3

  by TD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jw science blunders arent always the result of misunderstanding the working principles of the phenomenon being discussed.

  sometimes theyre simply the result of not properly researching a secular quote that dovetails with the worldview of the jw leadership.

  todays jw science quote of the day is a good example: .

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  dust

  We could add that in this case the error was just copied from the NY Times. The quote is actually accurate:
  http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0CE4DC1438F93AA15752C1A964958260
  
  Nevertheless it does illustrate that the writers are only humans.
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  8

  Suicide the bible's view

  by jeanne40love in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  how does the bible view suicide?.

  a few acquaintances of mine in the "truth" committed suicide and when the memorial talks were given, they were handled very differently.

  at one hall the brother (ms) who took his life....his life was celebrated....there was comfort for everyone.

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  dust

  A JC? Now, that would be like... Well... "So, you suffer from something potentially lethal? We don't like that. If you don't stop suffering from it, we'll have to disfellowship you, so you'll understand how much we love you."
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  8

  Suicide the bible's view

  by jeanne40love in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  how does the bible view suicide?.

  a few acquaintances of mine in the "truth" committed suicide and when the memorial talks were given, they were handled very differently.

  at one hall the brother (ms) who took his life....his life was celebrated....there was comfort for everyone.

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  dust

  Eclipse,
  
  You say that you "respectfully disagree" with my statement. A reason for the disagreement may be that my native language is not English, and that it is a little difficult to find the right words. So let me state that I fully agree with the way you put it. :)
  
  And also, please do not misunderstand what I meant when I wrote "(mental) illness". I thought of "illness" in the broad sense. I mean, when the pain or disorder -- whether the pain/disorder is physical or mental -- deprives someone of the resources needed to live, then it should not be a surprise (and absolutely not to be condemned) if life actually stops. "Illness" is probably a too specific word.
  
  I totally agree with everything you wrote. And it is important to empasize that "most people who have commited suicide are normal people", and that "you are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal". What I meant to do, was to compare the causes of suicide to the causes of non-suicidal death, but you expressed it better when you wrote quite simply: "Willpower has nothing to do with it."
  
  respectfully agreeing,
  dust
• 
  8

  Suicide the bible's view

  by jeanne40love in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  how does the bible view suicide?.

  a few acquaintances of mine in the "truth" committed suicide and when the memorial talks were given, they were handled very differently.

  at one hall the brother (ms) who took his life....his life was celebrated....there was comfort for everyone.

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  dust

  Suicide is most often the result of (mental) illness. When people die as a result of illness, there is little condemnation among people, with the strange exception of suicide...
  
  A Norwegian retired bishop (Lutheran), Sigurd Oseberg, blogged about suicide half a year ago. In his own followup (http://www.dagbladet.no/weblogg/blog.php/psigurdo/post/17683) he writes (my translation):
  
  ------------- quote -------------
  
  Thanks to those of you who have commented on my two blog posts on suicide.
  
  One of you writes: "One cannot be blamed for feeling that life is pointless and not worth living." I agree. It is a fact that some people feel that their life has lost its meaning, without their being responsible for this. The future appears as a burden too heavy to bear. Some feel that life is so meaningless that they even think it would be a relief for people around them if they die.
  
  When humans feel like this, they don't need anyone to wag their finger at them. They need fellow human beings who do all they can to give meaning to their life, without expecting anyting in return.
  
  One of you writes: "The church, I reckon, has played a major role in the condemnation of suicide." Early in the history of the church, suicide was considered a serious sin. God gave us life, therefore only Gud can reclaim it. Thomas of Aquino said that suicide is the greatest of all sins because the one who kills himself murders both body and soul. Augustine understood suicide as a sin against the fifth commandment "you shall not kill". But neither in the Old nor in the New Testament do we find statements that explicitly disapprove of suicide. There are reports about suicide in the Bible (1 Sam 31:4, 2 Sam 17:23, 1 Kings 16:18) but nothing condemning is said about the act. And when the New Testament tells about the suicide of Judas (Mt 27:5), this act is not characterised as Judas' sin. The sin was betraying Jesus for thirty silver coins.
  
  But the church early interpreted the fifth commandment "you shall not kill" also as a ban on suicide. Martin Luther interprets this commandment as being about our relationship to our neighbour [fellow human], and he doesn't mention suicide. This does not imply that he didn't condemn suicide as the church generally did. And the concequence for those who killed themselves was that they couldn't demand that the curch be engaged in the funeral, and they were not buried in concecrated earth.
  
  Today the church thinks differently, even though it does not consider suicide to be ethically neutral. The dominant focus of the church is that humans should have a better future. The church is occupied with prevention of suicide, both through the ordinary congregational service and the service of clergymen and deacons, but also in particular preventive undertakings.
  
  In this respect it is focused not only on the potential "suicidal candidate", but also on what can be done in order for the person's environment to become so supportive that the person finds it meaningful to live. It is difficult to convince depressed, suicidal humans abouth this. The Russian author Vladimir Majakovsky (1893-1930), who committed suicide, wrote: "In this life it is not difficult to die, it is more difficult to live."
  
  The curch's task is primarily to give humans hope, not only after death but also in life.
  
  ------------- end of quote-------------
  
  Those were the words of the bishop. Perhaps some of them answer (parts of) your question.
• 
  19

  I'm Worshipping Satan Now.....

  by R.F. in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .....according to my father.. he decided to talk to me today about my meeting attendance.

  i haven't been to one in 3 months by the way.

  so he goes on to give me the usual.."you know where you're supposed to be 3 times a week"......."you're not taking full advantage of jehovah's provisions"....."you shouldn't let anyone discourage you to the point of missing meetings"....that type of stuff.. he then went on to say that if you aren't taking full advantage of what jehovah provides then you're worshipping satan instead of jehovah.

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  dust

  So you are worshipping Satan... I would direct your father to Rom 14 and let him read the entire chapter. Then ask him to read verses 1-10 and 22-23 again.
  
  The essence of the verses is: Do not judge others or yourself based on what they or you believe. Noone answers to anyone else than God. The important thing is not _what_ you do, but that you do it according to your faith. Still, even those with a weak faith are welcome. (Does your father or the WTS welcome people based on their acting according to their belief, or do they demand that they act and believe in a certain way?)
  
  I would not dare to claim to anyone that "you are the one that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 7:21-23". Would your father dare to claim "I am with those ho say Lord, Lord, and I am with those who perform many powerful works in his name, so those verses aren't about me"?
  
  Why then, does he have the courage to declare, on the basis of your beliefs, that you are more or less a despicable fool? Who does he answer to when declaring this? (Ask him to read Matthew 5:22.)
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  48

  Where's the Great Crowd?

  by Mrs. Witness in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.

  we've looked at rev.

  4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?

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  dust

  Yes, we all know that there is no link. But tell that to a Witness. We could just as well ask the Witness what Rev 19:1 says. :)