Personally I believe if one is disfellowshipped and NOT going back to meetings, seeking reinstatement etc, that they are viewed worse off than one that says thanks but no thanks to the JW's due to conscience issues.
Aditionally, which of the two choices is the most accurate here? He has left the WT Society because he no longer agrees with their teachings rather than because he is an unrepentant sinner.
Posts by Vinny
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66JC is over... now the aftermath
by drew sagan infirst of all, why don't all of you congratulate me on 2000 posts!
in other news, the jc is over.
because of this we have an elder that lied to us and to my wife parents.
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Vinny
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66
JC is over... now the aftermath
by drew sagan infirst of all, why don't all of you congratulate me on 2000 posts!
in other news, the jc is over.
because of this we have an elder that lied to us and to my wife parents.
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Vinny
If you are going to be shunned for the rest of your life by these folks (and shunned you shall), then why should it be because you are viewed as some "unrepentant sinner"?
THAT is the label they will tag on you for good. You are toast under these circumstances in the eyes of JW's for good. While being misapplied in your case, the bible does support some form of discipline for wrongdoing. Disfellowshipping is for unrepentant, wrongdoing "SINNERS" exclusively in their eyes. That will be your label then, if you allow them to disfellowship you.
On the other hand, by instead choosing to WALK AWAY from the JW religion, as you intend to do, due to your simply disagreeing with specific doctrine (607, Blood etc), or other issues, THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR SUCH COMPLETE SHUNNING.
This is an argument I have used over and over again. Where does the bible support complete shunning for a person that simply chooses to walk away from a particular religious denomination without sinning? There is no answer because it is not scripturally supported. The JW's demand bible studies send a letter of disassociation to their former church before allowing a JW baptism. Yet if a JW does it they are completely cut-off and labeled. How hyprcritical. I have debated this with many a JW, there is no scriptural support for shunning individuals that walk away from an institution yet remain a believer. This has troubled many a JW. It is instead a control mechanism used to keep the faith damaging information (that you have) quarantined. It minimizes damage control. And it works.
Additionally, try telling your neighbors-friends-relatives etc about how you are now being negatively labeled and completely SHUNNED by all JW's --including your own family-- simply because you disagreed with one current JW teaching. This fact alone gives the JW faith a very bad reputation. The reactions to hearing about such JW policies as this are usually severe. My own neighbors, friends and family were outraged when hearing about all this. And they tell others just what happened to me.
I would suggest doing exactly what you intend to do then, by disassociating, only making the reasons for your disassociating more doctrinal (which is the reality here) than because of one wimpy little JW elder newbie throwing you under the bus. They will use that against you too if you put too much emphasis on that reason. "One little bad elder made Drew run away". The org is filled with people like that anyway. That experience of wimpy new elder only adds to the problem, but should not BE the problem or reason for leaving. "People make mistakes all of the time", Is what you will hear and is a fact. But the ORGANIZATION that God is supposedly using today, to dispense "food at the proper time", making mistake after mistake, having failure after failure, while currently enforcing unscriptural policy after policy is another thing entirely.
Let people know that one cannot even disagree with anything without being ultimately kicked out.
Let people know that once you check in as a JW, you cannot check out. Some roach trap company says that about their roach traps. "Roaches check in but they can't chek out". (Don't wanna be like those roaches....
Let people know that bible studies never hear about all these WT "little problems" they have had since their entire 100 plus year existence.
Let people know about all the false predictions, no organ transplants, no vaccinations, no alternative service etc.
Let people know you must die rather than accept blood. And many other things similar.
Also, from my experience, don't be too surprised if your In-laws pull the same kind of stunt as newbie/wimpy/throw you under the bus/ "good elder" did. Seeing some JW unfairly treated usually does not cut it. Even if it is family. Don't be fooled by what they say, just like with "the good elder". Like yourself, they need to see that THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ITSELF has the problems. The DOCTRINAL ISSUES are what cuts down the WT credibility in the eyes of JW's. Not Drew got shafted. They need to see these doctrinal mistakes, flip-flops, medical disasters, unscriptural policies etc etc to want to leave mother. It can happen the other way, but not often. In fact very rarely.
If you really wanted to fade then you should not have touched 607 when the elders stopped over. But you could not help it. This is normal in my opinion. You could have said sorry about "the Y", I'll withdraw membership immed, I did not know, thanks for your loving assistance. And then said Ijust don't want to talk about anything else, we are working through things. But you could not help it. You know too much now Drew. It is only natural to want to let everybody in on what really is your little secret as far as the JW's are concerned. I was on another thread a few days ago where Odrade has faded for years now and all her family is hardcore, and all living practically on her lap. Yet she pulled it off. Very few can do that. I sure could not. I don't want to ever be haandcuffed or duck taped the mouth shut. But for those with so much family involved, I can see why they would do it. You could not either. My wife has faded for one year but blew it two months ago when an elder stopped over at out biz location. She told him everything. But so far no hammer yet. Now she knows, if you want to fade, you have to zip it up for good.
I disassociated just over one year ago too. For me, it was the best thing and the right thing. I learned things about WT-world that destroyed the "one true faith" status for me. So, I told them it's just not for me, and here is a letter stating why. I can no longer bring people into the organization when I disagree with the organization's policies. Their now having to label and shun me is only one of the very reasons why I can no longer go along with their teachings. I don't care about all the "giving them the power" comments etc; the bottom line is if you disagree and say so, you will be disfellowshipped. So I disfellowshipped them, is how I look at it. And if Amber wants to just get it over with, then there is no need to wait. Though you should think it over carefully. I sent e-mails and called everybody that mattered in my cong before the announcement. After that there was a local-needs just about me, and warning all JW's not to talk with apostates or even answer their e-mails. My wife and daughter (who are both out now) were there at the meeeting and wanted to puke. It was just that obvious. So get to as many as you can, while you can. Let them you you are not being disfellowshipped for wrongdoing. It does sound better and I think it is a higher road to take.
I see people all the time since I live on an island. It gets very easy. Much easier for me than for them, that is for sure. It simply reminds you how cultish the org is and how controlled they truly are every time they look the other way.
Thanks for your story. It is a good one. Hope it all worksd out.
Peace to you and amberrose,
Vinny -
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Run in with cousin over the letter I sent the family
by dawg inas many of you are aware, i've been writing letters to many in my family telling them where i disagree with the wt; imagine how surprised i was when my cousin invited me to his kid's graduation knowing that there were sure to be many witnesses there who i assumed whoud be in the mood for confrontation.
of course i went, as i'm trying a new policy of not backing down from the witnesses; using reverse psycology to try and get them ashamed of being witnesses instead of them trying to make me feel bad about my disssent.
after the graduation, my older cousin, who's much like a real brother to me said that we needed to talk.
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Vinny
"after 30 minutes of dialogue of which he had grown weary of his JW indroctrinated responses being destroyed, he finally said "well I guess you don't mind dieing at Armageddon".
***** Same thing happened here.
A week before turning in my DA letter, a long time elder from another cong stopped over (of course while out in Saturday Service...that's when they like to drop by), to help "save me". He was perhaps one of the few that I actually thought could help me see things differently. We both ended up being stunned at just how much he did NOT know. In fact NONE of the dozens of people I spoke with before my exit knew diddly. It was just one sad visit after visit for the best of the best JW's. I was very respectful with all these visits in person btw.
So, this 30 year elder leaves literally with head down. He then calls back hours later (I guess after being so humilated, he needed another shot) and this time, he invited me to his cong, for the Sunday meeting since he was giving the talk. I guess his talk was going to "save me" sonce he could not quite get the job done face to face.
Anyway, this time, on the phone, I turned up the heat with all these little "WT Problems" I placed on his lap in a much more direct manner. He had no answers. He was completely lost. Every single comment he had was easily shot down again and again. No exceptions.
My focus was on the past end of the world mispredictions, the no vaccinations, no organa transplant medical fiascos. The CURRENT blood disaster of a policy along with the CURRENT UNscriptural life-long shunning for those that simply walk away by Disassociation. Where were any of these things found in the bible? Did Jehovah God HIMSELF come up with these bad policies, enforce these bad policies on millions of JW's and then change his mind a few years later?
Did Jehovah God offer bad food like this? Perhaps He was not a very good cook back then? Or instead did a few FALLIBLE MEN, sitting in a Brooklyn office somewhere, make these policies and then change THEIR minds?
And what do all those mistakes after mistakes say about the organization responsible for making and enforcing them? Credibility is SHOT.
Finally after what was rather one sided humiliating experience, he concludes with:
"we will just have to see what happens at armageddon, won't we"
: )
That was the best a 30 year elder could come up with. -
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TERRY IN SUNNY CALIFORNIA...
by Quentin interry has been in san jose, california this past week...below is an e-mail i got the first day...it's a hoot.
why is it that more often than not the beginning of a trip is so hectic and disorgainized?
1.where the luggage is.
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Vinny
I think you should move, Terry.
Somewhere sunny.
Best,
vinny -
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Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed
by PaNiCAtTaCk inhere is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
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Vinny
I live on Kauai. Really do not know many JW's from those other two islands. Your fade sounds like one of the most challenging I have read about. What do you say when asked what's wrong? Or do you just tell them I do not want to talk about it?
I am sure you know all of this by now, but the good news, by fading, is you CAN have that family get-together, CAN go to that wedding and CAN say hi, give hugs etc to JW's and family you see. The bad news is they can also ask you questions. They can stop over to "encourage" you. Your hands are tied and mouth taped, at least with regards to all of them there.
I have DA'd and my wife has faded. I would do things no differently if I could do it again. But I also have no family in the religion here aside from my one stepson. If I were in your shoes, I'd have a more difficult decision to make. That is why I usually just try to lay out the scenarios, in each case, rather than tell anybody what to do in situations like these.
My step daughter, now 20, stopped all meetings just last month. She says her reasons are not our reasons; said she was just "not happy" with the same old routine and not happy as a Witness overall. When I Disassociated, she was still a regular pioneer. She never got into any trouble, reproof etc. When my wife joined me, and both of us were out, we never put any hard pressure on her to give it up. In fact, we really felt for her since it was all she ever knew. ALL her friends, memories, experiences etc. were JW. But we just encouraged her to do what she wanted, but to really keep an open mind. In time, this turned out to really be the best way. This was in fact HER decision and not ours for her. The elders suggested perhaps she move out a few months ago (which really bothered her). They threw us both under repeatedly. She saw that my wife and I are still deeply devoted and still believe in God. And now she is out. That was great to watch.
He was not the same after that for some time, as anybody could imagine. Eventually ran away twice (once for weeks) and got into drinking and smoking with another JW who was eventually caught and df'd. (Actually I turned him in). I was an elder during all of that as well, though eventually said enough is enough and stepped down.
I was told by another elder not to even talk about my son with the other friends. I was about to take a one month photography trip with just him, through the entire Pacific Northwest, to help get him back on track, so I thought it wise to mention just WHY I'd be gone. But that was a bad idea to them. Then after going through about one year of really making good progress with him, just before he turned 18, I helped relocate him to an east coast beach town to start his new life. I was told many times that if he did not want Jehovah, at 18, it's time for him to "hit the road". So, being the loyal company man that I was, looking forward to getting all my responsibilities back, OUT HE GOES.
He then went nowhere but BACKWARDS FAST. No family at all. Disfellowshipped, no mother and now 18 yrs old and 5000 miles away. Minimal contact from me who was ALWAYS THERE. Then he got into smoking pot every day. Then suicidal thoughts. (He was considered high risk right away due to his mother's suicide plus through professional evaluations). Then I got that phone call at 4 am (his time) where he was crying and asking to come back home, be a JW again, apologizing for all the trouble he's caused etc.
The response: (no exaggerations here)-- "You should not have taken that phone call at all, he is disfellowshipped". "You should have had him get in touch with the elders there 5000 miles away where he was staying". "Your taking that call and then telling others about taking that call, shows lack of judgement on your part". Amazing but true.
But you see, I was still a JW "company man" and still believed everything was from God's True Organization. So, I labored over what to do. Eventually we both agreed he'd be better off moving to Maui instead of coming back our island. So, I met him at the airport on Maui, bought him a used car, found a cheap room for rent, helped him find work, gave him a big hug and said aloha once again.
Things only became worse. He found the wrong crowd, became even more despondent, more drugs and then tore the ACL in his knee in two in a skateboarding accident. This time it was time to bring him BACK HOME, which we did, on one condition; MEETINGS, ALL OF THEM. He agreed with a very good attitude actually.
Had the knee surgery, but then he got staph in the knee from the surgery. Three weeks and losing 20 lbs later (He was 6 ft and like 129) they had to take everything back OUT of his knee and then intravenous antibiotics for two months. Though he did go to all the meetings with a good attitude. I had two dogs already but thought it would be a big boost (because he was sooo down after the staph infection), if we went to the humane society and found his OWN dog. I just had one request; no puppies, get a grown dog so the potty thing won't be a problem. Well, life don't always work that way, as we all know. He found a tiny, 4 lb PUPPY that had no clue how to even hit the newspaper. Yet, we all make sacrifices, right? But what a great idea that was. It really helped his spirit tremendously. Sasha was a GREAT FIND. From pup to like daughter.
I also bought him a brand new, professional, Nikon D2X digital camera. We took an all-island photo trip that also made a great difference. (All the while, my PO tells me that I showed poor judgement and cut the hand of Jehovah short by allowing him to move back in with us. And for the three months that he went to all the meetings, not one elder took the time to speak with him. Literally, not even ONE.)
After his three months of meetings and just prior to the second knee surgery, (which also failed...third time though was the charm) he came to me and said "Dad, I love you, but after going to all the meetings for months, and watching everybody there, it's just not for me". "I just don't want to be a Witness". He was reasonable and logical about it. He said "the people in the hall are just plain strange". "They have no life". "The meetings are so boring". "I really did try Dad"....
What can you say to all that?
Still my belief that this was God's organization was pretty much unfazed. (Just months after this all of THAT would change though). And when I eventually told him about what I was doing, by leaving the JW's, nobody was happier to hear this than him. Could not wipe the smile off his face if I paid him to stop smiling.
The reason I bring all of this up is because yesterday, I helped him move into his first house, with his new wife, and yep, his own dog, sasha (who is now almost two years old). Both his wife and his little pup are really amazing. His wife and he both have great jobs and love each other dearly. His photography, while still only part-time, has been internationally recognized and he is featured in Aloha Airlines magazine, right now, with the May/June issue. He has received thousands of dollars from stock usage requests of his images.
http://www.scottephotos.com/index.html
http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&photo_id=5044240
This is why love is not supposed to be conditional. This is why we help our own when times are down.
He has thanked me for not giving up on him many times.
But there is nothing to thank me for, for this is what we are supposed to do, to those we love.
I just want his dog back here with me. She is so much fun. She gets the assist for helping those in need more than for just him.
So how do I steal his dog then? Yep, bad daddy, but so what.
Any suggestions?
: )
: )
(actually I am only two miles away, so I get her when he goes to work... that sounds like a win-win deal to me...
vinny -
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Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed
by PaNiCAtTaCk inhere is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
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Vinny
Thanks for the details Odrade. Two more questionz; do you live in the same area as when you were both active JW's? And Is either of your family in the same area that you live in today?
What makes it more difficult for us is that we live on an ISLAND. It is practically a rarity to "go out", whether shopping, restaurants, movies etc and NOT SEE a JW at some point and time. I gave many public talks in each of the eight congregations on this island. We participated in remodeling, quick builds, weddings, social gatherings and whatever else JW's do together. Over the past year I have become accustomed to this new fact of life PROOF that this is a controlling religious institution. I am convinced that running into these folks phases THEM more than I nowadays since I have grown used to it.
My stepson, her son, lives only five minutes up the road. They have a one and a half year old as well. Her side of the family pretends to be hardcore too. Her mother claims to be of the 144,000. Though none of us elders believed that was even possible. It was a running joke among us for years. Every memorial the entire family would color coordinate according to how this sister chose. She would then partake (while we brothers would carefully do the eye rolling thing), and then everybody would take the sister out to a special dinner.
It was embarrassing to watch actually. Then during the week, this entire family--including ms. "Special Anointed", would come to every single meeting late. Or not show up at all. They would cancel talk after talk. It got to the point where I had backup talks planned just by looking at the schedule and seeing their names.
Anyway, her family (our son's wife) is the source behind our them shunning us both. I have no problems with some sort of change in relationship since I did DA. But my wife has just faded away, nothing more, solely to keep that relationship intact. Yet he has told her directly that he wants nothing to do with either of us unless we go back to the meetings. What makes all of this such a joke, is that his wife was just fired from her job for stealing $2800. He loads up on the cold ones every single night. THey both hang out with other disfellowshipped friends. His myspace page says "life is a beer, drink it up". They miss half the meetings. etc etc..
Amazing stuff going on.
I'll post more later. I have some comments to post about the other son that IS OUT, tomorrow. But headed out to town now.
Aloha,
vinny -
40
Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed
by PaNiCAtTaCk inhere is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
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Vinny
Guess I'm indebted to Odrade now. She did help me out. Got to give credit where credit is deserved.
: )
Your MSNBC post was very compelling to read Odrade. It was reasonable and you brought out very specific issues. Those issues, when examined truthfully (as I was compelled to do), did the WT Society IN. It just amazes me how I had never even heard of those things before.
vinny -
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Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed
by PaNiCAtTaCk inhere is the link.
copy and paste and post.
here is an actual post from a jw.
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Vinny
I was reading some of the comments posted on this msnbc article again this morning. (It is still posted under "Rising From The Ruin" series of articles about New Orleans).
http://risingfromruin.msnbc.com/stories.html
In fact, I forwarded this exact article to every Witness whose e-mail address I had. Something I rarely did due to being counseled about "forwards and e-mails".
But then, I started reading the comments below the article. (Bad idea). In the beginning most were PRO-JW, from JW's. Then the other kind started rolling in. Then I sent in a comment (though it never posted due to being very similar to the other JW comments sending peoplke to the "Official JW Site".
"Anyone who chooses not to live up to these standards cannot be allowed to remain in the congregation for the sake of those who are trying to live up to them. However the removal is not permanent. If the person decides to get their life back in line with Jehovah God’s standards they are welcomed back into the congregation."
i am currently being shunned completely by my jehovah's witness family (my mom ignored my email telling her that i just got engaged). i was not disfellowshipped from the congregation. i have not committed any disfellowshipping offense, and yet i'm shunned by all of my family and friends because i disagree with there interpretation of the bible. especially regarding their policy on blood transfusions. please tell me how someone in my situation can "get [his] life back in line with Jehovah God's standards." i have not accepted a blood transfusion (or otherwise "stepped out of line"), i simply disagree that the bible forbids them.
in this way, i wholeheartedly agree that they stifle personal morality and personal responsibility.my personal moral code does not forbid the taking of a blood transfusion, yet to 'get my life back in line' and share my coming marriage with my family, i have to convince myself that it does.
I have no problem with my family believing what they wish, i just beg for that same level of respect."
Michael M (Sent Nov 2, 2005 3:08:33 PM)
We are concerned when we see people point to examples such as this and say "see what they do? they must be right, they have LOVE!" We know the reality. Individuals may have love, but the reality is they have been misled by their religious leaders into believing things that harm their families and their lives.
I have been a JW all of my life. My husband has too. We both left the organization 3 years ago due to matters of conscience when we realized we had been lied to about a number of doctrinal issues, when we learned that the JWs were secretly associated with the UN, even while accusing other religions of fornicating with a "harlot" for their association with the UN.
We learned many details about blood transfusions, organ transplants, vaccinations, and the Society's ever-changing stance on them over the years. We saw friends disfellowshipped because of questioning doctrine, NOT for "immorality." We saw men in the congregation who raped their children repeatedly, get a handslap simply because they "repented." We also saw their children, reeling from years of rape and abuse, being told to "pray more and study harder," by untrained and unqualified "clergy," as a method for recovery from abuse.
We would attend congregation picnics and gatherings, and see these same child-rapists accepted with open arms into the community... parents even going so far as to NOT protect their children. (Can you imagine my horror at seeing a known and convicted pedophile holding a 4 y.o. girl on his lap, and escorting her alone to the restroom, in the presence of many members, and no one thinking twice about it because the congregation elders had given him his "privileges" back... thus showing he was to be trusted, I guess.) Yet the raped children of these sick, yet active JWs, are ostracized when they can't deal with the criminal acts perpetrated on them, and act out.
We left because no matter what we did, or how hard we tried, we were always behind the 8-ball. Being told "do more, do more," it was never enough.
We left because we saw young adults essentially blackmailed into baptism by their parents and elders of the congregation by shaming them into it. Then when they couldn't live up to the requirements, they were thrown out with no sympathy.
Neither I, nor my husband are disfellowshipped or disassociated. We choose not to comply with the ridiculous rule that we must state our intentions. To do so would mean that our families would be forced to reduce our contact with them to all but the most basic and necessary family communications--simply because we do not agree with their religious beliefs.
When I read an article like this, what comes to mind for me is not that the act is good, (which it is,) it's that I sincerely hope that people are not misled by the outward appearance of charity and "love" into believing that involvement with the JWs would be good for them. It's not. This is a high-control, manipulative, deceptive and family-wrecking group. The member who leaves for matters of conscience is indeed shunned, just as though they committed some "immoral" act. The shunning is from the JWs directed outward. It is the JW who is destroying the family bonds, no matter how much they want you to believe the responsibility lies with the non-believer.
It is a testament to just how indoctrinated the average JW is, that they so adamantly defend their "truth" and "spirit-direction," without any knowledge of their Organization, beyond what has been spoon-fed to them in their endless stream of "bible-study aids." It is a testament that they believe their lives are improved by belonging to such an insular and judgmental apocalyptic organization. They are "encouraged" not to examine outside information regarding their sect, and this is why they are dangerous. It's easy to be utterly convinced of your own "rightness" and "divine approval," when you only have one side of the story.
It's easy to see "love" when you watch twenty volunteers on a roof. What do you think when you see an Elder turn his back on a mother who greets him, simply because the mother has decided that she doesn't want her child exposed to the "approved associate" pedophile at the Kingdom Hall, and has warned the other mothers? Is this love? Do you want your children at the Kingdom Hall? BTW, there were 3 actively associating child molestors in my hometown congregation when I moved out.
It is out of concern for people who might be snared by this destructive organization, that I and others post comments sharing the "rest of the story."
Stacey, OR (Sent Nov 2, 2005 2:39:12 PM)
Cults Are High Control Groups. So One Has To Ask,”Is The Jehovah Witness Religion A High Control Group?”
Here Is The Main Evidence On It. I Write It All The Time And It Gets Ignored All The Time. So Here It Goes Again.
Once The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Made A Mandate That Their Members Could Not Receive Vaccinations. If A Member Said I Do Not Agree And Received Vaccinations OR Gave Their Young Children Vaccinations They Would Be Disfellowshipped And Loose Their Entire Family.
Once Disfellowshipped Not Even Your Family Can So Much As Take A Meal With You If You Go Against The Watchtower™.
SOOOOOOooo, Jehovah’s Witnesses Didn’t Take Vaccinations And Some Died. Even CHILDREN Died.
Then One Day The Watchtower Society Says They Have New Light™ And So Now Jehovah’s’ People May In Good Conscience Take Vaccinations.
So, Then, The People AND Children Who Died Not Taking Vaccinations….Who Did They Die For? Did They Die For Jehovah? Or For The Watchtower Bible And Tract Corporation™? Did The Bible Say Not To Take Vaccinations? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate?
Although There Were Other Health Mandates I Will Skip Them And Go To Another Biggie. Organ Transplants.
At One Time The Watchtower Society™ Said No Organ Transplants For Their Members.
To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants Was Considered Cannibalism By The Slave Class™.
If A Jehovah’s Witness Received An Organ Transplant Or Allowed Their CHILD To Receive A Life Saving Organ Transplant They Were Disfellowshipped. Shunned. Loosing All Family,Friends,And A Voice In The Congregation.
If A Jehovah’s Witness Questioned The Dogmatic Doctrine Of No Organ Transplants They Were Accused Of “Running Ahead Of Jehovah’s Organization”. Apostasy!
Then New Light™ Comes From The Slave Class.
Jehovah’s People Can Now Receive Organ Transplants.
Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Died Including CHILDREN.
Did The Bible Say Not To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate?
Now I Will Go To Another Biggie, Blood.
Not Whole Blood Just Fractions. Jehovah’s Witnesses Latest Medical Mandate Is No Blood.
Science Develops New Treatment For Hemophiliacs Using Blood Fractions.
Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Hemophiliacs And Parents Of Children Who Are Hemophiliacs Whose Doctors Have Told Them About This New Treatment Call Bethel.
The Watchtower Society™ Says No Blood Fractions.
Even Just A Part Of The Blood Is Still Blood. It Must Be Poured Out Onto The Ground.
Many Die. Many CHILDREN Die.
One Day The Slave Class™ Says They Have New Light™.
Jehovah’s Witnesses May Now Receive Blood Fractions.
Did The Bible Say Not To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? To Not Allow Your Children To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? Did These Men, Women, And CHILDREN, Die For Jehovah? Or Did They Die For The Watchtower™?
What Would Have Happened In Any Of These Medical Mandated Cases Had The Individual Jehovah’s Witness Said,” I Am Sorry But, I Must Save My Life That IS A Gift From God. I Believe The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Is Wrong On This Point.”
The Consequence For Disobedience To The Watchtower Even For Nobel Causes Is Disfellowshipment.
The Loss Of Your World As You Know It. The Loss Of Your Family, Friends, And Support At The Kingdom Hall AND You Feel Are Made To Feel The Loss Of Your GOD.
You Feel And Are Made To Feel As If You Are Worse Then Dead.
Now Even Parents Allowed Their Children To Die (Be Killed) By Dogmatic Medical Mandate.
So Is This A High Control Group? You Answer This For Yourself.
Use YOUR God Given Conscience. It Is Yours. It Is A Gift. Nothing God Gives Is Broken No Matter What You Have Been Taught. You Do Not Need Any Man To Tell You What To Do On Any Righteous Matter.God Is Taking Care Of You.Listen To The Still Small Voice Of Our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit.
I Did Not Touch The Subject Of Whole Blood This Time,Because You Must Also Answer This For Yourself. But Look At The Record Of The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™. They Have Been Deadly Wrong Too Many Times.
Do You Wish To Take The Blue Pill Or The Red?
http://www.whysanity.net/monos/matrix3.html
Many Blessings,
Kitty Pride
Kitty Pryde Chicagoland Area (Sent Nov 3, 2005 7:03:30 AM) -
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Vinny
FINAL POST FOR SURE:
Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.
Vinny -
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Vinny
WINDING IT ALL DOWN FOLKS:
MORE ATHEISTS TAKEDOWNS:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/134488/2398037/post.ashx#2398037