Posts by Vinny

7

Blood Question...

by rosiegurl in

forgive me in advance if i seem to not really know alot....i didn't pay really close attention at the meetings when i was a kid and i kinda just wasn't into it when i was an adult...i just kinda 'did what they said to do' >.< i know horrible.. but...here is my question.

wasn't the 'no blood thing' from the old testament?

and part of the laws given to the isrealites...the laws that jesus put an end to when he was born and gave his life for our sins?

Vinny

Here are two blood debate threads between JW's and EX JW's. In both cases the JW was TROUNCED. All issues are thoroughly covered here:

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=28082&discussionID=554680

The WT got blood WRONG.

87

WHO IS THE INJURED PARTY? What is wrong with this doctrine?

by Terry in

who was the injured party?

in the garden of eden when both adam and his wife, eve rebelled against instructions from their landlord, jehovah.. "in the day you eat of it (the fruit) you shall surely die.".

adam and eve ate of it.

Vinny

Terry says:... "Your very long post and apologia are straight out of Lee Strobel and John McDowell. (I work in a bookstore in the religion, philosophy and metaphysics section, remember?)"

If what I wrote sounds like something others have already written, well then, that only adds more to its value, in my mind. There are very legitimate reasons for considering the bible as being more than just some "good book" from men. MANY people today share this same view. I just happened to post some of those specific reasons on your thread, in my own words. You'll be okay though. And what does the "length" of my post have to do with anything? Rather than address some very significant issues that I presented in favor of the bible possibly being inspired, you instead try to knock the length of my post and accuse my of some kind of plagarism. Say what?

87

WHO IS THE INJURED PARTY? What is wrong with this doctrine?

by Terry in

who was the injured party?

in the garden of eden when both adam and his wife, eve rebelled against instructions from their landlord, jehovah.. "in the day you eat of it (the fruit) you shall surely die.".

adam and eve ate of it.

Vinny

Terry says:..."Two naked people in a garden eating forbidden fruit. A devil and a talking snake. Then we add a villainous god. Who really invented this rubbish?

Well, I'll tell you who came up with this "rubbish".

2 Cor 11:3 says, "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ."

Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned".

The BIBLE, in my opinion, IS a reliable source of information. It claims to be authored by God. There is an abundance of evidence that it could be authored by God. Here is a very short list of reasons why I believe the bible is very likely from God and thus a reliable, trustworthy source of information today:

For me, the idea that all four of gospel writers just made up these accounts about Jesus Christ is not something I quickly buy into. The way they claim to have changed their lives, leaving many significant occupations and other personal things behind, leads me to believe these men certainly found SOMETHING powerfully persuasive in this person called Christ. They freely admit their MISTAKES which only adds to their credibility, in my mind. Likewise the bible writer Paul; he certainly had something dramatic happen to him. He claims to have had a vision of Christ himself, became blind, went to Ananias as instructed and received his sight back. Then completely changed his direction from a hater and persecutor of Christians to becoming an ardent CHRISTIAN HIMSELF, one of the foremost of the apostles actually, spearheading the preaching of Christ to the Gentiles. The apostles did not even trust or believe him initially, which again, only ADDS to the believability from my perspective. I guess all of these writers COULD HAVE just made these things up. That is possible. But it is also very possible they happened just as were written. And if so, then we have some very interesting events taking place that would support Jesus' claim to be God's son, representing God himself. And if true, then what He says about God, about the earth, the future, life etc.... can be and should be seriously very considered. I would consider such a source as very reliable. Very trustworthy, *IF* these accounts about him are true.

The fact that our own calendar syatem is based on the very year Jesus was born adds to my own reasons to believe he really existed. Secular historian Josephus testifies to Jesus existence and performing miraculous events as well. Just a coincidence? A person that really did not exist at all, or whose accomplishments were greatly exaggerated? Possible, I guess. But possibly NOT exaggerated at all.

Is it possible then that this bible is from God? I believe it is possible, and even very probable. If so, if it is from God himself, then the very question as to how life arrived is answered. Then the Genesis account is believable. Like it or not.

It also tells the reader that God himself made these things that we see today. No soup-like conditions that somehow evolved into the beautiful yet complex systems we see surrounding us today. It answers many of man's perplexing questions. Does it answer everything? No, it does not. Yet it does say there are new scrolls to be opened. It talks about everlasting life being possible for those that believe and apply God's sons teachings in his life. A life where death and pain and mourning are things of the past. Not the kind of life we see today. It promises these things we see causing pain and death and heartaches will be done away completely and permanently. That is a beautiful hope, in my opinion. Many other answers, too many to list here are given as well. If the bible is true then, the human race has much to look forward to.

For me, it does make sense. It does offer hope. It is worth putting my trust in. It does offer answers as well as a good measure of comfort. It is believable. Trusting in the bible as the written word of God is based on more than mere emotion or blind faith. There are logical, reasonable reasons to believe in it as well.

Am I 100 percent, absolutely certain that the bible is from God? No, I am not. But I am *quite* certain that it is, at this point and time. There is a very real believability to this collection of books for me, for reasons expressed above. I am 1000 percent certain that there is A GOD. Is He the God of the bible? In my view, He probably is.

I have rejected and subsequently left the WT Society itself. But I am still a "Believer" in Christ and of the very writings that have presented this person that quite possibly is the Son of God Himself.

That source of "rubbish", as you call it, is not quite taking in ALL of the facts here.

Sorry.

All the best,

vinny

18

High impact ideas disproving the WTS

by greendawn in

if you had to explain to a non jehovah's witness or even to a jehovah's witness (better called watchtower's witness) the reasons why the wt religion is not worth being with, and why it is worthy of disapproval, what would your high impact arguments be?

if someone asked why is that religion not good, why are you accusing it?

Vinny

In addition to all of the PAST WT embarrassments, weird science, end of the world false predictions, medical disasters and doctrinal flip flops:

CURRENTLY Witnesses cannot even DISAGREE today with current WT teachings without risk of being disfellowshipped out. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY Witnesses cannot formally LEAVE the WT Society without being shunned and punished by all JW's (including your own family) for the rest of their life. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO brother wearing a beard is allowed congregational privileges. This policy is actually a CONTRAST to bible teachings.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to celebrate his or anybody's birthday without risk of expulsion. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to vote without risk of being expelled. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness can celebrate Mothers Day Fathers Day, Thanksgiving, New Years Day 4th of July or many other holidays without risk of being expelled. Not found in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to work as a police officer or any other occupation where he carries a firearm and remain exemplary (or be used in the cong). Not in the bible. Used as a protection and to maintain peace and order.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that plays sports in school, becomes a cheerleader or joins after school clubs is viewed favorably. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY ALL Sisters are expected to wear dresses to all meetings and field service. No pants, jumpsuits, shorts etc. allowed. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness can play the lottery without risk of expulsion. Nowhere found in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to participate in Martial Arts or Yoga. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that owns his own business can perform any services on church or military institutions. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO JW that averages less than double digits in the ministry qualifies for congregational responsibilities. (You can dip occasionally below but not on an average basis).

CURRENTLY one cannot accept a whole blood transfusion without being disfellowshipped even if dying is the likely result. Yet one can accept certain fractions of blood, even though other smaller oftentimes more vital fractions are not allowed. JW's do use these fractions taken from the worlds blood supply, often in great quantity, yet are not allowed to donate blood back into this very same blood supply they have taken from. And CURRENTLY Witnesses are not even allowed to withdraw and store their OWN blood for surgery or other emergencies.

CURRENTLY there is the Watctower's official website page of hypocrisy where all others are encouraged to examine their own faith, be willing to make a stand, even if different yet if a Witness does this very same thing they will be expelled.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm

CURRENTLY no bible study is told of all the past medical mistakes that cost thousands of lives, nor that the JW's mis-predicted the end of the world a dozen times, nor that thousands of brothers went to prison for refusing alternative service for 50 years before being made "conscience" matters. They are also never told that if you choose to leave the organization you will be shunned for the rest of your life unless you come back in full agreement with all current teachings. Nor are they ever told they cannot disagree with any current teachings. Bible studies will never know these things. I have personally found this out the hard way.

This is a very condensed list for you.

Vinny

16

Letter of Disassociation

by Vinny in

jw
friends

http://p196.ezboard.com/fexjehovahswitnessforumfrm14.showmessage?topicid=237.topic

Vinny

Thanks for the "welcome" comments.

Actually my wife stopped all meetings after last year's memorial. She he very definitely OUT.

My own son is also out. My step daughter is half way out.

My stepson married into a radical JW family. His mother in law thinks she is of the annointed. He is shunning both me and his own mother who is not DF'd or Da'd.

The JW's cannot believe he could do that to her. Yet the very same treatment towards me is perfectly fine.

What's funny is that his own wife (daughter of Ms. 144,000 special) is on reproof for stealing almost $3000 from her employer. They get drunk every weekend. Hang out with a difellowshipped kid and his girlfriend. Yet WE are shunned by them.

It's so sad it really is funny!

Thanks again for your comments.

All the best,

Vinny

77

The Question Non-Jws hate to hear! (Unless they're athiests)

by Mad in

did jesus have a god that he worshipped?

Vinny

Poor Madd, he keeps trying to make a point. But never seems to be able to.

Here is the problem you have on your hands now Mr Madd; I am not convinced that the Trinity teaching is scriptural. I am more on your side of this issue than on the side of some hard-core Trinitarians out there. I am still examining the evidence. I have followed some of these threads and read other sites. But to be honest, this subject of the Trinity is not really at the top of my priority list.

And here's why:

Trinitarians believe there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

JW's believe there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Either way, Jesus is the one who sacrificed his life for me. The Father sent him to do that. I am forever indebted to BOTH regardless of their exact, specific position in relation with one to the other. MOST people that I know of, who are Christians, that are not JW's do not believe that Jesus is equal to the Father. I was raised as a Methodist, Baptist and Catholic and I never felt that way even then. Same goes for many I know today.

Whether Jesus is equal to the Father or not; Whether the Holy Spirit is Personal or Impersonal; Whether there is a burning Hell or eternal sleep-like non existence; whether there will life in Heaven itself or on a Paradise Earth; whether the 144,000 is literal or figurative and probably another 100 different things I could list here, what REALLY matters here is that we, as professed followers of Christ, live each day of our lives trying to imitate him as best we possibly can.

Applying His teachings in our life.

The Golden Rule for example.

The Sermon on the Mount teachings.

Cultivating the Fruitage of the Spirit.

Being like the "Good Samaritan".

Showing Love to all mankind.

Working more on humility.

Being less judgmental.

More patient, more forgiving, more helpful and loving as well as another 100 other things I could post here.

These things are what really matters folks.

Whatever these other things end up being, we can all know one thing for sure, it will be wonderful. If life after death is in Heaven or on a Paradise Earth, it will be fine with me. Whether Jesus is equal to the Father or subject to Him, it will not change my love for either of Them. Just focus on being a True Christian is what worship to me is all about. The rest will all be Grand, whatever it turns out to be. I'll be sure to take it. If I am ever given the opportunity.

That alone destroys the "One True Faith" status. People die for that policy, right now, today.

And we still have literally hundreds, thousands actually of other problems to contend with in addition to Blood. Shunning for disagreements. Shunning for disassociating. No beards. No voting, birthdays, holidays, yoga, bingo. Not to mention a dozen end of the world mispredictions, the NO Vaccinations, NO Organ Transplant, NO Alternative Service life wrecking policies FORCED on all JW's and then quietly made conscience decisions without apologies. I can post many pages more if you'd like.

Why not just turn in your DA letter and move forward to better things?

**** Sorry kiddie-A, NOT true. Why not tell the board how we just so happened to "get here" then.

117

I'm Attending the Memorial

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

my lovely girlfriend and i sat down over a homecooked meal, and discussed the pros and cons of attending the memorial.. i decided, with her support, that we would attend.. i spent years of my life pretending to be a witness to please my mother.

when i left the witnesses, my mother said some hurtful things.. and those things really hurt me... for a while.

but i established myself as my own person, developed my own relationships, and have gotten a good start on my own life.. i don't know that i want to hurt my mother back, but i do want to make it abundantly clear to her, my grandmother, and all the members of my former congregation, that richierich is alive and kicking.. and i think that walking into the kingdom hall, dressed respectfully in a suit, yet with full piercing jewelry intact, and with erika wearing something classy that steals the brother's eyes, and draws glares from the humble sisters, will be just the thing to send that message to my mother.. i don't plan on partaking or making a disturbance.

Vinny

I agree with those that think it's a bad idea. It gives the JW's the guaranteed thought that there is hope, you are having doubts, your life outside JW's is going poorly, you are ready to come back etc etc. In fact, I was begged to go last year by my former bible study (whose parents are JW's). I told him under no circumstances would I do that. For the very reasons listed above. People will think Vinny will be back soon, he went to the memorial. He is coming to his senses. We are in the only truth and he is figuring that out once again.

No, in fact by my NOT attending last year, or this time either, people just might stop to think for a second or two longer. I was a very serious, zealous brother and elder. Somewhere, at some point, even if just in the back of their minds, these programmed, controlled and manipulated JW's just might think maybe Vinny is right afterall.

I went to a funeral last month which showed all the respect they will ever get from me. I was not happy being there. And you will not be happy being there either. And if you did stay home, then your decision to leave WT-world carries an even greater impact in my opinion.

Just my two cents.

Best,

Vinny

41

wow, what a response!

by Matt_fs in

i simply asked a friend of mine to explain to me deut 20:20-22 and he wrote this:.

"its really quite simple what i think about deut.18:20-22. i don't.

the hebrew scriptures describing aspects of the original law convenent ended when the new convenent came into place by means of christ's death.

Vinny

My bad. Here is the correct link for that Current Watchtower page of hypocrisy:

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm

41

wow, what a response!

by Matt_fs in

i simply asked a friend of mine to explain to me deut 20:20-22 and he wrote this:.

"its really quite simple what i think about deut.18:20-22. i don't.

the hebrew scriptures describing aspects of the original law convenent ended when the new convenent came into place by means of christ's death.

Vinny

Here are just a few issues for your friend to think about. I've posted these elsewhere before. Specifically for Madd as well. He likes to hide from all this info over and over again though.

Your JW friend has not a CLUE... yet!!

The end of the system was predicted, in writing, in these years: 1874, 1875, 1881, 1888, 1914, 1915, 1918, (could occur in 1920), 1925, ("resurrection of Princes" in 1929), 1932, 1940, ("any day now" in 1942), ("why not now" in 1951), 1975, and before the generation that was born in 1914 dies, which was dropped in 1996 after it was clearly another false prediction. Every one of these predictions, in writing, has proved false. People sold homes, gave up opportunities to start families, secure employment, gave up opportunities for an education and instead spread a message of doom that was simply untrue with each prediction made. All of these failed.

*** A blood *transfusion* is not the same as eating or drinking blood as has been illustrated with the: "If a doctor told you to abstain from alcohol, but instead of drinking it, you transfused it into your veins..." illustration that the society often uses. If a person was starving to death and was given multiple blood transfusions instead of food, he would still die. A transfusion of blood replaces the volume of blood lost (much like replacing an organ) which is needed to sustain life, nothing more. No nourishment is gained by a blood transfusion, as would be the case when eating or drinking the blood, which is forbidden. This illustration often used by the society does apply with alcohol and other digestible foods, but not for blood. It simply stays in your system indefinitely.

*** The scriptures in both the Hebrew and Greek sections of the bible, which say: "blood must be drained out" and to, "abstain from... blood" were always referring directly to the eating or drinking of animal blood. The blood of the animal that had been killed was to be "poured out" rather than eaten or drank. This token act of faith demonstrated to Jehovah that the life that had been taken belongs to him. The blood of the animal represents the life of that animal. Humans do have the right to take animals for food only because the creator allows us to do so. Pouring out the blood first, acknowledges this arrangement. By including modern day blood transfusions in the current application of these verses however (which is not the same as eating or drinking of animal blood), the society is going beyond what is actually written in its application. In addition, the one supplying the blood for a transfusion has not died at all, which was always the case when an animal was bled. A "living" donor instead provides the needed volume of blood-fluid that has been lost for another "living" individual. And in many cases over the years, as a last resort this has been and can still be a life-saving medical act. In other cases by refusing this particular medical treatment because of our stand against blood transfusions, lives have been and will continue to be lost. Is this what Jehovah wants, and is this premature loss of life really necessary?

*** We can also learn something about this from Jesus very own example. Jesus was also willing to perform miracles on the Sabbath (something against the mosaic law) in order to save lives, or even just heal the sick. Would not Jesus have made an exception then to a dietary rule in order to save a human life? In Luke 14:5-6, the bible account says: "And he said to them: "Who of YOU, if his son or bull falls into a well, will not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?" 6 And they were not able to answer back on these things." The account in Mathew 12:11 goes even further, it says: "So they (Pharisees) asked him "Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?" that they might get an accusation against him. 11 He said to them: "Who will be the man among YOU that has one sheep and, if this falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not get hold of it and lift it out? 12 All considered, of how much more worth is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath." If Jesus was willing to value the life of an ANIMAL enough to rescue that animal's life despite this "work" being done on a Sabbath, how much more so then should the life of a human being be given priority over the strict interpretation of the law? Well, we need not really ask since Jesus answered this himself when he said in verse 12, "All considered, of how much more worth is a man than a sheep!". Yes rescuing a sheep from a pit on the sabbath is the loving and merciful thing to do. Additionally, Jesus performed many other miraculous works on the Sabbath. Yet to work on the Sabbath was to bring the death penalty upon oneself. And in fact, the scriptures actually record this penalty being meted out to a Sabbath violator. (See Exodus 35:2; Numbers 15:32-36. Here we see clear evidence though that Jesus appreciated the principle that love triumphs over law. That when life is at stake, (even an animal's life), rules can be set aside as circumstances require. LIFE is valuable and precious. Jesus showed this love for life and people over and over. While by contrast the oppressive, rule-keeping religious leaders often missed the entire purpose of the law. By not allowing a blood transfusion to be given, especially in last-resort situations, but rather allowing these ones to die instead, is the proper "respect" for life being shown as Jesus clearly demonstrated? Imagine if this involved allowing one of "our own" to die due to such a strict stand by the society.

*** I've also appreciated another example that demonstrates this same "principle" of Jesus' valuing a person's life over the written law. It had to do with the woman who had a flow of blood for 12 years. Under the Mosaic Law a running discharge made her "unclean", and anyone even touching her would also have to wash and be considered unclean until evening. However, she went even further than this by actually touching Jesus garment secretly in hopes of getting healed without anyone knowing. Jesus as we know, perceived that power went out from him and realized what she had done. Others too were watching. Notice though, that rather than condemn this woman for what she did, Jesus instead compassionately tells her: "Your faith has made you well. Go in peace, be in good health from your grievous sickness...." Once again we can see the spirit of the law (and the value of a human life) taking precedence over the supposed letter of the law, which the woman had clearly broken.

So then, when I add up all of the facts listed above here; that blood transfusions are not the same as eating blood. That the scriptures themselves are always referring to the "eating or drinking" of animal blood that is forbidden (not transfusions). How Paul shows at 1 Corinthians. 8:4-8 that the Acts 15:29 command is not all encompassing command but had a particular purpose. That Saul's men were not killed after eating blood. How the strictest of Jews today allow blood transfusions. That Jesus clearly demonstrated how life (even that of an animal) was more important than a narrow, strict interpretation of the law, with the "animal that fell into a pit on the Sabbath" illustration he used, and the "Woman with a flow of blood" real-life example. How the one donating blood is a LIVE donor and offering this blood to another person that is also alive and in need. That the Society was wrong before about forbidding vaccinations and organ transplants and then reversed these decisions. Many loyal Witnesses nonetheless died from such stands. And, the Society has now changed its position once again, instead of saying no to all blood, to now say "fractions" of blood are acceptable, even though the particular fractions approved and disapproved seem to have no particular rhyme or reason and we are still not allowed to donate blood nor store their own. Though we can use cow's blood. It seems fairly easy for me then, to come to the conclusion that I can no longer support the society's position on blood transfusions today. In fact I believe it was an erroneous decision from the beginning, and has only been made even more confusing and unstable with the latest "fractions" adjustments.

Despite the numerous errors in doctrine, medical mistakes, weird science end of the world false predictions and unscriptural blood transfusion bans that fill its pages of history, the society still DEMANDS full and complete support of its policies and doctrines today. Notice this comment from a 5/1/72 WT (page 272): "That they [Jehovah's Witness] must adhere absolutely to the decisions and scriptural understandings of the Society because God has given it this authority over his people."

So, in the end, we have what many would consider as extremely damaging, impossible to refute facts that thoroughly undermine the Watchtower Society's claim that it alone is God's one true faith on earth today. That core belief is in my opinion the GLUE that keeps everything else together for JW's. Without THAT foundation of belief that this religious organization IS the one truth on earth, everything else involved with the religion begins to fall apart. The willingness to be loyal despite doubts lessens and lessens. If somebody, or some thing comes along and actually hammers away at that one major, core-belief (that this alone is God's Organization), if something is learned that completely challenges this foundational trust in the WT Society, then from my experience, the entire JW belief system can collapse like a house of cards. For example the demands of their highly structured routine THEN become too much to bear. The having to shun good friends and family members (perhaps permanently) no longer makes any sense. The many sacrifices such as giving up holidays, birthdays, voting, college, sports, casual dating, facial hair, yoga, etc etc start to look foolish and perhaps even embarrassing. Allowing a loved one to die by refusing a blood transfusion now seems preposterous. Watching a good,moral person be labeled and shunned solely based on their walking away from a religious institution now seems grossly unfair and extremely unchristian. Once again though, by fully believing that the WT Society IS God's True Faith all of these things are tolerable. Take that faith away and none of it makes sense any longer.

When I personally learned about the mistakes on Vaccinations and Organ Transplants it simply damaged the credibility of the organization as a whole. It was at that point that an honest, THOROUGH examination of the Watchtower Society began on my part. An examination that only made things much, much worse in the end. If this is God's true and only channel, how then can they be so wrong, so often, on doctrine, medical issues, end of the world predictions, and yet still demand complete obedience from its members or face risk of complete shunning? This is also why I chose to leave the faith altogether one year ago. The bible has no such list of wacky opinions, medical blunders or false prophecies despite being written thousands of years ago. The Watchtower history on the other hand is FILLED with these very things; wacky ideas, medical embarrassments and many false end of the world statements. All written within the last 100 or so years. This is a huge problem.

In addition to all of the past mistakes and embarassing writings, there is also still the current list of issues. Here are just a few you can ask your JW friend about:

CURRENTLY Witnesses cannot formally leave the WT Society without being shunned and punished by all JW's, including your own family for the rest of their life.

CURRENTLY NO brother wearing a beard is allowed congregational privileges. This policy is actually a CONTRAST to bible teachings

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to celebrate his or anybody's birthday without risk of expulsion. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to vote without risk of being expelled. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness can celebrate Mothers Day Fathers Day, Thanksgiving, New Years Day 4th of July or many other holidays without risk of being expelled. Not found in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to work as a police officer or any other occupation where he carries a firearm and remain exemplary (or be used in the cong). Not in the bible. Used as a protection and to maintain order.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that plays sports in school, becomes a cheerleader or joins after school clubs is viewed favorably.

CURRENTLY ALL Sisters are expected to wear dresses to all meetings and field service. No pants, jumpsuits, shorts etc. allowed. Not found in the bible.
CURRENTLY NO Witness can play the lottery without risk of expulsion. Nowhere found in the bible

CURRENTLY NO Witness is allowed to participate in Martial Arts or Yoga. This policy is found nowhere in the bible.

CURRENTLY NO Witness that owns his own business can perform any services on church or military institutions. This policy is found nowhere in the bible

CURRENTLY NO JW that averages less than double digits in the ministry qualifies for congregational responsibilities. (You can dip occasionally below but not on an average basis).

CURRENTLY one cannot accept a whole blood transfusion without being disfellowshipped even if dying is the likely result. Yet one can accept certain fractions of blood, even though other smaller oftentimes more vital fractions are not allowed. JW's do use these fractions taken from the worlds blood supply, often in great quantity, yet are not allowed to donate blood back into this very same blood supply they have taken from. And CURRENTLY Witnesses are not even allowed to withdraw and store their OWN blood for surgery or other emergencies.

CURRENTLY there is the Watctower's official website page of hypocrisy where all others are encouraged to examine their own faith, be willing to make a stand, even if different yet if a Witness does this very same thing they will be expelled.

www.watchtower.org/librar...cle_03.htm

CURRENTLY no bible study is told of all the past medical mistakes that cost thousands of lives, nor that the JW's mis-predicted the end of the world a dozen times, nor that thousands of brothers went to prison for refusing alternative service for 50 years before being made "conscience" matters. They are also never told that if you choose to leave the organization you will be shunned for the rest of your life unless you come back in full agreement with all current teachings. Nor are they ever told they cannot disagree with any current teachings. Bible studies will never know these things. I have personally found this out the hard way.

This will do for starters. Pick whatever you think will catch his attention. There is no chance that the JW's are God's organization today. I disassociated one year ago, after being a 16 year Witness and elder.

All the best,

Vinny

33

IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM - Ray Franz

by compound complex in

dear friends, .

some have expressed interest in the above title and their wish to have it for themselves.

the chapter of particular importance to many of us is "legalism - opponent of christian freedom.

Vinny

Best JW material I have seen anywhere. A real masterpiece. Nothing helps one to to see the true JW picture more than that book!