so we all know that "crazy" brother or sister.
every kingdom hall has one.
they give the best comments (from a hilarious perspective), have experiences with the "demons", but most importantly, they are on about 10 deifferent kinds of medications.
"Just because some guy has a mental episode that drives him to go nuts and run into walls or book cases, does mean we take the easy way out and say it's black magic."
I'd say that's a pretty rational explanation... He's totally normal (now) and a really cool guy to hang out with. But that's not to say he had some mental problem ailing him back in the 90's.
i love the people who go to my congregation.
they are sweet, friendly, and lovable.
(which is one of the things that makes being awake so much easier.
I love the people who go to my congregation. They are sweet, friendly, and lovable. (Which is one of the things that makes being awake so much easier.) But elderly ones and the sweet friends who are "a little off their rocker", always give the most epic comments. Here are some I can remember.
Dealing with the BIBLE account of circumcision: "Paul had to talk to the Governing Body in NEW YORK in order to know what to write in his letters." (She may have meant Antioch, but it was still funny non-the-less.)
The WT conductor on the talents: "If you don't think 20 talents is a lot of money... well...then keep it to yourself." Said jokingly and laughter ensued.
Before the redesigned website and apps: "If you can run an iPad, then you can run a bible...because they both require fingers!"
Crowning moment of JW droning: "It's better to be wrong WITH the organization, than being correct on your own."
What are some of the best "comments" you've heard? I'll keep jogging my memory. I should write these down when I hear them!
so we all know that "crazy" brother or sister.
every kingdom hall has one.
they give the best comments (from a hilarious perspective), have experiences with the "demons", but most importantly, they are on about 10 deifferent kinds of medications.
So we all know that "crazy" brother or sister. Every Kingdom Hall has one. They give the best comments (from a hilarious perspective), have experiences with the "demons", but most importantly, they are on about 10 deifferent kinds of medications. Well it's pretty easy to dismiss their stories about their personal experiences with "the spirit realm". And with the "crazies", those stories are a dime a dozen.
But I got to thinking, there are SOME stories involving the demons, that are not from schizophrenic loopies. In fact, in my circuit there are two well known stories. Being ambiguous as possible:
One involved an elder (sub-CO), a smart man, and his wife. They were not drooling WT drones as most witnesses are. They own their own business and have a nice home a cars. But after inheriting a mounted deer head, they awoke that night to some banging in the house. When the elder came to the hallway to investigate, (ball bat in hand) the mounted head was floating and started to chase him. Slamming the bedroom door shut, he got his wife out of the house, went back in, and yelled scriptures at it until in fell limp on the ground. He took it outside and burned it. Even now, they refuse to talk about, or be involved in, anything remotely associated with demonism.They would have no reason to make up a story. So what was it?
Another story involved 4 of the 10 members of the BOE in the Hall I grew up in. While helping a young man to leave his worldly (and honestly, weird) lifestyle behind, 4 elders met with him in the Library of the Kingdom Hall. During the meeting however, the young man was flung into the walls (damaging them) and into the book shelves containing the Bound Volumes (knocking them down). One elder pissed his pants (and he admits to it this day), another ran OUT of the Hall, and the other two just tried saying Jehovah's name and speaking scriptures. It didn't work, and for 6 or 7 minutes the young man was beat up. The paramedics had to be called. He spent 9 weeks in ICU, but never suffered another "demon attack" again. He is now CONVINCED this is the truth. Also, we had to use the local building fund to repair the damaged walls and buy new bookshelves. And every meeting afterward seemed to have a local needs about the dangers of spiritism. I remember the CO and DO making quite a few trips to our hall after that experience. Eventually someone from the branch had to be sent to calm down the congregation. (Brother Geoffrey Jackson BEFORE he served as a member of the GB.)
As you may know, I'm leaning toward atheism. But stories like this make me wonder. Can there be a spirit realm but no God? If these things are not demons, then what are they? I've heard about 100 demon stories over the years, 95% of them are rubbish, I am sure. But every once in a while...one comes along that just creeps me out. And I would never believe it if it weren't backed up by evidence (or told by credible individuals). But like the second story, 4 elders, physical damage to the Kingdom Hall, visits from HQ regarding it? I'd feel foolish DENYING it happened.
Anyways, share your experiences or thoughts on this subject!
if you recall, i'm just coming to grips with ttatt and atheism after a few years of doubts.
made a long post around here, a while ago, talking about the very subject.
but, anyways.... so the other day, my wife was telling me how she was just exhausted and "peopled out.
If you recall, I'm just coming to grips with TTATT and atheism after a few years of doubts. Made a long post around here, a while ago, talking about the very subject. But, anyways...
So the other day, my wife was telling me how she was just exhausted and "peopled out." She didn't really feel like going to the meeting that evening either.
What did I do?
Well, like a real bonehead, I told her she needed to go to the meeting to get... wait for it... "HOLY SPIRIT" and she would feel better. She is a REAL HARDCORE JW and never questions anything. And, although she suffers from depression..., she really does feel better when she goes to meetings or out in service. I think it makes her feel less guilty, maybe?
But on our way to the Hall, I was thinking... 'Did I really just do that? What is wrong with me!?'
Anyways...a couple Sundays later was the same thing... I was determined not to make the same mistake twice. We stayed home. She felt miserable afterward for missing the meeting, and terribly guilty. But I think playing into her natural inclinations to stay home are where I want to focus my efforts...for now.
Did any of you guys ever snap into "cult mode" when exiting? How long before that stops happening? Am I alone in that?
how many times have elders read their bible in its entirety?
these are the leaders that give counsel to married couples, to teenagers, to single girls and single boys on everything from marriage, education, sex, association, dress, and recreation..
how well do they know their bible?
I think of the 50 or so elders I've met in my lifetime...about 49 of them are experts on the Watchtower Doctrine and Dogma...and maybe only about 2 elders who were smart, loving, gentle, qualified shepherds. I think their good qualities came from experience, with people and life, over time. Not anything the WT taught them!
Aside from maybe a couple... I wouldn't trust an elder to walk my dog!
the trial:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yveo8-ntcc.
the whole video:.
This was one of the very first things I watched when I was "waking up". It didn't lead me to atheism, but it did open the door to that possibility. And it made it easier to swallow. It also prompted me to do ALOT of research on the events in the old testament that they brought up. It really brings into question the "character of God."
Anyone who is on the fence should definitely take a close look at this and think about what is being discussed. Not only is this great food-for-thought, but it is supremely written and acted out. I mean, it has Bootstrap Bill in it for crying out loud! (Stellan Skarsgård)
long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.
first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.
all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.
Thank you guys!
@Nathan Natas I've ALWAYS wondered about stuff like that. Like, what's up with that God? I will check some of that stuff out.
@Giordano I think that's an excellent bit of advice. (Especially since the family has experienced pedophilia trauma by an elder in the past.) It might hit home. Hopefully that will start to break away at some of the indoctrination.
Thank you everyone for your words of encouragement!
haha, "encouragement"... I'm still using Watchtower lingo!
long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.
first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.
all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.
Thank you every one for your replies and responses! It's strange... but I already feel a tiny bit better! (And to think...I was TERRIFIED to post here, for fear I might get caught!)
@FayeDunaway you know a good potato when you see one!
@millie210 Thank you for the welcome. I do listen to more than JUST the Kingdom Songs! lol
@cappytan Nice to know someone understands me! Thought I was alone in that! Whew....
@freemindfade "If you see it all the way through, you may go from coping with atheism to enjoying it." That is reassuring to know. Because it is not at all enjoyable right now...
@cofty "Be patient with yourself. Your heart will catch up with your head in it's own ." Thanks cofty, I look forward to that time when my heart and mind are in sync.
@DJS Great illustration! I love that movie!
@Finkelstein I think you're right. That's probably the best way to handle it. Hopefully I can create enough cracks to make her wake up on her own.
@done4good Thank you for the welcome. I will do that!
@OnTheWayOut Almost every brother who shows up to a meeting here or there has sound, stage, and mics. But to read and to pray? Whoa now... slow down! This BOE in my new congregation is very particular... and strange. I think, at the time, I was the only non-servant who got to read. Now the reading list is made up of only appointed men. But, we are Midwesterners, after all, so maybe that has something to do with it? I don't know! But good advice on the cope=enjoy point . Good luck with your wife and your mother!
I'm really glad I posted this topic. I think I see now that it is just going to take some time. ugh... oh well, what can you do?
so last night they played the convention cartoon.
there were a few laughs from the audience, overall though people seemed a little taken aback and tight lipped.
like no one gushed about it afterwards, no applause, just like it was nothing new at all.
It went over surprisingly well at my hall. (But we are mid-westerners after all!) Nobody, that I know of, seemed embarrassed of it, or even offended by it. But now that I think of it... it IS really condescending! Teaching adults with cartoons? Really Watchtower?
I do wonder what is going through the minds of the older ones who survived the Fred Franz era as these videos and cartoons are being shown in the Kingdom Halls... hmmm.... In my old Hall, there are even ones who came into the truth during the Rutherford days...
This isn't your grandpa's religion!
long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.
first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.
all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.
Hello everyone!
Long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster. First of all, I want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes. All the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening. (No matter how crazy some of them are!)
Anyways, a little about myself. I serve as a ministerial servant and as the accounts servant in a congregation that I've been in for 3 years now. I moved there when I married a girl I met in Pioneer School. (My Kingdom Hall was hosting the school. I never pioneered, she was the one doing all the work!) The Circuit Oveerseer practically set us up. He introduced us and he thought we'd be good for each other. (This was 4 years ago and I wasn't even serving at the time!) He was just, an overall, really nice, down-to-earth guy. He is no longer serving in the circuit work, he stepped down to get a real job. But anyhow, my wife and I remain close friends with him and his wife, and we call each other and talk often.
Now, I had read Ray Franz books before meeting this girl. And I was very confused. I went to an elder I trusted, and he "snatched me from the fire" (Jude 22,23) and set me straight. (That's another story!) He also asked the Circuit Overseer to talk to me as well. The CO came into the truth in his 20's and told me about his experience with 30 Years a Watchtower Slave. (Also another story!) Anyways, these were (and still are) two of the smartest men I have ever known. (They weren't your ordinary, run-of-the-mill, janitorial elders.) They acknowledged that the WTBS had it's problems... but that we needed to muscle through the "golden calves" of the organization to get to "the promised land."
Fine. Good enough for me!
Then I got married. The elder whom I talked to about my doubts gave our wedding talk 6 months later. And the CO (still serving in our circuit) attended. In fact, we rearranged our wedding dates to work with his Circuit schedule. (I know that might seem really stupid to some of you, but we really loved them, and so we did it, and it was no big deal for us.)
Once we got married, "privileges" came at me faster than I could keep up! Sound, Stage, and Mics were dumped on me the first week, then a month later I was assigned as a Watchtower and CBS reader, and I was put on the schedule to pray at the meetings. (Which I felt really bad about because there were brothers who had been in that congregation their whole lives and hadn't got to do any of that stuff!) Sometime later, I was given the congregation accounts, made a service group assistant, then finally, a Ministerial Servant.
As you can see, I was kept busy for a 25 year old kid! But then I had a part about blood. And that's when I "re-awoke". I thought, 'Wait a minute...this is nuts. I could NEVER deny my wife (or future child) medical care or a blood transfusion. Just because of a few shaky scriptures? And one of them was because Paul was condemning pagan rituals to false gods that involved "eating" (or drinking) blood!'
Well...it snowballed from there. Since then, I re-delved back into Ray's books. Read more and more about science, the history of religion (and the WBTS), even reading sites like this, jwstruggle, and freeminds. Bart Ehrman was also a huge breath of fresh air for me as well.
Anyways, the more I research, and the more I use my own thinking ability; I don't believe there is a God. (It took me a couple years to reach that conclusion.) I WANT, so badly, to believe in a God... and I keep looking for shreds of evidence that he exists (or if he does exist...that he cares about us). No, I can't tell you where the universe came from...but neither can you tell me where God came from!
When I believed the JW religion hook, line, and sinker...the promise of a paradise was a comfort I held dear throughout my entire life. Then when I was transitioning, I felt maybe the WT was just wrong and heaven was a very real possibility. Not as good as the paradise...but it was something! Now... life feels so short, bleak, and finite.
I know some of you here are atheists, some even having previously believed in God, or even the JW religion. How did you cope knowing that there was no eternal reward? No afterlife? How do you view your life now? Do you live your life differently? That's where I'm at now. I'm trapped in a JW religion that I know is complete BS. But I have very little hope that my hardcore wife will wake up. I don't know what to do or where to turn. (I'm barely coming to grips with atheism!)
So, any tips for realizing that this life is all we have?
Just listening to Dust In The Wind by Kansas the other day brought me to tears! (I'm a sap, I know!) Anyways. Sorry for the long post, and to those of you who stuck it out till the end, thank you. You get a gold star!
humblepotato
