Posts by Pahpa

6

Watchtower says Christians should have Personal Relationship with Jesus?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

here are some quotes which say that true christians should have an intimate, close relationship with jesus, which is different from what they say most of the time.

usually they always say that we must not pray or talk to jesus or god will destroy you for idolatry!.

"revelation" book (1988), page 53:.

Pahpa

Quotes from the Watchtower don't often reflect the reality of Jehovah's Witnesses. First, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only the "anointed" have this close personal relationship with Jesus as "sons of God." Only the "anointed" are allowed to partake of the "body" and "blood" of Christ during the Memorial. Whereas the Bible teaches that Christ is the mediator and savior of mankind, the Watchtower teaches that the organization is necessary for both. Jehovah's Witnesses must now take an oath to that organization at baptism. The Bible teaches that one should be baptised in the "name of Jesus."

It is obvious that from time to time the Watchtower becomes aware of the criticism that Jesus does not play a major role among Jehovah's Witnesses. It will then make an effort to print some articles or have a theme that will bring him to the fore. But most of the time Christ comes after the organization in importance. Perhaps, it is best illustrated by the words of a Jehovah's Witness to a "worldly" person: "Oh, we don't emphasize Jesus."

14

List some examples where JWs get to have it both ways

by ithinkisee in

increase in jws evidence of divine blessing when people are joining the jws in large numbers, they say it is "evidence of jehovah's blessing".

(watchtower july 1, 2002, p.13, paragraph 17-19).

but ... when the numbers are down they claim it's because "the greater number has cooled off".

Pahpa

One of the first "double standards" that the Watchtower promotes is telling the public that one should "examine one's religion" to see if it is "the truth." Yet, one the other hand, any JW doing the same with the Watchtower organization can be disfellowshipped.

34

Archangel Michael ...

by jelcat8224 in

does anyone know if the wts is still teaching that jesus is/was the archangel michael?

i think i remember hearing that they were trying to phase this teaching out.

i can't remember why.

Pahpa

It is the dogmatic statements of the Watchtower that is so disturbing. If the Watchtower pointed out that Jesus comes with "with the voice of an archangel" as indicated in 2 Thess. 4:16 and that an "archangel" means chief angel one could accept these statements as truth. But it is when the Watchtower steps beyond these statements to conclude that "Jesus is the archangel, Michael" that it oversteps its authority and "goes beyond what is written."

17

Does anybody remember?

by Amber Rose in

Pahpa

I guess the Watchtower's only defense against such charges is denial. And JWs parrot the organization's response. However, I'm sure that such programs have a large impact on people studying with JWs and those in the organization that already have doubts.

The fact that the Watchtower has had a number of articles dealing with subjects like child abuse illustrates that it is aware of the criticism and is reacting accordingly.

21

Would I be dfd if?

by FourMs in

jw
friends

well, let me fill you in on a few things first.

i have stopped all jw activity since a few months and as mentioned in other posts, i am being stalked by every elder and car group looking to stretch their service time.

when they come i just ignore them by not answering the door (or the phone when they call).. today they came (for the 3rd time in 3 days) and when i went outside a few hours later my neighbor was out front of his house and after some small talk, he informed me that i had some dressed up people come to my door.

Pahpa

It varies from congregation to congregation. It largely depends on the elders. If they are "gung ho" they will probably be persistent until they talk with you to determine your current status. If the elders are overwhelmed with other problems they probably will make only an initial effort and go on to more "important matters." However, if concerned relatives are pressing the elders you may expect more visits from them.

It's difficult to make a "fade" if you are living in the same area as your local congregation. Most of the successful "fades" I have known are individuals who have moved into a new area and just never started associating again.

15

Might this explain why it's hard for older Witnesses to question the truth?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

have you heard of that famous book the tipping point by malcolm gladwell?

well i thought i would have a go at his more recent book called blink which is about subconscious split-second decisions.

generally i would say it is an overrated if entertainingly written book.

Pahpa

There are many factors that are at work that make it harder for older JWs to question "the truth." Many those who converted find it difficult to admit that they made another mistake with regard to religion. Older Witnesses have years of commitment to the cause and are reluctant to admit that all those years were a wastel. Also, their whole "support system" is in their association with other JWs. And they realize that they would have to alienate family and friends to break away from the organization. (In this, the Watchtower Society uses "spiritual blackmail" to keep the members in the ranks.)

8

Does Isaiah 25:8 indicate Jews expected to live forever on earth?

by jwfacts in

the watchtower uses two scriptures from isaiah as proof of people living forever on paradise earth.

isaiah 65:17-25 actually does not say people will live forever, in fact the opposite, it says man will fulfill his days and die.. for here i am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.

18 but exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what i am creating.

Pahpa

In Revelation, John links it with New Jerusalem (Rev. 21) that comes "down out of heaven." He says: "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.....There will be no more death or mourning or crying for pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

15

Daniel 4:1-37, "Seven times"

by Son of John in

daniel 4:1-37, "seven times".

what was the tree like, before it was cut down?

the situation is described in daniel 4:11, 12:.

Pahpa

There is nothing in Daniel 4 that indicates a fulfillment other than that which applies to Nebuchadnezzar. Indeed, Daniel describes its fullfillment in the chapter. And there is no reference in the N.T. that links it in anyway to the "Gentile Times." Carl Olaf Jonnson noted in his book, The Gentile Times Reconsidered: "The first expositor known to have arrived at a period of 2,520 years was John Aquila Blrown in 1823." Various commentators used different dates to note the "end" of this period: W. Pym - 1847, J. Fry - 1844, J. Bengal - 1836, W. Holmes - 1836

One of the most prominent and influential men, William Miller, thought the "seven times" would end in 1843. When his movement fell apart, many of his followers began to set new dates. Eventally, Barbour and Russell determined that the "seven times" was from 606 BCE to 1914 CE. With a slight adjustment to 607 BCE, the Watchtower Society has held to these dates ever sincel....

11

I believe I am getting there

by Doug Mason in

in a recent post, i asked for help with a "jw" organization chart i am trying to create.. my greatest problem was with understanding the relationships at the "upper level" of the organization.

i have addressed this in some detail in my latest iteration and believe i am getting closer.. my picture is at:.

http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/org_chart.pdf.

Pahpa

Doug

It's a great chart. Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm glad you eliminated Jehovah and Christ Jesus over the Governing Body that appears in the Society's version.

90

This is the man who made it all happen!

by Terry in

william miller.. do you know how important this man has been to your life?

do you know your life would have been entirely different (without a doubt) had he not lived?.

read on!.

Pahpa

As I recall, Russell did make acknowledgment to the contribution that Miller made to the Bible Student movement. And even though he thought that Miller's calculations were premature, he considered Miller as a pioneer in prophetic intrepretation.

I have always admired Miller for making an apology to his followers before he died. If only Russell and others in the adventist movement could have been as forthright and honest, we might have a different spirit in those groups. Instead, they became entrenched in their own theology even when it was obvious that something was wrong.