Pahpa

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Posts by Pahpa

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  29

  important counsel about the BS changes... puke

  by song19 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i seem to be on a dubs spam list... anyhoo, i just recieved this now if you really want to read it.

  hello, brothers and sisters:.

  9 at that satan answered jehovah and said: "is it for nothing that jehovah's witness have feared god?

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  Pahpa

  Ah, the shifting sands of Watchtower policy.... A few years ago, the BS was the "most important meeting" we had because Kingdom Halls were going to be closed down. In a complete reversal, it seems the BS has been demoted to the least important meeting sandwiched in between other meetings.

  But it is amusing to see how some "die hard" JWs try to justify these changes by claiming it is Jehovah's direction. But, then, isn't God suppose to be unchanging...."the same today, tomorrow and always?" Well, I guess it's a lesson lost on most JWs.
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  28

  Do young JWs care about the dates 1914 or 1919 anymore?

  by 1914BS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt mags are using the word "1914" and "1919" less often because jw teenagers today could not care less about the hard core teachings of the past.

  the jw religion today is not the same religion it was even 10 years ago.

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  Pahpa

  still-fading

  As to children leaving with their parents, I think it largely depends upon the age of the children. If they are married to mates that are "gung ho" Witnesses, the chances are that they will stay in the organization and shun their parents. On the other hand, younger children will have no choice. They will follow their parents and probably be relieved that they no longer have to follow the strict regimen of meetings and service. But we are told that 2/3rds raised in the organization leave once they make their own decisions. (PEW report) Whatever the circumstances, the loss of so many young JWs belies the claim of the Watchtower that children who are "trained in the truth" become faithful members. But, of course, the leaders of the organization put the blame on the parents anyway and thereby add to the guilt of an already overburden membership.

  To many of the young in the congregation, the dates are "ancient history." But any significant change will still cause some to re-evaluate the whole Watchtower belief system. For example, the change in "this generation" teaching was the "last straw" for some even though the majority accepted it as "new light." The fact is that there has been an constant erosion in the membership in the last few years that is hidden because of increase of new converts.
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  6

  Can someone tell me, please...

  by TheSilence in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the latest on shunning disfellowshipped family members?

  is it a conscience matter or no?

  any quotes would be very helpful.

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  Pahpa

  Open mind

  I'm convinced that the Elders' Manual is just "wriggle room" in case of a change of policy somewhere in the future. Then the leaders of the organization can say that they really never forbid contact with df'd members...but just discouraged close association. But the fact is that it depends upon how elders and JWs interpret the rules and regulations from the Society. Most of the articles and talks released to the r/f emphasize that one should shun and avoid contact with df'd family members. And those who are obedient slaves to Watchtower rules continue this policy.

  When I sent a copy of the policy in the Elders' Manuel to my son-in-law (an elder) he wrote back and said that there would be no change in his shunning of us and that included his wife and children. As a result, we have not seen or heard from them in years. However, I've heard of other JWs who use this information from the Manual as an excuse to regularly associate with their df'd family members. And these don't seem to be censored for doing so. I really think the Society prefers to be ambivalent knowing that most of their members take a hard line in these matters.

  I've even heard a few elders say that it is a "personal choice." But I don't think most JWs think it is...
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  28

  Do young JWs care about the dates 1914 or 1919 anymore?

  by 1914BS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt mags are using the word "1914" and "1919" less often because jw teenagers today could not care less about the hard core teachings of the past.

  the jw religion today is not the same religion it was even 10 years ago.

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  Pahpa

  still-fading

  Good point. Three members of the GB proposed that "this generation" date could be moved from 1914 to 1957 to give the Society more time. (Apocalypse Delayed, Pg. 218) It was rejected by the other members. But it shows that even important dates and their explanations can be shifted to suit Watchtower purposes.

  We also know that Rutherford dropped Russell's date of 1874 and added 1914 as the beginning of the end to explain away the failures of Russell's predictions. So, the GB is not above adjusting dates. 1914 is more difficult because of its pivotal significance to the 1919 date. But it can always come up with "new light" which the r/f will accept.

  However, I don't think the younger ones care much. 1914 and World War I are just part of history for them. They have no living memory of those who lived during that period of time. Even the generation of WW II is fading from the scene.
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  19

  What do you feel is the reason the WTS succeeds in retaining its members?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most of my family have been members since the early 1970's.they attend 3 meetings per week,fly or drive to summer assemblies,preach the average 10 hours per month,and read the same boring watchtower magazine week after week.

  the congregation has lost nearly all the young teens,many have quit attending all the meetings,some divorced,and some members just going thru the motions.

  i'm never going to question them on why they still remain members but shouldn't all the promises of "this generation never dying" make them question the wts.... just a little?

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  Pahpa

  I don't think the Watchtower "retains" its members as much as it recruits new ones to replace those leaving. And much of the recent increases have occurred in third world countries where desperation rules. We've already learned that 2/3rds of those "raised as Jehovah's Witnesses" leave the organization. And we see on the Forum that many more members have left in the last few years.

  Also, it takes less time and commitment for one to be considered as a member in good standing in the congregation. This tends to "pad" the statistics. And what of the number who go through the motions of being members but only stay because of fear or intimidation?

  I think the Watchtower is not "suceeding" as much as it is supressing its membership.
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  22

  safe place KH?!?!?!!?

  by loosie in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  can anyone point me in the directions where i would stats on how many deaths have occurred at kingdom halls?

  i just got back from the bathroom barfing after reading this email.

  i wanted to respond to it with some stats.

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  Pahpa

  I remember hearing of a family that was killed on the way back from an assembly. I caused quite a stir in the circuit. Most Jehovah's Witnesses believed at the time that people were "protected" when attending such events. Later, the rumor was circulated that they were killed because they left the assembly early before the final prayer. At the time, I thought the comment was careless and bizarre. But many accepted it as a reason for this tragedy.
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  33

  Recent Literature Letter Sent out -Bound Volumes

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  briefly it stated that all those who make extensive use of the cd-rom should seriously consider whether or not they need bound volumes.

  these have to be next on the hit list of things cut imho

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  Pahpa

  Jehovah's Witnesses use the bound volumes much in the same way the Jews use the Tulmud. They are "commentaries" on the Bible which are readily referred to by elders and others. In recent years, though, some of the articles have become an embarrassment to the Watchtower Society since they expose the ever changing doctrines of the organization. It's another example that demonstrates the lack of faith it has in the Bible itself and in the intelligence of their members to discern the truth from the original source.
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  14

  IMO ~ The Great Tribulation and Armageddon

  by Flash in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  imo - the great tribulation:.

  occurs when religion is attacked.

  it appears to be a destructive power apart from god but without his intervention 'no flesh would be saved' on earth (matthew 24: 21 and 22).

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  Pahpa

  I recommend that you read Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror." She describes the horrible conditions that mankind experienced in the 14th century that convinced many they were living in the "end times" just as some do today. But it did not come then even as it did not come when Russell and Rutherford predicted specific dates.

  People living in a historical period really can't discern "the times." People tend to think that their generation is special and unique....even for the terrible conditions. That is the reason so many Christians anticipated "the end" in their own era.

  But it is clear from scripture that Christians should not be distracted by speculations and date settings. Christianity is a "way of life" that is motivated by love of God and love of neighbor. And every generation has enough needs to be met without getting side-tracked by things we can not know.
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  14

  IMO ~ The Great Tribulation and Armageddon

  by Flash in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  imo - the great tribulation:.

  occurs when religion is attacked.

  it appears to be a destructive power apart from god but without his intervention 'no flesh would be saved' on earth (matthew 24: 21 and 22).

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  Pahpa

  I tend to agree with Doug. There has been much speculation about Christ's return since the early church. Each generation of Christians hope that event will occur within their time. And a number of them thought they found the key to the understanding of prophecies. They even identified current events and organizations that seemed to fit the descriptions. But all were disappointed. Christ gave the best advice. Christians should keep their "lamps" lit and prepared for it....but be patient because we do not know when it will happen. He said it would come suddenly and without warning.
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  6

  If Daniel Had Been Governed by WT Doctrine and Policy ...

  by compound complex in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  isocf, "legalism - opponent of christian freedom," page 273: i think of this [daniel and his three companions' responding to their pagan names when addressed] when recalling some of the extreme measures witnesses have felt obliged to take to demonstrate "strict neutrality," "complete separateness from the world," primarily as a result of the organization's highly sensitizing them by its categorizing policies.

  there is an inordinate concern for how things will appear, rather than what the reality is.

  in the modern state of israel, witnesses who refused military service were imprisoned.

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  Pahpa

  I remember reading in the Bible of a faithful Hebrew who went into the pagan temple of his king to lend physical support. Does anyone remember the account? It always bothered me that the Watchtower made such a fuss of attending a church service for a wedding or funeral... even using a threat of disfellowshipping for the "offense."

  It's another case of selective reading and application by the Watchtower. But as Ray reminds us in his book, the Society was permeated with double standards and contradictions.