Posts by Pahpa

26

Happy is the Man!

by Elihu/Elijah in

hi firends,.

let's use and old witness saying; "turn a stumbling block into a stepping stone".

i was a member of a few congregations in the so-california desert area for many years.

I thought I had clearly answered your question by reminding you that it was the original discussion by Eliihu/Elijah. Is there something in this answer you don't understand? Or is it that you disagree with the response?

Now, I ask you: why did you make the point that you DO celebrate Christmas. Did you want to "spark controversy" with Elihu/Elijah? Do you want to "illicit a response?" Or do you want to express a "superior attitude?" I give you the benefit of the doubt that you do not. But since you asked me........

26

Happy is the Man!

by Elihu/Elijah in

hi firends,.

let's use and old witness saying; "turn a stumbling block into a stepping stone".

i was a member of a few congregations in the so-california desert area for many years.

Pahpa

non-JW

I make the point because it was part of the original discussion posted by Elihu/Elijah. I don't understand the intent of your question? Do you question the honesty of a person because you disagree?

megsmomma

Yes, I agree. A person can choose whatever he/she want to do. But the heart is often deceptive. Morality might be boring in comparison with immorality. But is immorality justified just because the heart leads one to it? It is obvious that many people are making wrong choices today because they allow their hearts to rule instead of their heads.

26

Happy is the Man!

by Elihu/Elijah in

hi firends,.

let's use and old witness saying; "turn a stumbling block into a stepping stone".

i was a member of a few congregations in the so-california desert area for many years.

Pahpa

Carmel

You can't be that unaware of the number of scriptures that proscribe pagan pactices. Of course, Christmas was a fourth century invention. But it is clear that early Christians did not celebrate the Saturnalia of the Romans or the Solis Invicti of the pagans. Rather, they followed the counsel of Paul.

"Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: 'The people sat down to eat and to drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry...." 1 Corinthians 10th chapter.

26

Happy is the Man!

by Elihu/Elijah in

hi firends,.

let's use and old witness saying; "turn a stumbling block into a stepping stone".

i was a member of a few congregations in the so-california desert area for many years.

Pahpa

Carmel

You can't be that unaware of the number of scriptures that proscribe pagan pactices. Of course, Christmas was a fourth century invention. But it is clear that early Christians did not celebrate the Saturnalia of the Romans or the Solis Invicti of the pagans. Rather, they followed the counsel of Paul.

"Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: 'The people sat down to eat and to drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry...." 1 Corinthians 10th chapter.

26

Happy is the Man!

by Elihu/Elijah in

hi firends,.

let's use and old witness saying; "turn a stumbling block into a stepping stone".

i was a member of a few congregations in the so-california desert area for many years.

Pahpa

Elihu/Elijah

Your evaluation is correct. Not all that we learned as Jehovah's Witnesses is automatically incorrect. In fact, I believe that some of the teachings are still valid. Sadly, many who were once JWs have equated the organization with God. So, when they abandon the Watchtower they also abandon the Bible and God.

The teachings of Christ remain the same. The incessant discussions about doctrines often blur the simplicity of the original "good news" that was proclaimed by Jesus and his disciples. But in the long run, we are judged by our conduct toward others. ("Deeds" not doctrine.) Christians can have genuine disagreements as to the meaning about Bible passages...yet remain united in Christ. It is only when we judge other believers that we overstep.

Like you, I believe that the pagan origins of the holidays such as Christmas prevent me from celebrating. But if fellow Christians decide to participate it will be between them and God. However, I do believe that Christians have the right to express their views however unpolular they may be.

19

Life Everlasting--in Freedom Of The Sons Of God--PDF!

by Atlantis in

this old book is a little weather-beaten but may still serve for some information purposes.

many researchers wanted this book for the "charts" as well as other important quotes, that could be used in helping jehovah's witnesses to become free from the watchtower.

by the mid-1960s the society had apparently forgotten much of what it had learned about the hazards of setting dates.

Pahpa

The Watchtower Society always left enough room for deniability. It wasn't even beyond blaming its members for reading too much into the Watchtower publications. This was particularly true of the 1975 fiasco.

We had circuit and district overseers who gave talks in the congregations and at the circuit assemblies that left no doubt in the minds of JWs where the Society stood on this date. I can remember one of them stressing that we were like the Israelites marching around Jericho for the seventh time. Another said that we no longer are to count the time in years, but rather in months, days and hours. These were representatives of the Watchtower Society whose words were considered to be the same as the governing body.

Of course, after the fact, the Watchtower Society and these elders seem to have collective amnesia.

3

Funny

by Shazard in

i got this new "all false religions going to end" tract put into my mailbox.

i guess coz of my country not being english speaking, there were only small sheet of it covered with these questions, what is false religion, bla bla bla.

what i noticed was funny thing, first they put down all the goverments and religions, and then ask question - which is true religion.

Pahpa

I recently had the new tract mailed to me as JWs are not allowed in our private community. But I could not resist in sending a letter to the person and congregation that sent it to me asking them to use the same standards in judging their own organization. False Religion "meddles in war and politics." What of the Society's attempt to pacify Hitler and the Nazis in the early 1930s? It "spreads false doctrines." Wasn't Russell a pyramidologist? Hasn't the Society promulgated dates for "the end" that are now rejected as false? It "tolerates immoral sex." Isn't the Watchtower organization coping with its own scandal of sexual abuse of minors? Doesn't the Society keep a data base of predators that it refuses to make public?

I also reminded them that the Watchtower Society joined the U.N. organization as a NGO. Wouldn't this make her part of the "harlot" of Revelation 17? I ended with the thought that Jehovah hates those who use a double standards: "Do not have differing measures in your house - one large, one small. You must have accurate weights and measures...For Jehovah you God destests anyone who does those things, anyone who deals dishonestly." (Deut. 25-13-16)

38

The truth about the donation arrangement

by Wolfgirl in

jw
friends

i never knew this...just found it today.

made me giggle.. payment of sales tax on literatureon 17 january1990 the u.s. supreme court made a ruling that sales tax must be paid on religious literature.

the following month, a letter from the watchtower society went out to all congregations stating that there would no longer be a set price for literature but that they would be given to the public on a donation basis.

Pahpa

The issue always seems to revolve around money or property. The desperate attempt of the Watchtower to defeat these rulings failed. So, the Watchtower put a spin on the situtation to make it seem that this new "contribution" arrangement is charitable and noble on its part. But, in fact, it is instituted only as a means to avoid paying taxes. (What happened to Jesus admonition "render to Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's?")

It's only the latest effort in a long list of failed "theocratic strategies." The Watchtower was willing to cozy up to the Nazis in Germany in the early 1930s to save its property in Magdeburg. It declared itself a "cultural organization" in Mexico to save its property there. (It even eliminated prayer and religious songs at the meetings.) In Bonham, Texas, it was willing to declare itself a legal "hierarchy" to keep control over the Kingdom Hall. And this is the organization that boasts it is honest and forthright in all its dealings!

13

Old WT literature

by Lady Lee in

i'm been going through my files on the computer and came across a lot of those little booklets we used to hand out.

many of them were outdated.

well no they all were outdated.

Pahpa

Lady Lee

I remember those campaigns where the old literature like these booklets were given out in multiples just to clear them out of stock. I always thought it odd that we would still distribute them when they were obviously "out of date" and contained information that was considered no longer appropriate. But that was before I realized that the whole Watchtower effort was a business venture. No wonder Rutherford termed the congregations as "companies" and the members as "publishers."

Do you remember when the monthly charts that were displayed on stage and discussed in length during the service meetings? One felt that it was a first class business meeting. Eventually, these were relegated to the bulletin board in back of the Kingdom Hall. It was also offensive when circuit overseers would come to the congregation and look over the publisher's record card to evaluate a person's spirituality. It seems that in their estimation it hinged upon "hours, backcalls and literature placements."

10

Holidays - A Christian View vs Witness view

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

eprinted from the book, refuting jehovah's witnessessee catalog.

holidaysby randall watters.

biblicaloverviewthere are a number of religious groups claiming to be christian that deny the celebration of holidays to their members, including christmas, easter, birthdays, mother's day, etc.

Pahpa

In spite of the rationalizations, for Christians the real litmus test should be "what would Christ do?" The early Christians were influenced by the Jewish origins of their movement. The Jews did their best to avoid even an appearance of pagan worship and customs. ("When you enter into the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there.") This is why the "world" looked down upon them and considered them to be antisocial. Similarly early Christians would rather face death in the arena than compromise one iota of their faith.

The so-called "victory" of Christianity over pagandom came much later when the church was well compromised. One senses that the motive was not purity of faith but numbers of members. By then, the church had tried to erase all traces of Jewish influence by adopting those practices which were abhorrent even to Christian Jews.

It must be noted that some early reformers also rejected the celebration of these "Catholic" holidays on the same basis that it was ungodly and pagan. So, it is not an exclusive view held only by Jehovah's Witnesses.