Posts by Pahpa

Watchtower Inc.

by Pahpa in

does anyone have more information about the other corporations that russell formed?

as i recall, one was something like the "u.s. cemetery corp." why were these formed?

when were they dissolved?

Pahpa

Does anyone have more information about the other corporations that Russell formed? As I recall, one was something like the "U.S. Cemetery Corp." Why were these formed? When were they dissolved?

59

i think it's hilarious that when you post facts there is still always someone arguing it.. makes you want to stop bothering if people don't want to learn.. but then again my family has only been in the truth for 100 years so what would i know?.

.

Pahpa

5th

Just a few thoughts to share with you:

If your family has been "in the truth" for a 100 years, you especially should understand the shifting of "facts" to suit the circumstance. It is similar to the use of statistics. One can use them to prove almost anything. Lawyers are masters at maneuvering "facts" to suit their own purposes.

Even the expression of "in the truth" is a dubious usage when it applies to the Watchtower Society. When, IN FACT, have they ever used "truth" as a basis of their religious organization?

So, I guess the only way we can determine "the facts" is through discussion and deliberation. And, even then, our conclusions may differ.

68

Just What Is The WT Up To Now?

by lovelylil in

has anyone heard about what is going on inside the organization these days regarding those who claim to be "anointed" christians?

i have had at least three different people now who live in different areas of the country tell me that the elders are systematically pushing out people who claim to have become anointed within the last few years.

these would be younger ones who are now professing the heavenly rather than earthly hope.. i find this interesting for several reasons.

Pahpa

Years ago our congregation and surrounding ones had a few old people who claimed to be of "the anointed" and partook the emblems at the Memorial. But these congregations were not under the supervision of these individuals. The "company servant" and his assistants were all of the "other sheep" class... still called "Jonadabs" by the older ones. It was understood that the "anointed" would diminish even as the "other sheep" would increase. But we were all assured that "some" of the anointed would be around when Armageddon arrived.

The real change came with the rapid increase in the 60s. We heard reports that some younger ones claimed to be of the "anointed." It was explained that Jehovah would fill the number of the remnant if some of them became unfaithful to their calling. But when the numbers partaking began to significantly increase this explanation failed to satisfy because many of the older ones had died by then. Who were the "unfaithful" that needed replacing?

Rutherford really boxed in the Society with this teaching. (Russell taught the "great multitude" was a heavenly class.) And now the Watchtower is trying to find an exit. But isn't it sad that it once again chooses drastic unchristian measures to eliminate a mistake of its own making. But, of course, its record of following the teachings of Christ is wanting.

8

CONGREGATIONS THAT FALL APART

by badboy in

jw
friends

were you in a congregation that fall apart?.

why did it happen?.

Pahpa

I've never been in a congregation that "fell apart." But I've heard of some that had to be disbanded or reorganized. The one that had national attention was the congregation in Bonham, Texas. It came to a legal disbute of who owned the Kingdom Hall property. The Watchtower Society's lawyers claimed that the Watchtower had legal rights to it as a "religious hierarchy." The court's decision divided the Kingdom Hall between the dissidents and members who remained faithful to the Watchtower Socitey. In the end, Jehovah's Witnesses conceded and built a new Kingdom Hall.

22

Mormons=JWs Read these quotes from Mormons to see the same mind control

by jwfacts in

i have been researching similar religions (christadelphians, church of god, sdas.

mormons, bible students) and just posted a new section at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/similar.htm.

below are comments from mormons and x mormons that i found on the internet.

Pahpa

There are two excellent books about the early history of the Mormons that I would recommend. The author, Ernest H Tavis had first hand knowledge of the Chruch of Latter Day Saints. "Trouble Enough" is about Joseph Smith and the origins of the Book of Mormon. The other book, "This Is The Place" is about Brigham Young and the New Zion established under his guidance. These are a "must" if any one is interested in the Mormon religion.

2

Does anything happen to a JW if they cause an unbaptised convert to leave?

by seatrout in

does anyone have congregational experience of an aftermath such as the above?

i once fell deeply in love with a jw (and vice versa) and the week before i was due to leave work some dubs came around to my home on my offday to convert me.

however, i refused to go since we had a serious fallout prior to them turning up.. a few months later i then entered the congregation to try to salvage the relationship, and went to two meetings, but i didn't declare to other jw's there that it was for an emotional need that i had turned up with the hope of being with her.

Pahpa

seatrout

I'm sure that your girl friend had a lot of pressure put upon her by her family and congregation elders from the very start. "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers" is still the mantra of the Watchtower Society. Undoubtedly, she had been commended when you broke off seeing her. And this is why she didn't want to resume the relationship.

Had you been studying with JWs for some time and regularly attending the meetings, you would have been viewed as a potential convert. Then, there might have been some concern that you were "stumbled." But since your interest was mainly in the girl, I don't think that any guilt was involved.

Her circumstances now have probably changed. So, if she has shown interest she probably is no longer influenced by her parents or elders.

33

The Seven Churches

by Pahpa in

here is a point to ponder:.

when john was instructed to write letters to the seven churches (rev.

1 - 3) as to "what is now and what will take place" (1:19) why were not the members of those bad churches advised "get out of her, my people?

Pahpa

Narkissos

Thanks for your input. I appreciate your comments even though we disagree.

9

Song of Solomon

by Zico in

the song of solomon is being covered in the kh highlights this week.

last night, the brother doing this talk went into detail about how this has a greater fulfillment, in that it applies to christ and the loyalty of his bride class, the anointed.

surely this is just a love story between solomon and the girl?

Pahpa

I remember reading about the Song of Solomon in one of the Commentaries. The Jews applied it to God and his relationship with Israel. So, it was an easy transition for Christians to use the same thought but apply it to Christ and "his bride." (This is not an exclusive Watchtower view.)

Some argue over the main characters and the plot of this book. Some feel that it is a love story between the king and this maid. Others introduce a third character, a shepherd lover, who wins the heart of this maiden over the blandishments of the King.

In any case, it is a beautiful love story. "Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyelding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame." It doesn't get much better than this.

33

The Seven Churches

by Pahpa in

here is a point to ponder:.

when john was instructed to write letters to the seven churches (rev.

1 - 3) as to "what is now and what will take place" (1:19) why were not the members of those bad churches advised "get out of her, my people?

Pahpa

CC

I'm not sure that it was a calculated plan to become an "evil" entity. I think that it evolved like any large organization. Russell seemed like a sincere and likeable inidividual. He certainly was held in esteem by many of the early Bible Students in spite of his obvious human faults. Rutherford, on the other hand, seemed ruthless and heartless. He came to his position as president of the Watchtower Society through very questionable means and treated his contemporaries without respect and dignity. By the time of Knorr's presidency, the organization had become a multi-level corporation that was more interested in growth and numbers than in the individual members themselves.

We see the same things happen with other religious groups. Usually, the original believers are motivated by high ideals and good intentions. Eventually, the new leaders want more control over the membership. So, they eliminate some of the original members and tighten the "rules" for the rest. It becomes like a spiritual "Animal Farm." They claim that "all are equal." But some "are more equal than others." So, the Watchtower is not unique in this regard. It has followed the same pattern of human weakness.

lovelylil

This is the conclusion that some of the Bethelites had reached as a result of their own Bible study in the late 70s and early 80s. It was one of the issues they confronted when the "witch hunt" occured at the headquarters. I was always curious even as a JW about the parallel similarity between Romans 1:28-31 and 2 Timothy 3:1-5.

Thanks all for the lively discussion. Its been stimulating and thought provoking. Pahpa

33

The Seven Churches

by Pahpa in

here is a point to ponder:.

when john was instructed to write letters to the seven churches (rev.

1 - 3) as to "what is now and what will take place" (1:19) why were not the members of those bad churches advised "get out of her, my people?

Pahpa

Carmel

There is another school of thought that each generation of Christians experience the events of Revelation and that its symbols change according to that particular time. I guess there is no end to the speculation or interpretation. The one caution we have is the warning not to add to or subtract from the "words of the prophecy of this book." (Rev. 22:18,19)