Posts by Pahpa

24

What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

CoCo & Yknot

Thanks for your encouraging words. My wife was born and brought up as a JW. She was not a student of scripture and did not understand most of the complexities of Watchtower doctrine Yet, she was always very generous and kind to others, inside and outside of the congregation. If a person was in need she was there to offer help and to give support regardless of whether this one was a member of the congregation or not. She was actually living the Christian way of life while many were merely talking about it. To me she was (and is) the embodiment of what Christ said a Christian should be. I knew others in our congregation who had the same qualities. But unless they were active in the ministry and in congregation meetings they were considered "weak" and marginal.

I always resented the fact that the visiting circuit overseers would evaluate the Publishers Record Cards to determine who was "spiritually strong." They never took into consideration the poor widow who generously contributed or the busy mothers who showed hospitality. These wonderful "gifts" were overlooked or discounted. Yet, in Christ's eyes I am sure they had more merit than distributing Watchtower propaganda!

24

What happened to the simplicity of the early church?

by Pahpa in

early christians were drawn together by their love of christ and each other.

most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world.

the gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith.

Pahpa

Early Christians were drawn together by their love of Christ and each other. Most were just hard working average people who had little education and no understanding of the philosophies of the world. The gospel message of the kingdom and the future hope of life everlasting were the basis of their simple faith. This changed when the leaders try to compete with those worldly "wise men" and introduced philosophical teachings into the church that reflected the "wisdom of this world." It is astounding how fast this occurred after the death of the apostles and early disciples. But this was exactly what Jesus and the early Bible writers foretold.

I wonder how many Christians today care about or understand the intellectual discussions of doctrine? The real appeal remains the same today as in the first century: Love of Christ and the love of each other.

3

607 is like an ill fitting carpet

by Mickey mouse in

i was doing a little more research on the 607 issue.

it struck me that what the wt has done is a bit like walking into a room with a perfectly fitting carpet, cutting it in half and adding a strip in the middle.

now the carpet doesn't fit and you are left with the choice of having it running up the walls or full of wrinkles.

Pahpa

I think that many groups, not just the Watchtower, came up with their pet theories first and then searched the scriptures to find "proof" of the same. In the case of the 2520 years for the "Gentile Times" Carl Olaf Johsson thoroughly investigated the subject and found that not only was the 607 BCE date incorrect but that the whole concept of the calculation was suspect. Russell accepted Barbour's time frame because it suited his own ideas about living in the "end times." Russell grasped at this interpretation just as he did with the theory of the Great Pyramid of Khufu (Cheops) because it supported his preconceived notions. Rutherford re-adjusted Russell's dates. But he kept the calculations of the Gentile Times because the whole framework of the Society was built upon it. The Society now seems to downplay its importance these days. But, like the story of the tar baby, it is stuck with it. It will be interesting to see how it will treat the whole subject as we approach 2014.

17

What teaching did you find unacceptable that made you question the WTS?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the selection of the society in 1919 as the faithful and discreet slave after jesus spent nearly 5 years observing them.

jesus must have had some good lsd.

Pahpa

It took over thirty years to break away from the WTS. But besides the terrible treatment of its members by the elders and visiting overseers, I think I was most disturbed by the arbitrary way the Watchtower interpreted prophecies. For example, there was nothing in the context of Daniel that indicated any other application to Nebuchadnezzar's dream tree other than to the king himself. And there was no references to it in the New Testament that applied it to the "end time" prophecies. Another example was the ridiculous application of the world shaking events described by John in Revelation that the Society applied to its own assemblies during the 1920s and 1930s. Add to this the mixture of its explanations of "type and anti-type" to support its teachings, it became clear that the Society wasn't "handling the word of truth aright."

33

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts in

i have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.

any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.

since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.

Pahpa

It must be noted that the trinity doctrine was introduced after the death of the apostles and early Christians. Even then, it took centuries to define and to refine this teaching. It caused not only the rift between the trinitarians and arians in the 4th century, but the specifics of it became a controversy between the Catholic and Orthodox branches of Christendom. And all through this historical period it was rejected by various religious groups.

What bothers me most is that some Christians insist that it is the "central doctrine of Christianity." They believe without this teaching one can not be a Christian. To me this seems to be the same mentality of the Watchtower Society who insists that only its way is "the truth."

Trinitarians are not beyond deception either. One only has to consider the insertion of l John 5:7 in the older versions of the Bible or the treatment of John 1:18 in the newer ones. I certainly don't defend the Watchtower's notorious mishandling of quotes in its publications. But there is enough blame to spread around to include others.

19

Christianity..... do you have to believe...

by yknot in

do you have to believe in trinity, arianism, or other christ based concept etc to be saved?.

is believing jesus to be the messiah and following the model set forth in scripture enough?

or does one have to understand accurately the 'nature,essence, etc" of things..... if so why?

Pahpa

In view of the terrible history of the "Christian church" I can easily understand why many people in many lands would reject the message of Christ today. They equate these evil deeds of professed Christians with Christ. Of course, they are unaware of the fact that these so-called "christians" violated the very teachings of Christ.

God, not man, will judge each individual. And he will take into consideration the circumstances of that person. Everyone will have to be given a chance to know and to accept Christ as "the way, the truth and the life." I have always been interested in Paul's comments at Romans 2:12-16. Although the text involves those following the principles of "the law" it does demonstrate God's forebearance toward righteous individuals who did not have the same opportunities of knowing the law but followed the principles that were "written upon their hearts." One can not help but wonder if this same standard will not be used in the final judgement.

5

If they really beleive we're near the end

by wha happened? in

then why not pile on the resources rather than scale back.

remember what they did in sincerity back in the 1st century?

*** acts 4:32-37 *** .

Pahpa

This question is specially pertinent to the Wachtower organization itself. The great worldwide expansion work of constuction in the last few years begs an answer. Of course, Jehovah's Witnesses will try to justify this by saying it was necessary because of the preaching work. But they should consider the examples of the early Christians. There was no need for printing facilities and Bethel homes to preach the "good news of the kingdom." They did it by personal contact and word of mouth. Their meetings were conducted in the houses of their members. (No need for KIngdom Halls, Circuit Assembly Halls, etc.) Yet, their success rate was phenominal.

Jesus gave the best advice when he told the young rich man: "...sell what you have, give to the poor... come be my follower." I'm sure the Watchtower leaders would react in the same way as did that man: ",,,he went away sad, because he had great wealth."

6

And this was how it was a little ok to go to college...

by Inquisitor in

i don't know how the situation sits with the congregations these days in light of certain overt anti-education directives.. see seeker4's thread fallout from gb anti-college.... but where i grew up as a witness... there was an unwritten loophole (among the r&f) that made going to university "palatable" to the witnesses.. if you were going to uni to be trained it certain professions it was deemed worth the sacrifice made.

it was believed that:.

lawyers could defend the wts from the menace of government oppression, aiding in the release of incarcerated bros and sis.. lawyers would have sharp oratory skills.

Pahpa

Another contradiction that existed in the Watchtower organization was the pride Jehovah's Witnesses had that Fred Franz was offered a "Rhodes Scholarship." To them, it was a mark of distinction and honor. It gave him greater status in his position as "the oracle of the Watchtower." Of course, Jehovah's Witnesses also note the fact he did not pursue that course but chose life in the tower instead. I wonder if this is not one of the reasons that the leadership at Bethel is anti-college?

33

Watchtower deception regarding the TRINITY

by jwfacts in

i have finally finished an article outlining the deceptive way in which the watchtower presents its anti-trinitarian information.

any constructive criticism such as regarding errors that may have crept in is welcome.

since i cannot embed a page i hope entering the html code works, otherwise it can be read at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/trinity.htm.

Pahpa

JM/JWFACTS

The Bible wasn't written as a definitive text book on doctrine. Therefore, people can pick and choose various texts out of the Bible to "prove" their own personal preferences. Each person is left with his own opinion of what is right and wrong. As you noted, the one clear message a Christian is encouraged to promulgate is God's Kingdom. And the Bible is quite precise in defining the Christian way of life. Someone once said that the most important teaching in the Bible is love. And all else is only commentary.

Pahpa

6

And this was how it was a little ok to go to college...

by Inquisitor in

i don't know how the situation sits with the congregations these days in light of certain overt anti-education directives.. see seeker4's thread fallout from gb anti-college.... but where i grew up as a witness... there was an unwritten loophole (among the r&f) that made going to university "palatable" to the witnesses.. if you were going to uni to be trained it certain professions it was deemed worth the sacrifice made.

it was believed that:.

lawyers could defend the wts from the menace of government oppression, aiding in the release of incarcerated bros and sis.. lawyers would have sharp oratory skills.

Pahpa

Even years ago, there were great contradictions among Jehovah's Witnesses about college educations. While it was vilified and discouraged for the youth in the congregations who had to choose future vocations, it was a source of great pride if a college educated person became a member in the congregation. This person would soon have an "elite" status among the membership. Since such people also had better incomes, elders and visiting overseers would often cozy up to them for the perks they could offered.

I recently talked with a former elder whose children are going to the college. I asked him if the Society had changed its stance on this subject. He said that it had not.

Pahpa