Let them explain it to us.
Can blood be stored?
Gilberto
JoinedPosts by Gilberto
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How Would You Explain The Stupidity Of The Blood Doctrine?
by minimus init seems like the witnesses are going to be told that they they now can take blood---at least some of it!
i asked my mom a few minutes ago if she would take blood fractions and she said "no!".
i gave her a head's up on what to expect from the new km.
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Gilberto
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Allowed blood products by %, from KM 06, how can a JW not see thru this
by jwfacts ini have just put together a table with percentages that highlights quite simply what a jw can and can not have.
the wts does not present it in this simple format, as graphically it is quite obvious how senseless their stand is.
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Gilberto
Great Chart jw
But... "Jehovah knows best"
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Bizarre November 2006 KM
by yakata inthe insert is called "how do i view blood fractions and medical procedures involving my own blood?
" i will attempt to transcribe the more salient points for everyone here.. paragraph 1 (verbatim): the bible commands christians to "abstain ... from blood.
" (acts 15:20) thus, jehovah's witnesses do not accept transfusions of whole blood or the four primary components of blood-namely, red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma.
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Gilberto
Notice the cell salvage
perhaps in a continuous process, returned to the patient
And hemodilution
blood is diverted to bags.... During or at the end of surgery the diverted blood is returned
JW: "So we can't store our own blood, right?"
Elder: "That is correct. Because blood leaving the body must be poured out."
JW : "Is it okay to put it into bags during surgery"
Elder: "Of course it is"
JW: "So is it okay to put it into bags before surgery"
Elder: "Of course it isn't"
JW: "Just a bit before"
Elder: "No"
JW: "Why Not?"
Elder: "Because blood leaving the body must be poured out"
JW : "But I can put it into bags during surgery?"
Elder: "OF COURSE YOU CAN!"
JW "But isn't that storing blood that has left the body?"
Elder: "No, because we call it 'haemodilution', and not 'storing' it is okay for a christian"
JW: "Oh, now I understand I will die happy" [exit]
PO: "Thank goodness for that!"
Elder : "Yes, that was a close call, fancy a pint of haemoglobin?"
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Bizarre November 2006 KM
by yakata inthe insert is called "how do i view blood fractions and medical procedures involving my own blood?
" i will attempt to transcribe the more salient points for everyone here.. paragraph 1 (verbatim): the bible commands christians to "abstain ... from blood.
" (acts 15:20) thus, jehovah's witnesses do not accept transfusions of whole blood or the four primary components of blood-namely, red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma.
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Gilberto
Thanks and welcome to the board Yakata
This definitely reminds me of the hair-splitting that the Pharisees used to do. It reminds me of the long list of do's and dont's that was drafted by the Pharisees as to activities on the Sabath.
Amen to that.
why can't one have his own blood stored and used later anyway?
That part about it was my first thoughts when investigating the blood issue.
My take is that they can't make any concessions that may open them legally to getting sued by the relatives of those who died after following their command not to receive blood.
Agree with that Greendawn they simply cannot change their stance on this issue.
I also think complicating the issue makes it harder for the JWs to question it. One JW was said to a friend of mine when they questioned the fractions/components argument that it is complicated and a JW wouldn't understand it.
The whole blood stance stinks
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Another family forced apart.
by Gilberto inhttp://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/content/yarmouthmercury/news/story.aspx?brand=gymonline&category=news&tbrand=gymonline&tcategory=news&itemid=noed28%20sep%202006%2015%3a26%3a37%3a993.
(edited to get the link to work, if it don't get you straight there go down to "more news" "couple's faith tested").
couple's faith tested miles jermy.
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Gilberto
Velta
Welcome to the board. I have just read your story. As it must have been heartbreaking to have your friends go to the elders like that also losing your son and family.
I found this part of your jc interesting but not surprising.
They would not listen to any scriptures that we tried to show them. They said , "We are not here to discuss the Scriptures, we are here to see if you are "apostates"
Thank you for your input , it would be good if you could post some more!
Happehanna
That is a good idea. I am sure Mr and Mrs Gibbons would be pleased with messages of encouragement.
Gilberto
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NOT REALLY SURPRISED!
by Dansk inwell, it had to happen one day - only claire and i thought we'd be somewhat older and karl would have finished his university course.
karl telephoned earlier this week to let us know we're to become grandparents!
as karl is only 21 and has just started university i felt like reading the riot act - but what's the point!
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Gilberto
Congratulations on becoming a grandad very shortly. You will soon have every excuse, license and obligation to be grumpy, leave your slippers lying round in front of the fire, swear and mutter under your breath when spoken to, move your tongue round your mouth while eating so that everyone can see, and make all sorts of painful noises whenever you move any muscle in your body.
LMAO!
Congratulations to all the family, I think he/she will be a very lucky baby with all that love around him/her.
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Another family forced apart.
by Gilberto inhttp://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/content/yarmouthmercury/news/story.aspx?brand=gymonline&category=news&tbrand=gymonline&tcategory=news&itemid=noed28%20sep%202006%2015%3a26%3a37%3a993.
(edited to get the link to work, if it don't get you straight there go down to "more news" "couple's faith tested").
couple's faith tested miles jermy.
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Gilberto
(edited to get the link to work, if it don't get you straight there go down to "more news" "Couple's faith tested")
Couple's faith tested
28 September 2006
THEY were once devoted believers - but a husband and wife say their faith has been tested and their family torn apart after they were thrown out of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Members of the Bradwell congregation - including their only child, a daughter - are now forbidden from speaking to David and Brenda Gibbons since they were forced to
leave.
They were thrown out by a judicial committee at Great Yarmouth Kingdom Hall in July, after writing a letter containing personal criticism to another member of the congregation.
Declared “revilers”, people who speak ill of others, the decision to “disfellowship” the couple was upheld on appeal to the Jehovah's Witnesses' British branch in London.
They have not seen daughter Leah, 25, since being forced
to leave the organisation.
Retired merchant seaman
Mr Gibbons, 62, and Mrs Gibbons, 64, who suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, are devastated by the experience.
Mrs Gibbons told the Mercury: “It is heartbreaking that Leah is not allowed to speak to us because of a scriptural point of view.
“I do regret joining the Jehovah's Witnesses because then we would still have our daughter.
“We were renowned for being a close family; to love a child who has died is bad, to
lose a child who does not want to talk to you is quite heartbreaking.
“People need to know the consequences of stepping
out of line - so many families have been split up and
now we have lost a dear daughter.”
She added: “No religion should impose that on people, but there is very precise manipulation of the way believers think and feel.”
Jehovah's Witnesses are instructed to shun expelled members, who are allowed to attend services and receive spiritual guidance, but cannot be welcomed back into the congregation until they apologise for their actions.
Mr and Mrs Gibbons are adamant they have done nothing wrong and cannot return to the movement that was, until recently, central to their lives.
Mr Gibbons said: “The elders could have helped resolve the situation, but I believe they wanted me out because I was outspoken and this was an opportunity to remove me.
“Our Christian brothers and sisters would like to speak to us, but are fearful of what
action might be taken against them.
“We were loved by so many people, but now when they see us in the street they turn away The body of elders has created a climate of fear amid the congregation, which is divided into cliques.
“Even if I had committed a crime I would expect my family's support, but Brenda and I have done nothing wrong and yet we are completely isolated.
“What is the good of any religion that takes your daughter away from you
and does what has been done
to us.”
Mr Gibbons was stripped of his position as a ministerial servant in June; he
and his wife had been worshipping with the Gorleston congregation until their expulsion.
Worshippers are not told why a member is removed and
Mr Gibbons, who had managed the accounts at Bradwell Kingdom Hall, feared they would think he had been thrown out for stealing
money.
The last few months have been an ordeal for the couple after losing contact with a daughter they had been so close to and who encouraged them to join the Jehovah's Witnesses 14 years ago.
All they are left with now is memories of their time with Leah and a gallery of family photos at their home in Kingfisher Close.
Mr Gibbons added: “It was really Leah who got us into the church as she had a friend at school who was a Witness.
“Her father came round to visit us; we had a Bible study and joined after going along to worship for a year.
“We were renowned for being a close-knit family and well known for riding around together on a tandem cycle. We shared so many jokes and good times.
“This is tearing us apart,
we were always so full of
fun, laughter and life but
now just do not feel whole anymore.”
The Gibbons' daughter, Leah, refused to talk to the
Mercury when she was approached, and Trevor Gaskin, the presiding Jehovah's Witness also declined the comment."Revilers", haven't heard of anyone being d'fd for that. I think Mr Gibbons didn't keep his opinions to himself and became a pain to the elders. But at 62 and 64 how heartbreaking it is to have your daughter disown you.
This may make the daughter see the WT for what it is. It seems they were a close family and Mr Gibbons was probably one of those "characters". Don't know, just guessing.
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Crisis of Conscience Comments
by AuntieJane ini am going to send my jw relative the c of c book.
with it i am going to enclose some postings.
from this board.
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Gilberto
As far as Franz goes, I can't believe the intelligent people on this board say things like "he isn't venting, he's just showing the facts in an un-biased way". GAG ME. He knew when he wrote that book that if he came across ANY other way, people would be like, "Oh he's just bitter and venting." Franz is smooth. The most successful people in debate are the ones that stay cool and collected, and that's what he does from an author's standpoint.
For instance, if I want to discourage somebody from going to a certain restaurant that I got fired from, I could say, "OH MY GOD WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T EAT THERE! THE MANAGEMENT ARE ASSHOLES AND I WILL PICKET THEIR PARKING LOT FOR ETERNITY" ........or..........I could say in a cool and calm tone, "Ah, that place has great steaks and awesome entertainment. I would eat there myself, BUT they purposely mix in toilet water with their salads. As much as I hate to, I think I'll stay away."
Ya'll know what I mean?
Exactly!
That is why it is an excellent read for someone exiting.
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On Pretending to Be a JW to Sell a Car (posted on Sept 19). . .
by Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit ini just read the many responses and i apologize that this was offensive to some, and likely not the right place for it.
however, the truth is, i am still a jw--i am an inactive, secretly hateful, bitter jw and i will soon da.
did i make known that i was a jw in order to secure trust with a client?
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Gilberto
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4167204.stm
A quarter of 3,000 CVs submitted with job applications in 2004 had a lie in them,
It happens, we may not like it. But I bet we have all distorted the truth at some time to gain from it.
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I have a question(s)
by I.Wonder ini am new to the site, although i have been a lurker for quite some time.
i was very nervous to create an account.
all of the people i work for and with are jw's and we are all family.
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Gilberto
Welcome IWonder, I too was a long time lurker just joined.
Firstly don't give up on your husband. My wife knew of some of my issues for years, we very rarely spoke about them (only if she brougt things up) and I would always avoid an argument. It was a long term exit plan to. In fact after she came out I showed her, in an old diary, my goals. One of them read "Allow xxxxx to see the truth about "the truth". She couldn't believe it!
She thoroughly believed the truth even when she saw all the flaws.
Don't feel bad about going on the ministry if you have to let people take responsibility for themselves. You have to focus on your mission which, I guess would be to get out with hubby and without losing family.
I would work on a weekend (sorry, but it is an important contract etc.). I would "go out" during the week and report time and magazines. Once your hours have dropped, which it seems they are, you will be (probably are) labled as "weak". That is good because then not too much will be expected of you. The elder is just doing his job in trying to get you to go out with the group. He won't actually expect you to go out. IMO
Anyway, call in when you can and let us know how things go. But remember it could be a long process and "keep your eyes on the prize".