OnTheWayOut

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Posts by OnTheWayOut

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  51

  What is the best debate you've ever read on this board...

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who won, and why?.

  the rebel..

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  OnTheWayOut

  Can anyone really "WIN" a debate on the internet?

  It's typically a bunch of one-sided digs and "Who got in the best zinger?"

  But if they can win, an atheist won the best argument on this forum.
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  44

  Money woes show it ain't the truth

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovahs people do not beg for money.

  [...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

  it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Heaven, yes- along with a GB member telling everyone they are spending more than they make. (But not in those kind of terms, more like "expenses exceed donations.")

  stuckinarut2, sure. Like giving financial reports at assemblies where they have set the "cost" of the assembly so high and report a deficit NO MATTER WHAT.

  sparrowdown, I may run with such a statement anytime money comes up. Good thought.

  JW GoneBad, thanks for the compliment.
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  44

  Money woes show it ain't the truth

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovahs people do not beg for money.

  [...] we have never considered it proper to solicit money for the lords cause, after the common custom .

  it is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.

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  OnTheWayOut

  Jehovah’s people do not beg for money. […] “We have never considered it proper to solicit money for the Lord’s cause, after the common custom . . . It is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our Lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.” – From: God’s Kingdom Rules, Page 196

  This alone is enough to open the eyes of many members to see that Watchtower is not the one true religion. The only thing they still seem to hold to is that they don't pass an actual collection plate passed around to embarass members during the meeting. But the body of elders have the C.O. to do that to them and attempt to shame them to increase donations.

  Ever since they took all the money from all the congregations, all the members have been hearing is how they have to cough up more.

  Now the members have a whole bunch more to chew on. Cutting back on printing again, cutting back on Bethel workers again, money problems with construction.

  Members are not going to all be fooled by this. Further, if they donate the monthly expenses at the Kingdom Hall, they won't put money in the Worldwide Work fund and they won't have more money to donate at the Assembly Hall.

  But I want to just focus on the simple idea that they do indeed solicit funds now, contrary to what they have always said. They beg and coerce. They have regular articles on how the members can outright donate, put Watchtower in their will, send jewelry, name them as life insurance beneficiaries, etc. etc. etc. They have addressed this issue on jw. org and even have a cartoon about children giving up their ice cream money.

  Notice how they still lean on the same claims: http://wol.jw.org/de/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102012165
  Who are they fooling?

  
  
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  9

  wait lets get this straight the gb discourages annointed nutballs to get together and talk about the bible

  by poopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but they get together every wensday and talk about the bible is that hypocritical

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  OnTheWayOut

  If you are so all-fired sure that you are directed by Holy Spirit, you would do what you think that Holy Spirit is directing you to do, and not what some men are telling you to do (or not to do).
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  15

  Asking For More Money Again

  by rosesinbloom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we had another letter read this week from the 'slave' that asked for more money again.. it asked for a resolution to be passed by all congregations in support of the circuit overseer to pay their expenses and medical expense was included in there.. a resolution was put on the floor and voted upon and agreed by show of hands that our congregation would send over $2,000 for the year 2016.. the society broke it down to how much it would be per year for each publisher but i do not remember what they suggested.. i was glad i was listening in and not present this week because it would have been obvious i did not support the resolution because my hand would not have been up when the attendance took a count.. has anyone here also had the letter read at their service meeting this week?.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I believe in the past, the once-a-year letter was to pay for the C.O's insurance. So this sounds like nothing new. It's sounding a bit high for one year. I doubt that amount actually gets sent off to some insurance company.

  Here's the thing: their membership is their primary source of money. If members are squeezed for money like balloons could be squeezed for their air, there's only so much there. If members used to donate a great deal at conventions and assemblies and now have to contribute more at their local congregation to pay the bills and meet Watchtower's inflated rates for insurance, then the same members will take it out of their assembly donation money and say "I gave at the Kingdom Hall." The balloon only holds so much, especially when you don't go to college, don't work overtime very often, need time off for conventions.
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  10

  Crises of Conscience by Raymond franz hardcopy book

  by Olivia Wilde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can anyone tell me where is the best place to buy the hardcopy book from?

  i need it for a friend, i need to buy it from a place that the proceeds go to a good cause, not amazon,..

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  OnTheWayOut

  I remember paying a bunch for the book when Ray was alive, but bound print versions seem enormously expensive now, much more so than when I bought it (and passed it on to others). Ray and Cynthia are gone. Do yourself a favor and download a free copy from the internet and donate $40 to a proper charity.

  I am all for helping out people when they have given so much, but I think Ray and Cynthia would love knowing that the book is freely available and widely read years later.
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  6

  Bending Truth- A look at Cognitive Dissonance by Theramin Trees

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a reflection on the importance of acknowledging that we can all be manipulated.. this is an excellent presentation on the problems with leaving the group, problems with disagreeing with the group, why recruiting children is important to religions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauhr-trkhy.

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  OnTheWayOut

  John Aquila, while they would never admit to such a thing, I do tend to think that recruiting is not really a think they are after right now. They are trying to have retention of members and get donations from members. They know that recruitment costs money in literature and they are not really able to spend money right now. Children recruitment is definitely very much their focus just to keep some getting baptized at assembly halls.

  under the radar, glad to help. I hope it helps your friends.

  sir82, they have painted themselves into a corner with poor recruitment and encouragement to stay poor among members.

  KateWild, I tend to agree. Current leaders are in crisis mode. Someone will change everything eventually.

  Vidiot, very true.
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  27

  No longer wanting to attend meetings

  by breezy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello everyone.. first post here.

  long time follower of this website, probably 4 years now.

  i've known about ttatt since ive been 18, im now 22 going on 23 but still go to meetings because of parents.

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  OnTheWayOut

  I don't have your situation and I really didn't use scriptures when talking with JW family, except to say that I should be examining the doctrine for myself as the Bereans did.

  I suggest taking a hard look at jwfacts.com to aid you in talking to your folks.

  Three great areas for preparing yourself are
  1. 15 minute guide to truth: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/15-minute-guide-to-truth.php

  2. Is it Truth? : http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/truth.php

  3. Fear and Mind Control: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php

  Try not to say "mind control" this early with your discussion, but talk about the fear of questioning anything they say.
  
  
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  31

  What if.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what if we only find god, once we have found our self?

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  OnTheWayOut

  I have found myself. The gods of man's creation do not exist.

  I am glad you offered this thread for me to get that cleared up for you.
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  6

  Bending Truth- A look at Cognitive Dissonance by Theramin Trees

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a reflection on the importance of acknowledging that we can all be manipulated.. this is an excellent presentation on the problems with leaving the group, problems with disagreeing with the group, why recruiting children is important to religions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauhr-trkhy.

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  OnTheWayOut

  A reflection on the importance of acknowledging that we can all be manipulated.

  This is an excellent presentation on the problems with leaving the group, problems with disagreeing with the group, why recruiting children is important to religions.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY