The point is simply that the semantic range for "made" is wider than "create" and only the Father is expressly said to "create" and only he is identified with the title "creator." Beyond what Scripture says I couldn't tell you, but it does tell us this much.
Mondo1
JoinedPosts by Mondo1
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396
Who is Jesus? Is he God?
by BelieverInJesus ini live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
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137
New World Translation Brackets!!
by gold_morning infor what it is worth i wanted to pass this along.. we are all aware of those convienient brackets used in the new world translation.
the infamous colossians 1:16....."because by means of him all ((((other)))))) things were created...".
at the very bottom of the first page of their bible ...the foreword.... it says.
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Mondo1
Hellrider,
I didn't explain anything away or justify anything as you claim, I simply read the verse. Notice it from Green.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour on the house of David, and on those living in Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they shall be bitter over Him, like the bitterness over the first-born.
If "me" is the proper rendering, which is questionable, there is still the issue of the switch from 1st person to third person. The natural way to read this would be as I defined. God is pierced because the one he sent was, and to do it to the one he sent is to do it to him.
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239
Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?
by Hellrider ini have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.
...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.
i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.
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Mondo1
The questions are faulty because they assume that I believe Jesus is Michael, which I don't..
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396
Who is Jesus? Is he God?
by BelieverInJesus ini live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
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Mondo1
Well God is the one that said let us make.... and he is the one that created, not only "made." Obviously the different verbs were used intentionally. So obviously, the specific act of creating Adam was God, not Jesus. Now it would be the same "he" that breathed into him the breath of life, naturally, so again, it would be the Father. Clearly, the Logos played some type of role per Joh. 1:3, Col 1:16, but the role was included within the semantic range of "make" but not of "create."
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396
Who is Jesus? Is he God?
by BelieverInJesus ini live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
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Mondo1
Kenneson,
Hebrews 1:10 is within the context of 1:2, which shows intermediacy, especially in light of Prov. 3:19.
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239
Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?
by Hellrider ini have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.
...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.
i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.
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Mondo1
All the applicable question I've answered.. all of the Michael questions are faulty so I cannot answer them.
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137
New World Translation Brackets!!
by gold_morning infor what it is worth i wanted to pass this along.. we are all aware of those convienient brackets used in the new world translation.
the infamous colossians 1:16....."because by means of him all ((((other)))))) things were created...".
at the very bottom of the first page of their bible ...the foreword.... it says.
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Mondo1
The text is not directed towards anyone, but it is a general exclamation of their worthiness to receive the things specific. What you are looking for is found in Revelation 4:11, but the Lamb is not spoken of there, only God.
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396
Who is Jesus? Is he God?
by BelieverInJesus ini live in memphis.
months ago, i had some jw's come by and talk with me.
i'm a believer in the holy bible.
-
-
Mondo1
You didn't make a point! You are attempting to disregard the irrefutable evidence of grammar. God breathed life into Adam. Notice God said "let us MAKE" but only "HE" created. The one that created, the Father, did it, Christ merely served in an intermediate role... what exactly what included in that role we are not told, but perhaps it was to set forth how the creation might appear, and hence some translations render Prov. 8:30 as "chief architect."
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239
Revelation 1.17 Jesus divinity? Or just "the first" raised from the dead"?
by Hellrider ini have been having an argument in this thread, which originally was about the trinity (oh no, not again.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121719/1.ashx.
...with mondo1, about what the text in revelation 1.17 means.
i don`t want this thread to turn into another trinity-thread, let`s just keep it to the phrase "the first and the last", and revelation, and jesus` status in this text.
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Mondo1
Apples and oranges. We are talking about THE resurrection, not a temporary return to life. The one where immortality is put on. The one that is spoken of in Phil. 3 where it says that the individuals "change." No such change took place in those texts.
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137
New World Translation Brackets!!
by gold_morning infor what it is worth i wanted to pass this along.. we are all aware of those convienient brackets used in the new world translation.
the infamous colossians 1:16....."because by means of him all ((((other)))))) things were created...".
at the very bottom of the first page of their bible ...the foreword.... it says.
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Mondo1
For the sake of time, I'm making this a general response, not directed at anyone in particular, but just addressing various points.
Matthew 28 and Jesus having all authority is not overly significant, in light of it being necessarily given to him. If he simply possessed it because of who or what he was/is, then it would be, but as it is given, it is not.
Revelation 11:17, whether it says "Lord" or "Jehovah" is a reference to the Father. (cf. vs. 15)
I would agree that Romans 10 is a rather odd place to insert the divine name. As the context is speaking of "the Lord Jesus Christ" it would seem that kurios would refer to him. However, in line with that, I would not that kurios would then by taken as a title, not a name, per the use within the context.
An example with proskunew would be Revelation 3:9 where, for example, the NASB says "bow down before your feet" in reference to what is done before the church in Philadelphia.
For Zech. 12:10, there are a number of translation questions there, but if we accept the typical translation, one cannot disregard the change to the third person pronoun "him" in the very same verse, which brings to mind Jesus' words in Matt. 25:45. Doing it to the one God sent (hence the "him" in the text) is to do it to God himself.
The A&W is the Father.
No prayer is present in the quoted portions of Revelation 5.
Mondo