I go salsa dancing, and I like to dress sexy - I expect to get a little extra attention. But that doesn't mean I'm agreeing to sleep with someone if they buy me a drink. I think the lady in question should always bring money prepared to buy her own drinks, and only let someone buy her a drink if she plans on dancing with them. That's my policy, but it may not work for everyone. How you dress should have something to do with where you are. At work, you should dress according to whatever the company policy is, period. Women shouldn't get so bent out of shape at guys looking - only if they start touching, or continually making dirty jokes about/around you.
kikisdragon
JoinedPosts by kikisdragon
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53
Girls......Should you have your cake and eat it? Booty call
by Spectrum ini was talking to a female aquaintance the other day and in one breath she was telling me that it's great when she goes out salsa dancing because apart from enjoying the music she never has to buy her own drink as there is a constant stream of guys buying for her and then in another breath she was complaining that they annoy her because they are just after a bit of arse.
now i've seen the way this girl dresses on a normal day i can't imagine what she puts on when she goes out.
btw she does have great booty.
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Education
by dinah inthis is one of my pet peeves about the society.. drilling it into our heads that an education is useless in a world that is coming to an abrupt end--any day now!.
i graduated high school 7th in a class of 118. guess what?
i worked at mcdonald's.
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kikisdragon
I completely agree. I'm 36, and I just started college a couple months ago, and I'm so happy I did. I was very smart in school, but I was so shy, and had no friends other than a few 'friends' in the congregation. I was depressed, and wasn't allowed to do much of anything. I wanted to be in the Chamber Choir at my high school (I tried out and was accepted), but was not allowed to because of all the performances on meeting nights, and the extra association with 'worldly' people. I wanted to take drafting, but wasn't allowed to because I would have been the only girl in the class (?) plus dad said it was pointless because not only could he not afford college for me but worldly education after high school was 'frowned' upon anyways. What a crock of sh--, right? I mean, did he think me and the guys in drafting class were going to have orgies in the classroom or something? jeez. I hadn't even been on a date yet! and the reason there was no money for college was because of his sucky job, and he never saved for anything. Not for college, not for retirement, nothing.Okay, enough with the depressing stuff. The good part is, once I left the organization, (around 7 years ago) I started thinking differently about education. I love to read, love to learn. I went to BCTI, passed their rediculous Integrated Computer Applications course - the only thing I learned there was, to investigate a school before applying for a $10,000 loan to attend it, and I learned some PowerPoint, and some good info on business ethics. But at least I finished something I started, and actually got a certificate. Yeah! even my parents (still JWs) were slightly proud. Although of course it didn't help me find a decent job, just a crappy data entry job, but it was something, paid the bills. Moving on....
After a few office jobs, and no job for a while, I decided enough was enough, and I would apply for financial aid, and go to the local community college. I started out this quarter, with two classes, so I could keep up. And I love it! LOOOOOVE IT! If there is any way you can find to take some classes, even if it's just one class a quarter, I would highly recommend doing it. I have learned so much! not just academically. I've met some great people, and in Writing composition we have had some highly satisfying discussions and debates; I'm finally using my brain, and not wasting away all this supposed intelligence that I have, like I've been doing the past so many years. My plan is to get my A.A.S. degree, and either become a Librarian, a Teacher, or work in the Science field somehow.
Also, I just want you to know that I can understand your worry about your back pain - I'm a single mom, have diabetes, fibromyalgia, I'm half deaf, and wear glasses/contacts and still can't see very well, but I decided that I wasn't going to let that stop me anymore. :)
Good luck! and feel free to email me anytime about what's going on, if you'd like. :)
Karolyn - [email protected]
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The Ultimate APOSTATE SURVEY!!! Check it out!! please respond!! ^_^
by NaruNaruChan inok, we all get them in the mail, but here's one geared towards us that i just wrote up.
feel free to add to it, as i'd love for it to go around a bit ^_^ .
copy and paste this into your response box because i just wrote it and i figure whattheheck, this could be good!!!
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kikisdragon
- name? Karolyn
- born? Seattle - 1969
- raised as a JW? Yes
- If you converted to JW later in life, why? does not apply
- baptized a JW? 1987
- When disfellowshipped, and for what? 1991, then reinstated 1 1/2 yrs later; Dfd again in 1999, I think - can't actually remember, its a little fuzzy; both times for fornication
- Married? No - divorced
- pioneer? How long?
Only aux pioneered for about 4 months about a year after getting baptized - do any active witnesses still talk to you in secret?
Not now, unless you count my mom who talks to me only when I call her, and only about "business", and for no longer than 5 minutes - Which teachings of the WTBTS do you disagree with the most? women being in subjection to men, that god is a god of love, and just about all of them
- Which Teachings of the WTBTS do you agree with still? None
- If you could take any of it back, would u?
Not if it meant never meeting my ex husband, or having my son Jordan - worst experience in the field service?
My first time back out in service after my son was born, after being reinstated, and I fall down while holding Jordan. Jordan's crying, I scraped my leg, ruined my nylons, ripped my skirt, and basically just felt embarassed. Went home immediately. No one ever called or came by to see if I was ok. - best experience in field service?
ending up in the same car with a guy I had a crush on (when I was a teenager) and getting to sit next to him the entire morning. other than that - it all sucked, hated it. - last memorial u attended? 1998 I think.
- What is one thing you wish you could say now that your eyes have been opened to an active witness? trust your own feelings, research everything by going to outside sources, believe in people and not in an invisible friend, don't let other people run your own life
- Did you have to go through therapy after leaving?
a little - would like more but insurance won't cover it unless I'm suicidal, a drunk, a druggie or abusive, which I am none of those things. - how did you deprogram yourself from WT thinking?
reading exJW sites and info, asking questions, talking to sister and close friend, visiting other churces (although I do not attend any churches now) - Has anyone else quit the religion because you left?
My son (11) and hopefully it stays that way - craziest thing you ever heard at the kingdom hall?
can't think of anything that stands out at the moment - spoken to any witnesses who came to your door?
Elders a couple of times, basically just told them that, No, I don't plan on coming back because I don't want to belong to an organization that protects pedophiles. If they would come by at a decent time when I might actually be dressed, I would have a lot more to say to them. :) - What teachings do you think the society should throw out? All of them.
- What did you do to your literature after you quit?
Sold some on ebay, threw a bunch out, and still have more on a shelf that needs to be thrown out. - Have you been to an APOSTAFEST, and was it fun?
one, it was nice, but I felt out of place, and hardly anyone talked to me, and since I am not a social butterfly, it was hard to feel comfortable. Did meet an old friend of my mom's from my old congregation there though which was a very nice surprise. - Did you go sex crazy when you left?
right before, and then afterwards, definetely. Now, I'm basically turned off of sex until I straiten my life out and find the right man. - Did you dye your hair, get a tattoo, or pierce yourself?
No, but would like to get a tattoo - Have you picketed a convention yet, or will you? no; maybe, if I thought it would do any good
- Do you have any regrets?
Big regrets about raising my son as a JW for his first 6 years. Missed out on a lot of great stuff. : ( Also, wish I had left the organization before my nonJW grama died - she was so great, and I would have loved to celebrate at least one Xmas with her. - Do you think you will ever recover fully?
No - I keep trying but it so hard to forget some things. - Would you ever go back? Easiest question of all - HELL NO!
- name? Karolyn
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Ozzie's Weekend Poll #45
by ozziepost in45 today!!!
yep, we've been going for around a year on these weekend polls.
worth a celebration?
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kikisdragon
#9, definitely. I believed it for awhile, but when my ex-husband (husband at the time) started throwing away a whole bunch of his stuff, because he really believed it was demonized, then I started realizing, that it was all in his head. I feel bad for him now, because he threw away old photographs, because they had pictures from his old family's home in CA that is now considered haunted, plus many clothes, and possesions. I wouldn't let him touch anything of mine of course.
Later, after leaving the borg, someone explained to me that in the bible, god's own people were never possessed, and that things never made you become possessed. It was always people outside his congregation, or animals and such anyways. Now, of course, I don't even believe in any of that crap, and don't even believe in angels and demons, or god really. I'm just so glad that I'm not scared of so many things like I used to be - I don't buy second hand much, but if I need to, it makes me laugh to think that at one time I would have been so afraid to do so, even if that was all I could afford.
-Karolyn
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Did being a JW stifle your ambition?
by ballistic indid being a jw stifle your ambition?
did not needing to plan for the future affect your career choices and your consequent wealth?.
i'm not simply talking about following the advice to not take up an education which has been discused many times, but i'm going further to say that those brought up in "the truth" had their whole philosophy moulded and shaped in a way which never searched for more or wanted more; a non-materialistic outlook.. now some may still say materialism is evil, or that being brought up this way leads to a more content life.. the cynics, like myself, will say that keeping people 'happy but poor' is the genius of the rich.. i've had some success after leaving the org, after taking up education and so on, but it has taken time.
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kikisdragon
Guest77 - I agree that life is what you make it, and that we should be our own person. But you seem to have forgotten that as a JW you are not allowed to "be your own person". If you decide to do so, then that usually gets you kicked out, or at least labeled a bad associate or an "independent thinker".
>>>In response to the original question: Yes, I definitely think that being raised a JW stifled my ambition. I can think of several examples.
I took many advanced classes in school and received good grades, all the way up through 10th grade, then dropped out. I felt like what's the point in trying so hard in high school, and training for a career, when I wasn't supposed to go to college anyways, and Armegeddon was supposed to be here before long and pioneering was supposed to be my career goal. Since leaving the Orginization about 4 or 5 years ago (I'm 33), I finally went to computer school, and received my Integrated Computer Applications Certificate. Not a degree, maybe, but I plan on taking more classes when I can afford to.
In school, I was always in Choir, and love to sing. One of my dreams was always to be a singer - In high school, I tried out for the "elite" choir group, the Chansons, and was accepted, but had to turn it down, because so many of their performances were on meeting nights. (parent's decision, of course) I was pretty shy at that time, and I am convinced that if I had been able to be in the Chansons, and travel all around performing, I would have progressed towards my dream of singing, and it would have helped with my shyness I'm sure. Last year, when I was going to church for a while, I thought about joining their choir, if they'd let me. But that will not work, seeing as how I no longer believe in God or religion. That would be pretty hypacritical.
One other example: I was also interested in architecture; I used to draw floorplans of dreamhouses I wanted to move into all the time. But I was discouraged from taking that class, because it was filled with all boys, and of course that could lead to dating worldly guys (gasp!), or being too friendly with the opposite sex, or who knows what else.....
My other "secret" interests growing up were science fiction, and astrology. I know, science and astrology are kinda opposites, but that's what I'm into. I also liked to write, and did pretty well. But when my younger sister came along, well, she was The Writer and The Artist of the family, and just about everything else. And my family and "friends" certainly wouldn't have encouraged me to write anything related to science fiction when all good JW's knew that there were no aliens or other inhabited planets because Jehovah would have told us about it ahead of time of course. Okay, the astrology thing really didn't have anything to do with my ambitions or anything, just threw it in there.
I am definitely trying to not spend too much time blaming my JW upbringing for every problem in my life; I think that we all need to take personal responsibility for our own actions, and consequences, and not blame/credit them to God/Satan or anyone else, where the blame doesn't belong. But I can't help feeling a little resentment for how I was raised, because it is so hard to catch up to the person I really want to be instead of who I am currently.
-Karolyn-
www.kikislittleshops.com
http://kikisdragon.niftyfingers.comEdited by - kikisdragon on 18 January 2003 7:11:11
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Did U hurt someone because of JW rules?
by LyinEyes ini know we all make mistakes but did you ever really hurt someone while you were a jw, because of sticking to their darn rules?
did you ever, even as it was happening, feel selfrighteous?.
it is something that i have been thru over and over in my head and i have forgiven myself for it, but i can never make it right with the person i hurt.. my dad was an elder , very self righteous, he taught me well, i did what ever he said and acted the way he told me too.
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kikisdragon
I really feel for everyone who has posted their experiences (confessions). It is hard to think about things we've done in the past that might not be able to be rectified.
I know my main regret is raising my son as a JW until about 4 years ago. I am so glad that I finally left and can now enjoy all of the normal things in life with my son, and watch him grow into a talented, loving, smart and mischevious young man.
One thing I think about often, is how my Dad's mom, who passed away about 7 years ago, Grama Hansen, wasn't a JW, and I sure wish that I had left the Organization before she died. She sent me and my sisters Xmas presents and birthday presents, most of the time money, and we always had to turn it down; or accept it, and say that we're accepting them as non-holiday gifts. How terrible is that? She was such a wonderful person - traveled all around the world, I could have learned so much from her. We could have had such wonderful holidays together. I do not believe in god anymore, and so am not sure about life after death, etc. but I sometimes wish that I could go to her grave, and tell her how much I lover her and miss her and how sorry I am that I wasn't there for her as a real granddaughter.
Another event that sticks out in my mind, was when I worked for the Shoreline Chamber of Commerce, as an Executive Secretary to JoAnne, who was my boss, about 12 years ago. (when I was 21) At Xmas time, she had bought a tree to put up in the office, and I still remember her asking for my help in putting it up, and decorating it. Of course, I said I couldn't because of my beliefs. And so there I was, working away at my desk, while the whole time, she was wrestling with the tree, trying to get it to stand up strait, and decorating it, and me not saying a word. She must have been furious! She must have felt very awkward, especially since I didn't even have a word to say about how beautiful it looked, or anything like that. God - it makes me sick. It was only a couple months after that that I eloped, and quit and moved to the town where I live now, to marry a JW, who I ended up divorcing anyways. Then I of course, had my beautiful son Jordan, then floundered around unhappily in the Borg for serveral years, then remarried the same man...then redivorced, and came to my senses and left the JWs and now look forward to the future more than I ever did as a JW! :)
Okay, I'm done now. Please, keep your stories coming! I would love to talk to each and everyone of you. Happy Holidays! Hope you all have a very Merry Xmas!!!
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Another Kingdom Hall Burns
by Kenneson inrecently there was a kh fire in washington state; now today another is reported, that one in brunswick, maine causing an estimated $200,000 damages.
the story is entitled: "fire damages church; cause investigated.".
http://www.portland.com/news/coast/020814fire.shtml
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kikisdragon
The kingdom hall that burned down in Tumwater, WA is where my exhusband was attending. When he told me about it, frankly, it was all I could do not to cheer and shout. I generally am not a supporter of arson, or fires in general bc of the possible danger to people. But in this case, I really didn't give a sh**. And the article in the Olympia (tumwater is part of olympia) paper about the fire, had a few rediculous comments from a tearful sister, at the scene, to the reporter. She said "This was totally unnecesary! All we ever do is keep to ourselves." Can you believe that? First of all, that statement is true and false. False in the sense that knocking on people's doors and preaching to them about something they are not interested in and coming back even after being asked not to is not "keeping to themselves". In another sense, they do keep to themselves, bc of their view on not making friends with any "worldly" people, and not voting, celebrating holidays, donating to charities, shunning those that leave their religion, etc. That is part of the reason that they are not very well liked in the community in the first place!
Anyways - just wanted to share that. Oh, and now my exhusband's congregation meets in our town, Shelton now. Which is kind of a bummer, because now it may be easier for him to manage to take my son (10) to a meeting with him, which I am trying to prevent at all costs. He hasn't forced it as of yet, but if he does try to, I will just remind him of the days listed in our parenting plan as the days he is supposed to have our son which is on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and everyother Saturday. I do not see any provision in there for taking our sonto any of his meetings at this time, which are Sunday afternoons, Wednesday nights, and I'm not sure when his bookstudy is. (he doesn't go to all of the meetings bc he is still DFd and apparently not ready to ask to be reinstated yet - as if I care) I am very flexible about visitation - our son sees his dad practically every day, or at least talks to him on the phone if he doesn't see him. But if we already have plans, or if there is even a remote chance that he might end up going to a JW cult meeting with his dad, then I make it very clear that he will have to have him come over some other time.
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Search and Seizure of WTS Pedo-FILES
by YoursChelbie inbarbara anderson gave her first hand account that there are many names and details of pedophiles' criminal activities inside wts headquarters.
many victims have come forward to say that the very pedophiles who victimized them are out on the streets.
so, what more is needed for the authorities to get a hold of those criminals that the wts is harboring?
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kikisdragon
Go to this thread to learn more about the march:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=31648&site=3
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Possible changes forced by Dateline..?
by kikisdragon inmy best friend told me today that her cousin (l) who is a jw (although an immoral, poor excuse for a mother jw) called her to tell her that two elders stopped by her house this morning to inform her that her (recent) husband had molested an 8 year old girl in the past.
(do not know how recently) .
what i'm curious about is if this is an individual occurance, or if this is happening around the country.
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kikisdragon
Jim,
I don't know if the elders had announced this at the meeting or told anyone else. I would really like to know myself and if I find out, I'll let you all know. I agree that they should, because this doesn't just affect their family. Anyone in the congregation with young children should have this information. Because if he decides to start coming back to the meetings and try to get reinstated, people at the Hall have the right to know what kind of person he is, and that their children are not safe around him. Add to this the fact that this should have been reported to the police anyways. I don't know if it was - most likely not, or his wife (my friend's cousin) would have already known, and would not have married him.
Gopher,
Just a clarification about what I meant about toleration. I wasn't really applying it directly to a married couple, but to mankind I guess. I really love the variety of people and cultures and beliefs. I have a hard time believing that there is only one and right way to believe. Certainly, there are some religions or beliefs out there that just make no sense whatsoever, but I think that as long as they are not hurting anyone it is not up to me or anyone else to say that they are condemned or inferior. I know that it is not realistic to hope for all of mankind to become tolerant of each other - that is just what I wish. I suppose when referring to a married couple, it is possible to also live together having different faiths- but I would like to meet the ones who actually manage to pull it off. I tried that with my ex, but he wanted no part of it. He just wanted out bc I had changed my mind about wanting to be a JW, and started looking for answers, and he just couldn't handle it. The ironic thing is, his entire family (9 brothers and sisters, zillions of cousins, etc.) is Catholic, except for him. I love his family - why couldn't he have stayed catholic? Even though I really don't care about the catholic faith, his family if so great! and they accept him as a JW and love him anyways. I can't seem to get him to understand that it shouldn't matter what religion your friends/family are, that they are who they are regardless and if you stop associating with someone bc they've changed religion or have none at all, then you're really not their friend to begin with. (note: my entire family, though small, minus my younger sister and recently reunited cousin, are all JWs and do not associate with me anymore).
Crawdad,
you have an interesting way of typing your posts......with all of the dots.......Any particular reason for this? :) I wanted to let you know that I do agree to some extent, that it doesn't make sense to try to reform a cult - a cult is a cult is a cult. I think if enough JWs who still have some of their own thinking ability left in them realize how terrible this policy is and that if this one needs to be changed, they might start wondering what else might be wrong with their 'organization'? All I can really forsee is possibly a large number of people leaving the congregations and finding freedom again. The ones who decide to stay and follow blindly along, well, that's their own choice, their own pitiful lives. I don't have to deal with it. I have more important things to do. :) Well, truthfully, I will have to deal with it to some extent, bc my son's father is a JW still. A df one but a true believer and wanting to get reinstated of course. So far I have been able to keep my 10 year old son from having to go to any more meetings for the past year or so. But if his dad starts insisting on him going with him on visitation days, I'm not sure what I can do about it. My son is pretty adamant about not liking the meetings himself, and we talk about why the JW way of life is so wrong frequently. It is a struggle to do that, but also not downgrade his father who is after all, a good father (minus the JW thing). Well, I better cut this short before I go on and on and on.....
Thanks for all of the imput! more.....if you please? :)
-Karolyn
Edited by - kikisdragon on 8 July 2002 5:51:33
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Possible changes forced by Dateline..?
by kikisdragon inmy best friend told me today that her cousin (l) who is a jw (although an immoral, poor excuse for a mother jw) called her to tell her that two elders stopped by her house this morning to inform her that her (recent) husband had molested an 8 year old girl in the past.
(do not know how recently) .
what i'm curious about is if this is an individual occurance, or if this is happening around the country.
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kikisdragon
My best friend told me today that her cousin (L) who is a JW (although an immoral, poor excuse for a mother JW) called her to tell her that two elders stopped by her house this morning to inform her that her (recent) husband had molested an 8 year old girl in the past. (do not know how recently)
What I'm curious about is if this is an individual occurance, or if this is happening around the country. Apparently the elders told L that they had to tell her because of the Dateline show. If this is true, then that is great. But I wish I could get more details. You see, L's husband is disfellowshipped. So, this makes me wonder: Are they only reporting JWs who are inactive or disfellowshipped, or also reporting active, prominent members? Are they reporting accused members, or only those who have confessed and/or have been convicted in courts?
If anyone knows any more similar recent accounts, I would be love to hear about it. Plus, if you know any information at all about any formal JW replies to the dateline show and responses to the recent letters sent to elders, maybe you could let me know also.
No matter what the JWs try to do to get around this issue, it will not be enough. The damage has already been done, and for people like my best friend, they will spend a lifetime trying to recover from the abuse. It is obvious that they(WBTS) are only doing it to save their hides, to protect their organization's bottom line when it comes to dealing with all of the lawsuits. If the men in charge cared at all about the children in the first place, their policy would have been changed long ago. They would admit their mistake, and appologize. But that will never happen bc then that would be admitting that either Jehovah CAN make a mistake, or that the org is NOT being run by God and that the MEN in charge made a mistake.
I have gone back and forth so many times, wrestling with whether I even believe in god or not. I have attended a very nice church and became 'saved'. (at least that's what it felt like at the time) But I still have this anger inside, and now I am finding it hard to believe that there is a god. Or at least a loving one. I believe that people can take care of themselves, if they can learn toleration, and stop using God and Satan as a crutch for everything good and bad that goes on in the world. Whatever happened to man and woman making their own destiny?
Any thoughts?
-Karolyn
Edited by - kikisdragon on 7 July 2002 7:13:28