Are there any LXX texts prior to the second century CE which replace the divine name with "Lord" or "God" ? The silence is deafening.
Earnest
JoinedPosts by Earnest
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Cite one scripture in the N.T. that chargers Christians to be witnesses of / for Jehovah.....Not one.using K.I ./ WTB&TS
by smiddy3 ini think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
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Cite one scripture in the N.T. that chargers Christians to be witnesses of / for Jehovah.....Not one.using K.I ./ WTB&TS
by smiddy3 ini think the wtb&ts publication titled "the kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" speaks for itself.. the word for word translation of the greek into english.. that publication does not even contain the name or word jehovah either in hebrew letters or greek letters anywhere in the word for word texts.. their is not one scripture in the n.t.
where christians ,followers of jesus christ are instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,however there are something like twenty scriptures that explicitly state followers of jesus christ are to be witnesses of, for, and about jesus...
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Earnest
Island Man : Add to this the fact that the typical Greek Septuagint did not translate YHWH into any Greek equivalent name, but instead used the Greek for "Lord" (kurious).
Every Greek Septuagint text that has been found prior to the second century CE translated YHWH with the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek equivalent of the divine name. It is only from the second century onwards that we find the divine name is replaced with the Greek for "Lord". There is no reason to believe this replacement of the divine name did not occur in the NT texts as well.
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A book on the pronunciation of God's Name
by Doug Mason ini am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book.
i am simply saying that i stumbled across it.
i have neither read it nor studied it.. search with: the name of god y.eh.ow.ah which is pronounced as it is written i eh ou ah its story gérard gertoux .
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Earnest
peacefulpete : I can't find any evidence they (or their roots) definitely pronounced the DN at any point prior to the Medieval establishment as a separate group. If not they would not have any special insights regarding the pronunciation being hundrds of years after the prohibition.
In Jacob Qirqisani's account of the Jewish sects ("The Book of Lights and Watch-Towers") he writes:
Some of the Karaites of Khorasan do not recognise the Ketib and the Qeri and read [the Torah] just as it is written; some of these Karaites do so even with the [Holy] name which is written yod-he [YH = tetragrammaton]; they assert that whoever reads it as [if it were written] alef-daleth [AD = adonai (lord)] is a heretic.
Jacob Qirqisani was a Karaite scholar from Syria who lived in the first half of the tenth century. Quite clearly in his time there were Jews reading the Torah and using God's name rather than substituting adonai (Lord). If they were doing so, and asserting it was heretical not to do so, it is obvious they were able to pronounce it.
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NEW ARTICLE ABOUT CHILD SEX ABUSES
by Eliseo inan astonishing article has been published yesterday by the italian newspaper l’indro .
https://www.lindro.it/testimoni-di-geova-il-paradiso-in-terra-per-pedofili/.
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Earnest
When translated using Google the article reads as follows (all emboldened and italicised words are from the article) :
Jehovah's Witnesses: the paradise (on earth) for pedophiles.
From Australia to the United States the thousands of pedophiles on file by the Witnesses and yet free to abuse, but not all, not everywhere, despite the denial of the religious society. In Italy everything is silent
In the world there is an ethical evolution of society, a quantum-moral leap.
It concerns the future, hope, protection of wonder, humanity's most precious resource: children. A propulsive push to this process took place in Australia.
The Royal Australian Commission
Everything explodes November 8, 2012. New South Wales Police Chief Inspector Peter Fox writes a letter, published by the ‘Newcastle Herald’, entitled ‘Don't block your ears to abuse, Mr. Premier’. In less than four days, on 12 November 2012, the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, announced the establishment of the "Royal Australian Commission for institutional responses to sexual abuse of minors".
The Commission investigated ways in which institutions (churches, sports clubs, schools, boy scouts, etc.) have handled cases of child sexual abuse. The work began on 7 March 2013 and ended in December 2017. The official site shows the mammoth scale: more than 40 thousand calls were handled, over 8 thousand private sessions were held, 444 days of public hearings were held, 3,489 were investigated, including 30 case studies on religious organizations.
Among these 30 cases related to religious organizations are Jehovah's Witnesses. Their case is singular. It projects a sinister shadow that generates disturbing questions. According to the hearings, the Watch Tower Society (a company headed by Jehovah's Witnesses) had produced 5,000 documents including 1,006 files related to allegations of child sexual abuse reported to Jehovah's Witness elders in Australia since 1950, for a total of 1,006 pedophiles and over 1,800 victims, an exorbitant number compared to the small number of Australian Jehovah's Witnesses (in 1950 there were only 5 thousand and today about 68 thousand), and if compared with the relationship per capita with other institutions (in the Catholic Church in Australia, for example, 4,444 have emerged). These numbers do not take into account the submerged: of all those who have not spoken and who will carry their painful secret into the grave.
The Commission shows that Jehovah's Witnesses handled pedophilia cases in accordance with internal disciplinary policies and procedures based on their own interpretation of the Bible, rather than letting the law deal with them. The documents show that of the alleged perpetrators, "no one has been denounced by the organization to the secular authorities".
A database with details of all 1,006 pedophiles found among Australian Jehovah's Witnesses is available on the Commission's official website. Among the data reported for each pedophile (gender, number of abused victims, role in the church, etc.) there is also the column "reported to the authorities by Jehovah's Witnesses". The answer is constantly: no.
The Commission stated that "it is the practice of the Church of Jehovah's Witnesses to keep information regarding child sexual abuse crimes, but not to report allegations of child sexual abuse to the Police or other competent authorities". This even when the pedophile confesses of his own free will.
The Commission found that the Watch Tower Society's Legal Department regularly provided erroneous information to the elders, based on a misunderstanding of what constitutes a legal obligation to report crimes in Australia.
The Commission also noted: "we do not consider the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses an organization that adequately responds to child sexual abuse ... the continued application of policies such as the rule of two witnesses in the case of child sexual abuse shows a serious lack of understanding of the nature of child sexual abuse ".
The rule of two witnesses is part of the internal policies that the Watch Tower still continues to follow. If someone is accused of pedophilia by a fellow Witness, in order for the accusation to be believed, there must be: either the confession of the pedophile or two witnesses to the crime. As if the pedophile abused the minor in the presence of others.
In the Final Report, the Royal Commission added: "As long as the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses continues to [rely on a literal interpretation of the Bible and the principles of the first century to establish practices, policies and procedures] in its response to the accusations of child sexual abuse, it will remain an organization that does not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and does not protect children ".
On 22 October 2018, "Apologise Day" was proclaimed. Scott Morrison, Prime Minister of Australia, in a memorable address to the nation, apologises on behalf of all Australians to all victims of pedophilia. His speech deserves to be heard again. Morrison says: "Elsewhere in this building and in Australia, there are others who are silently watching and listening to these proceedings, men and women who have never told a living soul it happened to them. To these men and women I say that these excuses are also for you. And later, when the speeches are over, we will remain silent and remember the victims who are no longer with us, many, too many, from their own hands. As a nation, we have rejected them, we have abandoned them. This will always be our shame. This excuse is for them and also for their families ".
That same day, after the Prime Minister's speech, apologies from other political leaders, religious and institutions involved in the investigations of the Royal Commission follow. The leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses are not there. Not only that, to date they have not even adhered to the compensation schemes established by the Commission. What is alarming is precisely this policy of the Watch Tower (and affiliated companies).
The politics of silence and denial
In addition to the public condemnation by the Royal Australian Commission, in numerous other trials around the world the Watch Tower was condemned to pay substantial compensation due to the poor management of pedophilia cases within its congregations. Let's talk about millions of dollars. In addition to appealing systematically to not pay the victims as established by the Courts, the Watch Tower has expressed in several cases that it does not even cooperate with the Justice.
The case in the Netherlands is very recent where the religious society has refused to provide the required documentation following investigations into child abuse. As a result of this behaviour, the criminal law professor Henny Sackers, of the University of Nijmegen, stated: "It seems almost a sort of arrogant disregard for the Dutch legal order".
Following this reticence (which, we recall, is a crime), the Police raided their Dutch national headquarters (called Branch or Bethel) and a national investigation is underway which also saw the collaboration of the University of Utrecht. A similar investigation was initiated in Belgium, where, on April 25, the police carried out a raid on the national branch.
A Royal Commission has also been started in the United Kingdom and the Jehovah's Witnesses are under investigation, as is the same Commission in New Zealand. On February 27, 2019, the Judge of the Quebec Supreme Court, Chantal Corriveau, approved a $ 60 million Class Action against the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Canada.
In the United States, other chilling details have emerged. Among the dozens of trials involving the Watch Tower Society, there is one in the State of Montana where the Society was ordered to pay punitive and compensatory damages totaling $ 35 million. Here too, Watch Tower follows a denial policy, presenting an appeal and not informing its followers of any of these causes.
On the official website of Jehovah's Witnesses, there is indeed the Press Room section, with the specific subsection "Legal Developments". We do not find a single reference to these cases. There is no mention of the Royal Australian Commission, of New Zealand, of the United Kingdom, of US trials, of million-dollar convictions, of inspection by the police in Dutch and Belgian branches.
The average Jehovah's Witness is kept in the dark about all this, as if nothing were happening, in perfect denial style.
The answers to the hundreds of requests for clarification (written or telephone) also sent to the Italian branch by the Witnesses themselves, on why nothing is written about these specific cases, are evasive. Often they are simply a "thank you for the question, we will send you a representative to answer you". We have dozens of these reply letters. And that's not all.
Paradise for pedophiles
"The Atlantic", a US cultural and political magazine founded in 1857, published an article that shook consciences on 22 March 2019. The article reveals that the Watch Tower has what is perhaps the world's largest pedophile database. This data has been carefully collected following an internal survey carried out in 1997 in over 10 thousand American congregations.
These are data hidden from the faithful and from the authorities. Data that would contain a list of about 20,000 pedophiles who roam the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States alone, in most cases in total ignorance of the members. There are about 2 pedophiles for every 100 Witnesses, or a couple per congregation, amongst active Witnesses in the United States,
The data is scary. But even more frightening is the internal management policy.
Unsurprisingly, Jehovah's Witness communities have been extensively called 'paradise for pedofiles'. By adopting the same proportion, there would be at least 4,300 pedophiles among Italian Witness congregations. About fifty per province. But we do not have the data, nor do we know if an identical investigation was conducted in Italy.
As we have said, we are witnessing a cultural evolution in the defense of human rights, where the most vulnerable and defenseless creatures, those without a voice (infants), are finally protected.
Maybe it all started in 2002, when the Spotlight team from the ‘Boston Globe’ brought to light the pedophilia scandals in the hierarchies of the Catholic Church.
The Royal Commissions in the Commonwealth have been the enzyme (sic)
The United States is now acting as a world locomotive: in several states in the USA the prescription for the crime of pedophilia is being extended. In the State of New York the criminal status of the restrictions for child sexual abuse has been extended to 28 years. For civil cases, against persons and institutions, the statute of limitations now extends to 55 years.
The 'New York Child Victim Act', starting from August 14, 2019, has opened a one-year time window during which anyone who has been abused by organizations or individuals under New York State will be able to report the abuse at a competent court. The State of New York has reserved 45 judges for the management of what is expected to be a veritable flood of complaints. The Witnesses' world headquarters are located in New York State.
On August 12, 2019, the 8 members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses were sued for direct responsibility for policies that favored and hid child sexual abuse.
It's Italy?
Where does Italy stand in this path? What have the multicolored governments of these years done for victims of abuse? Which commission was established to investigate the management of cases of child sexual abuse by religious and non-religious institutions in a concerted and systematic way?
What findings have been made about sects or organizations like Jehovah's Witnesses where the problem is compounded by mismanagement and where children are in even greater danger? According to the testimonies that we have gathered (witnesses that we are committed to protecting from ostracism), the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses have managed pedophilia crimes occurring inside congregations 'on their own' without reporting them to the authorities in Italy, as in the rest of the world. In some cases, their management has been limited to internal "judicial committees".
As per instructions given to the pastors, records are kept in these "confidential archives" of the congregations. In some cases, we are now trying to cancel these tests. (sic)
In a recent letter sent to the elders in Australia, dated August 28, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Australasia orders the elders to destroy the minutes of internal judicial hearings and some notes from the congregation. "We ask each elder to check his personal computer, paper files and even his own meeting bag to ensure that confidential correspondence is not kept outside the confidential archive of the congregation," reads the letter.
Is the Italian Government aware of the fact that this documentation was also produced in our country? Are you aware of how the Watch Tower has handled the pedophilia issue over the years? Are you aware of internal judicial hearings? Any minutes that are written and kept in special confidential archives?
Are you aware how this information is managed in our country? Are you aware that many fear to speak because of the moral blackmail of ostracism, or the exclusion from the social life of the only group they know and often also from the family?
In Australia, a letter in the ‘Newcastle Herald’ was enough to trigger a response in four days. How long will will it be before seeing an institutional response in Italy? Whoever saves a life saves the whole world. We will try to put all these questions to the Witnesses Press Office in Italy, as we will the Government. If we do not receive an answer we will publish the details of the silence. -
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A bombshell about Judge Rutherford 1938 Royal Albert Hall London “Face the Facts”
by Maryo inhttp://youtu.be/f7tepvrx4vi.
judge rutherford is introduced by the speaker saying, “his preeminence in scriptural knowledge is beyond question.
he speaks as a messenger of jehovah.”.
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Earnest
With respect I have formatted the quotation by BluesBrother:
As Jehovah warned the people of Jerusalem, so today he warns the people of good will in "Christendom" in these words : 'He that abideth in this city [ organization of "Christendom"] shall die, but he that goeth out and fleeth to Christ shall live.' (Jeremiah 21 : 9 ; 38 : 2) "Why will ye die, thou and thy people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the Lord hath spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon ?" --Jeremiah 27 : 13.
The totalitarian combine is going to get control of England and America. You cannot prevent it. Do not try. Your safety is on the Lord's side ; but there really will be but a short time that the combine will hold sway, because it is written in the Lord's Word, at 1 Thessalonians 5: 3, that when this crowd says, 'We are now at peace and safety,' the Lord sends sudden destruction upon them, and they are at their wits' end, and they shall find no way of escape.Face the Facts, pp.26, 27
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A book on the pronunciation of God's Name
by Doug Mason ini am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book.
i am simply saying that i stumbled across it.
i have neither read it nor studied it.. search with: the name of god y.eh.ow.ah which is pronounced as it is written i eh ou ah its story gérard gertoux .
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Earnest
Thanks for your comments, peacefulpete,
It has already been discussed on this forum that copies of the Septuagint prior to the second century CE do not translate the tetragrammaton with Kyrios ("Lord"). Likewise, while there is evidence that some regarded the divine name as too sacred to pronounce prior to the second century, the fact that a Greek version of the name (Iao) was in use at the time of Christ indicates it was still in regular use.
Regarding the Karaites, the same Wikipedia article you quoted from says :
According to Mordecai ben Nissan, the ancestors of the Karaites was a group called Benei Ṣedeq during the Second Temple period. Historians have argued over whether Karaism has a direct connection to the Sadducees, dating back to the end of the Second Temple period (70 CE), or whether Karaism represents a novel emergence of similar views.
Whether Karaism as a movement arose in the seventh century, or existed in one form or another since the destruction of the second temple, it remains true that they were still using the divine name in the tenth century CE.
While rabbinic Judaism with its emphasis on oral tradition was the prime successor to what had existed before destruction of the second temple, there would have been many from other groups who retained their identity and were not bound by rabbinic tradition. These would include the predecessors of the Karaites.
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A book on the pronunciation of God's Name
by Doug Mason ini am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book.
i am simply saying that i stumbled across it.
i have neither read it nor studied it.. search with: the name of god y.eh.ow.ah which is pronounced as it is written i eh ou ah its story gérard gertoux .
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Earnest
It is worth noting that it was specifically the rabbinical Jews who stopped pronouncing the divine name after the destruction of the second temple. The Karaites continued to use the divine name right up to the tenth century CE and even today. These were the Massoretes responsible for the writing of the Leningrad codex which is the primary basis for the Old Testament we now use.
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The myth, lie that Christendom has hid Gods name, all of these Centuries.
by smiddy3 init has been well documented that jehovah`s witnesses have long claimed that christendom has hidden the name of god for centuries.. and that they alone have restored that name in the last century,.
making it known in all of the earth for a witness.. nothing could be further from the truth .. 1.justus martinus a 13th century spanish monk took the four hebrew letters of the tetragrammaton for gods name and added vowels to those consonants and came up with hebrew letters to english jhvh and the vowels he added e o a. which amounted to jehovah ,remember this was in the thirteenth century by a spanish catholic monk.. 2.this name persisted throughout the centuries to this day ,in many so of christendoms writings etc,etc.. 3.churches of christendoms religions throughout the world have the name jehovah in stone on them engraved since that 13th century .
4.in the 1970`s if i remember correctly their was an international convention held around the world in which the jw`s released a publication of the conventions and the churches of christendom to the delegates showing these churches many of which had the name jehovah engraved in stone on them.......centuries old churches.
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Earnest
Regarding the avoidance of God's name within Christendom, it should be mentioned that a letter of June 29, 2008 was sent to Catholic bishops conferences around the world from the Vatican's top liturgical body, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, by an explicit "directive" of Pope Benedict XVI.
In this letter it concluded that the following directives are to be observed :
1) In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton is neither to be used or pronounced.
2) For the translation of the Biblical text in modern languages, destined for the liturgical usage of the Church, what is already prescribed by n. 41 of the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam is to be followed; that is, the divine tetragrammaton is to be rendered by the equivalent of Adonai / Kyrios. "Lord", "Signore", "Seigneur", "Herr", "Senor", etc.
3) In translating, in the liturgical context, texts in which are present, one after the other, either the Hebrew term Adonai or the tetragrammaton YHWH, Adonai is to be translated "Lord" and the form "God" is to be used for the tetragrammaton YHWH, similar to what happens in the Greek translation of the Septuagint and in the Latin translation of the Vulgate.
Note 41 (c) of the Liturgiam authenticam says :
in accordance with immemorial tradition, which indeed is already evident in the above-mentioned "Septuagint" version, the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and rendered in Latin by the word Dominus [Lord], is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning.
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Evolution or Creation Poll
by Vanderhoven7 inevolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..
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Earnest
I agree that was quote-mining, I was not previously familiar with that particular article although I was familiar with horizontal gene transfer and its implications.
The point I am making is not that the general principle of evolution is false, but that there is room for different views and that your insistence that it is your way or the highway is not compatible with the scientific method.
It is one thing to argue your case which you have done very thoroughly with your series on evolution, it is an altogether different thing to say that those who do not share your conclusions cannot be honest or objective.
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Evolution or Creation Poll
by Vanderhoven7 inevolution is how we got here.. demonstrate that you believe that all species evolved from a single cell over/within 3.5 billion years by tapping "like" below.. demonstrate that you believe in special creation by tapping "unlike" below..
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Earnest
The principle that everything evolved from a single common ancestor is based on genetics, the vertical transmission of DNA from parent to offspring. However, in the journal Trends in Genetics it discusses the effects of horizontal gene transfer. In the abstract it says :
Simulations of genes and organismal lineages suggest that there was no single common ancestor that contained all the genes ancestral to those shared among the three domains of life. Each contemporary molecule has its own history that traces back to an individual molecular cenancestor. However, these molecular ancestors were likely to be present in different organisms and at different times.