does anyone know when and how the change took place?
is the "day age" theory still the current position of watchtower?.
The importance of the year 1975 was based on the idea that the seventh day was 7,000 years and that in 1975 there were 1,000 years to go (the millenium). When nothing happened it was clear that either the chronology was wrong or that a creative day was not 7,000 years (or both). It was only after 1975 that the lengths of the creative days became blurred.
There is an interesting article in Awake! of 9/22 1986 which discusses "Scientific Dates for Prehistoric Times".
i recently had an online exchange with an active jw about the blood issue.
he originally wanted to talk about the potential dangers of transfusions but i pointed out that the risks of transfusions have nothing whatsoever to do with the reason that jws reject blood, and therefore i didn’t see any value in debating that topic.. not able to let it go, he then insisted that the blood mandate was a common theme throughout the bible, quoting acts 15:29.. it’s been a while since i looked into the subject, and i admit i’m now a little rusty when it comes to recalling where to find biblical quotes, but i remembered that there are passages in both the new and old testaments that, when read in the context of the time they were written, call into question the watchtower’s rendition of acts 15:29.. i offered to do some bible research and get back to the jw, suggesting that rather than letting our discussion become combative, we could have an informative and interesting exchange of ideas.
i reassured him that i was not looking to undermine his convictions, in fact i was more than happy to be corrected if my thinking was wrong.
stan livedeath : Didnt former member Cofty write the same thing a year or 2 back ?
St George of England : "Former Member"? Have I missed something?
cofty stopped posting about four months ago, saying :
"I can't no longer be part of the irrational and hateful environment that has come to dominate this forum."
i recently had an online exchange with an active jw about the blood issue.
he originally wanted to talk about the potential dangers of transfusions but i pointed out that the risks of transfusions have nothing whatsoever to do with the reason that jws reject blood, and therefore i didn’t see any value in debating that topic.. not able to let it go, he then insisted that the blood mandate was a common theme throughout the bible, quoting acts 15:29.. it’s been a while since i looked into the subject, and i admit i’m now a little rusty when it comes to recalling where to find biblical quotes, but i remembered that there are passages in both the new and old testaments that, when read in the context of the time they were written, call into question the watchtower’s rendition of acts 15:29.. i offered to do some bible research and get back to the jw, suggesting that rather than letting our discussion become combative, we could have an informative and interesting exchange of ideas.
i reassured him that i was not looking to undermine his convictions, in fact i was more than happy to be corrected if my thinking was wrong.
Bobcat : ... does anyone know where the article is wherein WT encourages JW healthcare workers to report blood use (or other WT health infractions) by other JWs to their elders?
You may be thinking of the article "A Time to Speak" - When in the Watchtower of September 1, 1987, pp.12-15. However, the illustration given in that article is on abortion not blood use, although clearly the same principles would apply.
Atlantis had a post on the article here.
it seems that g. jackson got confused during his presentation relating to jesus and his going to magadan.
( check out lloyd evans "magadangate") but the jw community seems very hesitant and quiet on this apparent "faux pas".
has anyone had any feedback from jw's that you know on this or are they just sweeping it under the carpet as being nothing of particular note?.
molybdenum : are they just sweeping it under the carpet as being nothing of particular note?
So, Geoffrey Jackson conflated the account of the feeding of the 4,000 in Matthew 29 and the feeding of the 5,000 in John 6. So what. He made a mistake. What a fuss about nothing.
dear,.
i am doing research on the history of jeovah's witnesses and would like to know if any of you have this research work to share: .
jehovah's witnesses: the effects of millenarianism on the maintenance of a religious sect.
the first 3 presidents of the i.b.s.a ./ jehovah`s witnesses / wtb&ts.. w.h.conley ,c.t.russell ,j.f.rutherford .. how many jehovah`s witnesses know that ?
how many ex jehovah`s witnesses knew that ?
the wt society teaches that jesus returned to begin his "invisible presence" in 1914 directing his attention toward the earth as ruling king.
smiddy3 : No such belief about a paradise earth where survivors would live.
There was a belief in a paradise earth where those who had shown kindness to or support for the believers would live. It was also reserved for those resurrected, which is (ostensibly) why Beth Sarim was built and "The Way to Paradise", 1924, Van Amburgh, was written.
during a recent conversation i had with someone, a question came up that i really don't know the answer to.
did jw's still drink during prohibition in the us during the 1920's until it's repeal in 1933?
was alcoholic beverages considered forbidden and possibly subject to disfellowshipping?.
mynameislame : And as we all know alcohol isn't the least bit addictive.
I expect alcohol would also be included if it weren't mentioned in the Bible. You can hardly make the use of alcohol a disfellowshipping offence when Jesus turned water into wine and commanded his followers to keep drinking it (at the Lord's evening meal - 1 Cor.11:25).
a friend is trying to figure out the approximate date or letter, which indicated a change from the wording of public announcements.. they changed from saying the person has been disfellowshipped to saying that a person was no longer one of jehovah's witnesses.. i thought it was around the time of the bulgaria scandal.. could you help us out to remember when this change took place?
if we could remember the approximate year, we could look up all the boe's for that year and might find the letter.. many thanks!.
atlantis!.
In the 1981 book Pay Attention to Yourselves and to all the Flock it says, regarding those who disassociate themselves:
Those who disassociate themselves should be viewed and treated the same as disfellowshipped persons.
A brief announcement should be made to the congregation that this individual is, by his chosen course, no longer desirous of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Branch Office should be notified.
learn why fred quit university to join the watchtower.
https://youtu.be/fkjw-r9oitk.
Diogenesister : Earnest did you listen to the speech? I'm talking about the above speech! He claimed to those in the stadium he had gained a place to study at Oxford university.
This is what Fred Franz said in "the above speech" :
At any rate I was scheduled to go to Oxford college. Well, now, this was 1914 and ... we were expecting the end of the Gentile times, the appointed times of the nations to take place in the fall of the year of 1914. And here I was attending [Cincinnati] university and with further study at Oxford college university. For what?
This is what Fred Franz said in the Watchtower account of his life :
A high point in my academic life was when Dr. Lyon, the [Cincinnati] university’s president, announced to an assembly of students in the auditorium that I had been chosen to go to Ohio State University to take competitive examinations with others to win the prize of the Cecil Rhodes Scholarship, qualifying me for admission to Oxford University in England. One of the contestants outranked me with regard to field athletics, but because of my comparable grades, they wanted to send me, along with him, to Oxford University. I appreciated that I had measured up to the requirements for gaining the scholarship, and, normally, this would have been very gratifying.
I have never regretted that, shortly before the announcements by the educational authorities regarding the outcome of the examinations for the Cecil Rhodes Scholarship, I wrote a letter [in 1914] to the authorities and advised them that I had lost interest in the Oxford University scholarship and that they should drop me from the list of contestants. This I did even though my professor in Greek at the university, Dr. Joseph Harry, informed me that I had been chosen to receive it.
What I understand from this is that at that time top students were selected by their respective universities to write examinations to determine who qualified for a Rhodes Scholarship. Fred Franz was selected by Cincinnati University to write the examinations which were being conducted at Ohio State University. He was subsequently told by his professor (Dr Joseph Harry of Cincinnati University) that he and another student had been chosen for the scholarship. Before the award took place he considered that the end of the Gentile times would occur in the Fall of the same year and wrote a letter to the authorities asking them to drop him from the list of contestants.
Considering that Franz only heard about the Bible Students in 1913 and was baptised on April 5, 1914 it seems that between the time of his writing the examinations and being told he had been chosen as a Rhodes Scholar, Franz came to understand the end of the Gentile times was in the Fall of 1914. Of course he saw no point in further study
Diogenesister : We actually have a statement from the Rhodes society itself stating he is not on their list of successful candidates.
He never was. Even though it was intended to award a Rhodes scholarship to him it never happened. That does not make it a lie to say he qualified for it but did not take it up.
yeah, so boris johnson has plunged the whole of the uk back into a second lockdown.
kids are still going to school (thank goodness!
) but this second lockdown is ruining the economy and killing small businesses.. the first lockdown was forgivable because, at the time, nobody knew what we were dealing with.. but now, we know more and more about covid-19.. it is lethal to elderly people (the average age of deaths with covid in the uk is 82 years - the average age of deaths without covid in the uk is 81 years).. it is also lethal to obese people and people with diabetes.. i'd imagine hiv+ people are another vulnerable group.. but to everyone else, catching covid is fairly similar to catching the flu.
perdurabo : In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." - Roosevelt
There are no records of Roosevelt having made that statement. The earliest use of it is found in the 1971 conspiracy theory book None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham.
In the second chapter:
Every conspirator has two things in common with every other conspirator. He must be an accomplished liar and a far-seeing planner. Whether you are studying Hitler, Alcibiades, Julius Caesar or some of our contemporary conspirators, you will find that their patient planning is almost overwhelming. We repeat FDR's statement: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
It is curiously convenient that the first appearance of a conspiracy-endorsing statement attributed to FDR should be in a conspiracy-endorsing book.
