Posts by Earnest

30

Opinions on the Divine name in the New Testament? + an interesting question

by Blotty in

i am genuinely curious and mainly posting this for research purposes, i do not have enough knowledge on either of these subjects to debate them in any useful manner.. (this information is as far as i am aware and may be incorrect in places)as most know the nwt is known for placing a form of the divine name in the nt (new testament) - while i agree the evidence is significantly weak for it too appear in the nt, a few things must be considered - (from my limited research)rev references the name twice (3:12, 14:1)early copies of the lxx contain the divine name (likely the versions that the nt writers copied?

stafford has a couple of videos on this subject)it was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) forever - if this is true, why then go against your own message in some cases and replace it with a surrogate?some also claim the nwt is dishonest for not translating some occurrences of "lord" as the divine name - common ones i notice are: phil 2:10-11, 1pe 3:14-15, heb 1:10yet these all use "lord" as a title not a proper noun, seems to be staunch trinitarians who make this claim most oftenscholar qualifications:why does a scholars qualification's matter?

sounds dumb i know.

Earnest

slim, there are three Hebrew online bibles in the JW library. They are New World Translation of Scripture, Torah and Prophets Written in Contemporary Hebrew and the Traditional Bible. I think both the New World Translation of Scripture and Torah and Prophets Written in Contemporary Hebrew are JW publications and they render the tetragrammaton as (יְהֹוָה) which is pronounced Yehova so I imagine that is how they read it.

Most Jews simply read adonai (Lord) whenever they come across the tetragrammaton. Perhaps Kaleb could tell us whether secular Jews pronounce it.

30

Opinions on the Divine name in the New Testament? + an interesting question

by Blotty in

i am genuinely curious and mainly posting this for research purposes, i do not have enough knowledge on either of these subjects to debate them in any useful manner.. (this information is as far as i am aware and may be incorrect in places)as most know the nwt is known for placing a form of the divine name in the nt (new testament) - while i agree the evidence is significantly weak for it too appear in the nt, a few things must be considered - (from my limited research)rev references the name twice (3:12, 14:1)early copies of the lxx contain the divine name (likely the versions that the nt writers copied?

stafford has a couple of videos on this subject)it was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) forever - if this is true, why then go against your own message in some cases and replace it with a surrogate?some also claim the nwt is dishonest for not translating some occurrences of "lord" as the divine name - common ones i notice are: phil 2:10-11, 1pe 3:14-15, heb 1:10yet these all use "lord" as a title not a proper noun, seems to be staunch trinitarians who make this claim most oftenscholar qualifications:why does a scholars qualification's matter?

sounds dumb i know.

Earnest

slimboyfat : I think in some languages they even use forms closer to Yahweh

Appendix A of the NWT Study Bible lists languages and dialects containing the divine name in the main text of the Christian Greek Scriptures. These include :

יהוה (Hebrew), YHWH (Spanish*), YAHWEH (Indonesian), Yahweh (Spanish*), YAHWE (Kalanga, Zulu), Iáhve (Portuguese), Yahvé (Spanish*), Yawe (Bangi, Bolia, Iliku (dialect of Lusengo), Lingala, Lomongo, Luo, Ngando, Ntomba, Sengele, Teke-Eboo), Yaave (Ila) and Ya’wĕn (Seneca).

* I think the various Spanish uses must be different translations. Some English translations also use Yahweh.

I am inclined to accept the view that just as all other names in the Bible are expressed according to the language/dialect in which the Bible is written, that should also be true of God's name. After all, did Noah pronounce God's name the same way as Moses? Or Nehemiah? Or first century Jews? Did Noah even speak Hebrew?

14

Request----2022 Circuit Overseer Guidelines in PDF!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

2022 circuit overseer guidelines pdf.. .

https://www.filemail.com/d/kphgslnjfxwgjxk .

atlantis!.

Earnest

dropoffyourkeylee : What is Harbor Witnessing

Witnessing from ship to ship in a harbour. Our Kingdom Ministry of July 2014 reported that "harbor witnessing is established in 38 major ports in the United States. In January 2014, the harbor witnessing groups in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and Seattle reported that 98 brothers visited 274 cargo ships."

There is a short video of "Preaching from Ship to Ship" here.

56

Senior JW member in Australia charged with sex crimes and torture

by Nathan Natas in

see: https://7news.com.au/news/crime/senior-jehovahs-witnesses-member-charged-with-rape-torture-and-assault-of-teenage-boys-c-8044666.

"senior jehovah’s witnesses member charged with rape, torture and assault of teenage boys...".

the 61 year-old man "faces 21 counts of rape, 17 counts of sexual assault, 13 counts of procuring sexual acts by false pretence and one count each of incest, torture and common assault.".

Earnest

A Maroochydore magistrate has granted police more time to prepare the case against a Jehovah's Witness figure facing more than 50 sex crime charges. The 61-year-old Mooloolaba man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, did not appear in person as his matter was mentioned in the Maroochydore Magistrates Court on Friday, October 28. - Courier Mail, 28 October 2022.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

Earnest

slim, I don't recall that Luther believed Jesus to be the archangel Michael but Calvin considered it possible in his Commentary on Daniel (Lecture 65).

William Miller (a prominent Second Adventist in the early 19th century) believed that Jesus is the archangel Michael (Evidences From Scripture and History of the Second Coming of Christ, 1836, pp.83,84), so perhaps that is why the belief is shared by JW and SDA.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

Earnest

jhine : I see no evidence for [identifying Jesus with Michael the Arch Angel] in the Bible so where does this come from?

The evidence is presented on the JW website here. I would note that the article says "Consider why it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus is the archangel Michael...". The fact that it is reasonable or likely does not mean that it is so, but only that it may be.

Clearly the notion that Jesus is reasonably the archangel Michael could only be held by those who do not believe he has always existed, and so is not even entertained by trinitarian churches. But there were some early Christian writers who shared the same view.

88

New method to absolutely date Fall of Jerusalem.

by waton in

for what it is worth to those interested.

1914.. tel-aviv university.

"biblical military campaigns reconstructed using geomagnetic field data.

Earnest

In my post above

When calibrated it came up with date ranges differing by 94 years between the earliest (971) and the latest (844) BCE dates.

should read :

When calibrated it came up with date ranges differing by 127 years between the earliest (971) and the latest (844) BCE dates.

88

New method to absolutely date Fall of Jerusalem.

by waton in

for what it is worth to those interested.

1914.. tel-aviv university.

"biblical military campaigns reconstructed using geomagnetic field data.

Earnest

Jeffro : The curve for the archaeomagnetic intensity is ... strongly based on carbon dating for the relevant period in the 10th century BCE.

In a previous post on this thread I displayed a table of radiocarbon dates of Tel Rehov V produced in the article C14 dates from Tel Rehov: Iron-Age chronology, pharaohs, and Hebrew kings (Science 300, 315–318 (2003)). The radiocarbon was tested in four laboratories which came up with four different BP date ranges differing by 84 years between the earliest (2810 + 20) and the latest (2761 - 15) dates. When calibrated it came up with date ranges differing by 94 years between the earliest (971) and the latest (844) BCE dates.

In his article The Debate over the Chronology of the Iron Age in the Southern Levant, 2005, Amihai Mazar states :

In the Beth Shean Valley Archaeological Project (Tel Beth-Shean and Tel Rehov excavations) we obtained about 100 C14 dates from the early Bronze I through the Iron IIA periods, measured in four different laboratories. The results enable appreciation of both the capabilities of the method as well as its limitations and possible flaws. The many stages of selecting the samples, the pre-treatment, the method and process of dating, and the wide standard deviation of Accelerator Mass Spectrometry dates may create a consistent bias, outliers, or an incoherent series of dates. The calibration process adds further problems, related to the nature of the calibration curve in each period.

My intention is not to raise a debate about carbon 14 dating, but only to say it is not precise and if the curve of the archaeomagnetic intensity is strongly based on the carbon dating then that, too, is not fixed in stone.

28

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

by Blotty in

first of all, hi, i go by blotty on this website :) i am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as i can from the trinitarian and the jw (or unitarian) side - even though i come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, in my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..if this is in the wrong section i apologise - this is just something i found interesting.iv seen online a lot that say the watchtower and tract society "invented" the link between proverbs 8:22 - 30 and jesus (the word).

yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:source:https://www.biblegateway.comprov 8:22 cr rev 3:14niv, gnt,esv, nasb, nasb1995, nasbre, cevprov 8:30 cr john 1:1,2 esv nasbprov 8:30 cr john 1:3esvnasb1995nasb(this list is by no means complete)if this is simply wisdom, why is it referenced with jesus (or the word)?.

Earnest

Blotty, this doesn't actually address your question but it's interesting that the link between Proverbs 8:22 and Jesus (The Word) was already made by the Early Church Fathers.

Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXI

" ... that God begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos;"

Tertullian - Against Praxeas, Chapter VI

The Word of God is Also the Wisdom of God. The Going Forth of Wisdom to Create the Universe, According to the Divine Plan.

Origen - On Principles, Book I: Chapter 2:1

For He is termed Wisdom, according to the expression of Solomon: “The Lord created me—the beginning of His ways, and among His works, before He made any other thing; He founded me before the ages. In the beginning, before He formed the earth, before He brought forth the fountains of waters, before the mountains were made strong, before all the hills, He brought me forth.” He is also styled First-born, as the apostle has declared: “who is the first-born of every creature.” The first-born, however, is not by nature a different person from the Wisdom, but one and the same. Finally, the Apostle Paul says that “Christ (is) the power of God and the wisdom of God.”

13

CSA and the UK Catholic Church.

by Lost in the fog in

the comments underneath the article are almost as interesting as the article.. .

https://mercatornet.com/secrecy-confession-england-wales/81615/.

Earnest

slimboyfat, the policy is to "instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or there is some other valid reason".

My point in my previous post was that both the 2022 Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse and the 2018 Government report recognised that appropriate action depends on the circumstances. If the circumstances are that a minor is in danger of abuse or there is some other reason it is necessary to report, then the elders are instructed to do so.

If the parents and victim have chosen not to report it, and the minor is not in danger of abuse, and there is no valid reason to report it, then there are likely to be circumstances where it is inadvisable to do so.