Posts by Earnest

22

Do JWs Get Excited About WT Publications Any More?

by NotFormer in

memory from long ago: my old mate from high school lived next door to a jw and was often "treated" to the latest jw literature.

when the "you can live forever in paradise on earth"* book came out, this neighbour waxed lyrical about how good this book was and how powerful the message was.

he acted really keen about it, like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Earnest

Slidin Fast, you must mean 1968 (not 1998). I remember that too. That combined with the 6-month study was an exciting time.

26

Still Confused About The FDS

by NotFormer in

this was prompted by another thread where it was revealed that the gb were referred to as "our future kings" in a wt video.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4911685446402048/fun-moment.

if i've got it right, the 144,000 are (or were until recently) the fds.

Earnest

NotFormer : Yet the GB, who are Jesus' brothers, refer to [the "other sheep"] as brothers and sisters. But how can that be?

This question reminded me that when the "other sheep" were first identified (they were also called Jonadabs) they were not included among Jehovah's witnesses, were not invited to the Memorial, and were addressed as friends or people of goodwill, not as brothers.

The "other sheep" were understood to be people in general who were devoted to righteousness, even though they were not dedicated to God or spirit-begotten, the ones of whom Rutherford spoke in 1918 when he said "millions now living may never die". In the 1935 Washington convention (to which Jonadabs were invited) they were identified with the "great crowd" of Revelation. In 1938 the Jonadabs were specifically invited to be present at the Memorial as companions of the remnant and thereafter became a greater part of the congregations.

There is a full discussion of this in the 15 February 1966 Watchtower article Identifying the Present-Day Beneficiaries [of the New Covenant].

27

LEAKED 2024 USA SERVICE REPORT

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/lov1gsxj4tg?si=ze-fdc8yswirahwx.

this is a mini report on usa that includes an update on ramapo as it was delivered during the british bethel inauguration few days ago....

Earnest

NotFormer : Harbour ministry? When did this start as a JW programme?

The article The Challenge of Preaching in One of the World’s Largest Ports says that in the Netherlands it started in 1983. I know personally that it was done before then by JWs taking the initiative, but perhaps that was when a specific programme began.

26

Still Confused About The FDS

by NotFormer in

this was prompted by another thread where it was revealed that the gb were referred to as "our future kings" in a wt video.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4911685446402048/fun-moment.

if i've got it right, the 144,000 are (or were until recently) the fds.

Earnest

NotFormer : Earnest, you do not see the logical fallacy that I am pointing out?

I understood your thread was to confirm whether or not your understanding was correct. I would have replied very differently if I was attempting to support the FDS doctrine.

NotFormer : The WT two-tier system is inconsistent and didn't exist in anyone's mind until Rutherford made it out of whole cloth.

The WT two-tier system is entirely consistent with the Bible teaching that some will be kings and priests in heaven as brothers of Christ, and others will live on the earth. Understanding differs as to who these others will be, but a two-tier system is entirely in harmony with the Bible and believed by most churches except those who teach the earth will be destroyed.

26

Still Confused About The FDS

by NotFormer in

this was prompted by another thread where it was revealed that the gb were referred to as "our future kings" in a wt video.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4911685446402048/fun-moment.

if i've got it right, the 144,000 are (or were until recently) the fds.

Earnest

NotFormer : the 144,000 are (or were until recently) the FDS.

As discussed previously, the 144,000 are in heaven. Those who are anointed on earth are referred to as the remant, the remaining ones. These remaining ones were (until 2012) understood to collectively be the FDS.

NotFormer : [The remnant] are Jesus ' brothers?

Correct. Matthew 25:31-46 makes a distinction between Jesus' brothers and sheep-like ones who support them. See, for example, the article Loyally Supporting Christ's Brothers.

NotFormer : [Every JW] who is not the [remnant] are the "other sheep".

Correct.

NotFormer: [The "other sheep"] are not Jesus’ brothers.

Correct, in the sense of Matthew 25:31-46.

NotFormer : Yet the GB, who are Jesus' brothers, refer to [the "other sheep"] as brothers and sisters. But how can that be?

Technically the "other sheep" are not brothers and sisters of Christ in the sense of Matthew 25, but they are still addressed as brothers and sisters as they share the same faith. I suppose the language is borrowed from Paul's letters without being pedantic that when Paul wrote he was writing to the brothers of Christ.

NotFormer: The [remnant] are from Jesus' family, but the [other sheep] are not part of Jesus' family.

Scripture only makes a distinction between Christ’s brothers and sheep-like ones. It doesn’t go beyond that.

NotFormer : If the great crowd is not related to Jesus, then who is their father?

The "other sheep" are not Jesus' brothers but God is the father of all.

NotFormer : If the GB are "our future kings", then shouldn't the other sheep...be referred to by the GB as "our future slaves"?

We are all slaves of Christ, are we not.

NotFormer : What now is the status of the [remnant]; do they matter? Are they the GB's brothers and sisters?

All members of the Governing Body claim to be spirit-anointed and are thus part of the remnant. So, yes, according to scripture support given to Christ's brothers on earth (i.e. the remnant) does matter. But I see your point that Matthew 25:31-46 was more pertinent when the entire remnant was understood to be the FDS.

40

1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations

by Sea Breeze in

quote from that world wide resolution: .

that, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to god’s messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the united nations, with international headquarters at new york city.

this international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men.

Earnest

The organization of the International Bible Students Association was incorporated on 30 June 1914 and the governing document was amended by special resolution in 1949, 1951, 1958, 2005, 2014 and 2016.

In the Watchtower of December 15, 1914, Russell wrote (p.371)

For the sake of our many new readers we explain the the Watch Tower, Bible and Tract Society, as the parent organization, represents all the activities in Christian work with which THE WATCH TOWER and its editor are associated. All the work done through the International Bible Students Association and Peoples Pulpit Association, directly and indirectly, is the work of the Watch Tower, Bible and Tract Society.

It was registered as a charity in the UK on 18 November 1964. The charity spends its money to "provide serviced facilities to support religious activity of Jehovah's Witnesses. Arrange for venues to host conventions for Bible education. Pay expenses for and take care of living arrangements for members of the Worldwide Order of Special Full-Time Servants of Jehovah's Witnesses."

The current trustees are Michael Simpson, Andrew Paul Sutton, Stephen Charles Hale Symonds, Jonathan Manley and Karl William Snaith.

40

1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations

by Sea Breeze in

quote from that world wide resolution: .

that, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to god’s messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the united nations, with international headquarters at new york city.

this international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men.

Earnest

oncebitten : [The IBSA] may not own [the IBSA] website but they OWN [the old publications]. Does that make sense?

In the UK the copyright Act, 1988, states that copyright exists until 70 years after the death of the writer, or if the writer is not known then 70 years after the work was published.

In the United States, the copywrite Act states that works published before January 1, 1929 are in the public domain.

So anyone can publish Russell's writings without needing permission from anyone.

40

1963 Resolution Condemning the United Nations

by Sea Breeze in

quote from that world wide resolution: .

that, in order to prevent the destruction of the nations by their own means in war, the nations further refused the surrender of their sovereignty to god’s messianic kingdom by setting up a society of nations, which, since 1945, has taken the form and the name of the united nations, with international headquarters at new york city.

this international organization stands for world sovereignty by political men.

Earnest

nicolaou : I'd like to see proof [that IBSA in London still sells the writings of Charles Taze Russell]

International Bible Students Association

However, the website does not belong to the charity although it has the same name. The website has links to various Bible Students organizations, not Jehovah's Witnesses or Watchtower. So while the Watchtower owns IBSA it clearly does not own the website.

14

Any news on JWs in the Ukraine?

by careful in

the war in the ukraine has been going on for 2+ years now, yet very little has been put forth by the org on how the witnesses are doing there.

especially of interest would be just how the org has implemented their relatively new 'alternative service is ok' policy in lieu of real military service in a place where warfare is actually occurring.

yet nothing is forthcoming from the gb on this matter, or any other issues, really.. does anyone know what's been going on the regarding the witnesses there?.

Earnest

In War Resisters International it reports that only one JW has been sentenced to prison (in March) for refusing military service, and his case is on appeal.

Jehovah's Witnesses note that this is the first prison term handed down to any Jehovah's Witness for refusing mobilisation on grounds of conscience. They point out that this case was initiated and the first-instance court handed down a sentence within about five weeks.
Jehovah's Witnesses stress that their young men are prepared to perform an alternative civilian service. They also note that Jehovah's Witnesses in neighbouring Russia (where the community has been banned as "extremist") do not participate on grounds of conscience in Russia's war against Ukraine.

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

Earnest

Rattigan350 : However it was clear that the 144,000 was filled by [1935]. The first resurrection started in 1918 after the heavens were cleansed.

That is what was more or less believed between 1966 and 2007. In the May 1, 2007 Watchtower there was a Question from Readers where it discussed previous understandings and concluded "it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends."

Further, the January 1, 2007 Watchtower said that the idea the first resurrection started in 1918 was an interesting possibility but is not directly confirmed in the Bible. In fact, all that can be said is that if Jesus was enthroned in 1914 then the first resurrection probably started after that because there is no mention of them when war was waged in heaven against Satan and his demons. Personally, I do not find that evidence compelling.

Listener : You say it is fact that one of the 24 elders revealed the identity of the great crowd to John. How could they reveal it to him if none of them were even in heaven at the time?

As Revelation is about events "in the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10), the 24 elders can represent the future 144,000 even though none of them were in heaven at the time the vision was given. The book Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand, 2006, p.125 para. 17 says that the identification of the great crowd by the elder suggests the resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in communicating divine truths today.