Posts by NanaR

9

Lineage of Mary?

by NanaR in

i hope someone here can help me with this question.

i seem to remember very strongly from my jw upbringing having been taught that while matthew gave the lineage of jesus through joseph, luke gave the lineage through mary.

i recently became somewhat interested in the catholic faith.

I hope someone here can help me with this question. I seem to remember very strongly from my JW upbringing having been taught that while Matthew gave the lineage of Jesus through Joseph, Luke gave the lineage through Mary. I recently became somewhat interested in the Catholic faith. I decided, in my investigation, to read the New Testament from a Catholic Bible (and found one online). The one I am reading has a certain amount of commentary (set apart from the text).

I started, of course, in Matthew. Then I decided to jump over to Luke's genealogy to see if the Catholic commentary had anything to say about this (considering the Catholic reverence for Mary). I was surprised to find that the Catholic commentary attributed Heli's fathership of Joseph to Heli being the older brother of Joseph's natural father Jacob, and that Joseph was born to Heli's widow after Jacob married her under the brother-in-law marriage arrangement of the Jews. There was NO reference to Heli being Mary's father, as I thought I had always been taught.

Can anyone here clarify this? Is there historical evidence of Mary's lineage, or do the gospels ONLY give Joseph's lineage?

NanaR

16

How are they getting around this???...

by Justice-One in

how is the society getting around this....."those that saw all these things, will not pass away before the end comes.

"...seems to me, those that saw the events of 1914 are getting pretty long in the tooth.. .

NanaR

Justice One,

They seem to be totally ignoring that scripture. The latest about this "generation" that I could find on the Watchtower website was this (two parter -- have to click on "next" to read the WT BS explanation):

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2002/6/15/article_01.htm

I went back and dug into my bound volumes (stacked in a spare room because I was going to get rid of them). I found the 1995 Watchtower articles changing the "light" on "generation" and reread them. They don't make any more sense to me now than they did then.

I started college in January 1996 (at the age of 43). I'm sure that, on an unconscious level at least, I was looking for some sort of reasoning that made sense.

After all, I had spent my entire life telling people that "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" and applying it to people alive in 1914. I really couldn't explain the "new light" -- it just didn't make sense.

Took quite a few more years for me to recognize the whole scam for what it is.

Only thing that occurs to me -- the new people don't know about the conflict. They just know what they have been taught. Many of the "oldsters" are departing (witness the large numbers on boards like this). So I guess that is how they are getting away with it.

The only explanation I remember hearing about the "delay" of the "end of the system of things" was that we should not be like Jonah who complained when Nineveh was not destroyed after he was told to prophesy that destruction. I don't know if they are still applying that or not, but if the "belly of the whale" analogy was fulfilled in 1918 with the imprisonment of the GB, it's been a pretty long d**n time delayed.

My personal take -- the house of cards will fall down. After reporting on here about two congregations in my area being downsized to one, I learned that that has happened in other places in Kentucky too. And I learned that at least one of the congregations in question was eliminated because almost all of the "elders" had to be removed for wrongdoing of LONG STANDING.

So it should be easier now for people with eyes to see that the WTS is NOT directed by Holy Spirit nor are the elders appointed by Holy Spirit.

"Religion is a snare and a racket" -- indeed. The JW religion, anyway.

NanaR

15

creepy words to K Hall "hymn"

by truthsearcher in

do any of you have the creepy words to the hymn with the line "loyal submission, in recognition..." when i heard it sung, it made my skin crawl because i knew they were actually singing to the organization not to jehovah.

it made me think of a facist rally and i realized this was mind control at its best--music has been shown to be a huge indoctrinational (is that even a word?

) tool.

NanaR

I played the piano for meetings, conventions, weddings, etc. for many years. The piano in our Kingdom Hall was given to the congregation by my grandmother.

Then the CDs came out and it was -- no more piano playing. Period. My uncle had to come get the piano to keep it in the family.

Anybody around long enough to remember the little green song book (before Kingdom Melodies)? A person could actually sing those songs; they had chords that allowed for 4 part harmony.

The very first Kingdom Melodies edition had chords as well. Then the new one came out and it was more background music than singing music -- I never did understand why they wanted people to sing to orchestra music.

A dear friend of mine who was a professional musician (she's dead now) told me, "I think the GB had one too many before they wrote some of those songs!" And she was a loyal witness, but some of the songs just don't make much sense either musically or lyrically.

I used to have the really old Bible Students hymm book (which even had Christmas carols in it). I don't know where it is now.

Even as a little girl I loved to play songs like "Rock of Ages", "Amazing Grace", and "Whispering Hope". In fact, my mother and her sisters would sing Whispering Hope in harmony while I played it. And they were all witnesses. My grandma played it and sang it to them when they were babies.

When I think about my grandmother and her love for people it's hard to believe that she was part of the same "organization" that we see today.

But I digress *hah*

Ruth aka NanaR

49

JW told me today that I was bashing his religion

by moshe in

jw
friends

i used skype to chat with a jw online today.

he told me that he wouldn't look at the www.silentlambs.org website, because i didn't have the right motive.-ha!

i was just bashing his religion, he said.

NanaR

wv peach,

A bit touchy, aren't we?

Have you read the new JW tract? Do you understand that JWs classify all religions other than their own as evil and worthy of destruction by God? So the expression, "They can dish it out but they can't take it" would seem to apply to this gentleman who accused Moshe of "bashing". I really don't think that attempting to tell someone about facts they need to know constitutes bashing. But pronouncing a blanket sentence of death on all religions that disagree with yours (as the tract does) sure seems like it to me.

These same people have, as proved in several court cases, concealed evidence in order to prevent pedophiles from being prosecuted and brought to justice. So that in the meantime, other innocent children were being victimized. The bulletin from silentlambs was an appeal to people to act to prevent the destruction of evidence that should be presented in court cases.

The fact that such things have occured in other churches is part of the point. JWs allege to be different, in fact, "without spot from the world".

Your husband, I am sure, is a fine person. There are many fine people who are JWs. But they fact that we love them does not make their religion true. And many of the practices of that religion (such as shunning and refusal of blood transfusions as medical treatment) cause untold amounts of suffering for people. I should know. I lived under their influence for 50 years. But not any more.

NanaR from Kentucky (very close to parts of WV)

55

Who else would never accept to go to a Judicial Committee?

by JH in

jw
friends

i was never df'd.

if ever the elders asked me to attend a judicial committee for some reason, i would refuse.

i would never accept to go to their kangaroo court.

NanaR

Those people held power over my life for close to 50 years.

They have none now, as I refuse to give them any. My parents are both dead, and my only sister already treats me and my whole family like crap. My husband knows where I stand and it worries him but he hasn't returned to meetings either (and hid and made me answer the door when someone came by with the new tract.)

However, they have never made any attempt to bring me in. I am not d'fed, I have not written a letter of disassociation. Don't know why, as I am an elected officer in a labor union and in a patriotic organization. My daughter took blood on my urging (it saved her life). Lots of people know me in those contexts. But the elders haven't called me in. Strange.

If they did -- Hell no, I wouldn't go!

I have nothing to say to them.

NanaR

261

Welcome !

by Simon in

jw
friends

welcome to the newest jehovah's witness discussion forum on the net.. please register so that you can post to the forum and turn this into a welcoming place for other brothers and sisters online

NanaR

Simon,

I found the first thread :-)

Thank you so much for sharing your story and for making this place.

I've found a lot of encouragement here already (and I was very late to the party apparently).

*smiles*

NanaR

21

It just seems that Witnesses are less active these days.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i remember being a teenager and being at friends home on saturdays, and every time you turn around there was a witness knocking at the door.

my non-witness friends would be nice, and say no, as they did not want to insult me.

even though, as a teenager, i was not a witnesses (baptized) and did not make a public show of my connection to people outside of the congregation.

NanaR

I just plain remember, them being a lot more visible and active in the past.

In my particular area, there just aren't as many witnesses as there used to be. When I was attending meetings, there were two congregations close to me. Now one of those has been dissolved and their members absorbed into one congregation. The combined memorial this past spring was about the size of one memorial in my more recent memory. I am also told that the dissolved congregation territory (very large) is once again (after more than 40 years of being assigned to that congregation) unassigned territory.

Also a whole generation (of 20 somethings) is clearly missing. Of the young folks my girls grew up with, only one is still a regular publisher (to my knowledge). Several are disfellowshipped. My daughters were never baptized but are considered "bad association" although 2 of them study.

So my take is that the numbers are dwindling and the ones left are older ones and then new converts. Territory coverage will obviously be less under these circumstances.

I am amazed that the momentum has been maintained this long, in view of the ever changing reasoning behind the so-called "urgency" of the times and the fact that most people have access to information (such as found on this forum) to knock down the "canned" arguments.

*smiles*

NanaR

24

Shunned by an old friend

by fullofdoubtnow in

jw
friends

in all the years i was a jw, although i had many acquaintances, i only had 3 really close friends.

two of them are no longer jws.

one is trev, who is obviously a lot more than a friend to me now, and my friend marion left the wts a few months ago, with a lot of encouragement from me.. my other friend is still very much a jw, and when i was announced as no longer a jw last year, she phoned me to tell me how very upset and disappointed she was.

NanaR

I always hated the shunning rule, and she hated it as much as me me, and she was the one person who I thought, hoped, might not shun me, she knew why I had doubts, and knew why I left, I wrote to her after I put my da letter in. But today she obeyed the wts shunning rule, and though I knew what to expect when I left from jws in general, it was still hard to take from her, remembering how close we once were.

Linda,

Several here have mentioned fear. In addition, I think it is likely that the BOE, knowing how close you two were, has given her specific "counsel" (read threat) that she is not to have anything to do with you. In their eyes, you are a VERY DANGEROUS person -- your dear friend could start thinking for herself, imagine that!

I don't remember when exactly I stopped obeying the shunning rules, but I know it was long before I truly "left".

It's the people who created those hurtful rules that are really to blame. Not the fearful souls who are imprisoned by them.

I'm so sorry you were hurt in this way. It's wrong and evil to divide friends under the premise of "protecting" and "helping".

Hugs and best wishes,

Ruth

69

Did you ever think you'd stop being one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by sandy in

i'm sure this question has been asked before .

i've come a long way in my thinking.

a very long way!

NanaR

Even though I am no longer a JW, I do not steal, kill, intentionally hurt others, I make a conscience effort to be honest even when I'm tempted to lie. As others have told me . . . I live a much more honest life away from the dubs.

Sandy,

I was a 5th generation Witness. I had doubts from an early age, but leaving never seemed an option.

After my father died in 1991, though, I really began to question how much of my supposed belief was really mine and how much was my father's overwhelming influence.

Then one of my dear friends (also raised a JW) experienced every mother's worst nightmare when her teenage son attempted suicide. At the hospital, she confided in me that she had given consent to blood. I was surprised inside myself that my heart agreed with her decision.

After that I believe it was just a matter of "growing away" from the organization.

Honestly, I now cannot imagine how I believed everything I believed then. I feel like I've awakened from a dream, and only now am living in reality.

Great question!

NanaR

4

A Crag in the desert ????

by KAYTEE in

in a watchtower question and answer session a few years ago.

isaiah 32 v 1-3 came up.

at that time there was 8 elders in the congregation, this was roughly my answer -.

NanaR

most days i don't care anymore...but somewhere deep inside me i can't help thinking that jah is gonna want an explanation from them

I don't know what to believe about an afterlife anymore (working on that one), but I do believe in Universal Justice.

They'll get theirs -- the law of natural consequences will see to it.

And you are a survivor who is now encouraging others who are struggling.

Good for you!!

(Love the avatar :-)

In response to the original question, the only elder I ever found the least bit comforting was an old gentleman who is now an apostate. Guess he couldn't stand hanging out with the other hypocrites.

*smiles*

NanaR