Posts by AllTimeJeff

today i uploaded a new article highlighting the method of choice by watchtowers current governing body for dealing with problematic details haunting its doctrines.

moving forward the current governing body will expand on this theme.

AllTimeJeff

The new GB has all kinds of challenges, not the least of which is every Wednesday, when they have their weekly meetings, getting rid of that "WTF are we going to do now?" expression.

Some here think that JW's are on their last legs. No way. Until they sell all assets in NYC and finish their move to the hills, the dynamic WILL absoltely change. Unavoidable. Until that time, it will be difficult to predict direction of if/when their ultimate demise will happen. But they have a solid decade of slow decline, not 5 years until the implode.

I have a feeling that these new GB's are waiting and biding their time to introduce something new.

If I were to put myself in their shoes, this is how I would be, and how I am guessing they are.

First, they are cynical. They know EVERYTHING. Have all the notes and access. They KNOW that 1914 is a crock. This group just waited out the death of Jaracz and Barr, and now, no one is from the old GB that taught 3 different versions of generation, 1914, etc. They also know, deep down, that they are full of shit too, and that they have to pretend to one another that they are holy and spirit appointed.

I am sure they have discussed the "what's next" question.

What's next is what's happening. Moving out of NYC, and into the hills.

What happens after? I think they cut their losses. After the move, financially, they will do their best to calculate what another make over doctrinally will cost them in contributing believers, and decide accordingly.

That is what my gut tells me. They are taking the next 5 years to get ready to gut their own theological throats and reinvent JW's, but only after they have enough cash in the bank to pull it off.

9

Why There Are No Absolutes with Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

a thought occurred to me as i read a couple of posts asking about policy questions.

many who leave jw's seem curious and surprised that someone can be disfellowshipped or get in trouble and yet another fellow jw does the same thing and nothing happens to them?.

so they ask,' what's the policy'?

AllTimeJeff

A thought occurred to me as I read a couple of posts asking about policy questions. Many who leave JW's seem curious and surprised that someone can be disfellowshipped or get in trouble and yet another fellow JW does the same thing and nothing happens to them?

So they ask,' what's the policy'? Then they blame the elders.

While it is NEVER a bad idea to blame the elders, the elders are generally doing what they are told.... by the CO and the Service Dept.

The Governing Body and their mouthpiece to the elders, the Service Dept, have become adept through decades of experience of being what I like to call "unyieldingly flexible."

We all know that whenever it suits their purpose, a brother or sister can either be removed or retained/appointed as a pioneer/MS/elder. The verbiage and logic they use though upsets many in and outside of JW's.

I just wanted to comment on this point: If you are looking for that smoking gun where the GB doesn't follow it's own rules, well, they are always changing them anyway. Do you think a religion that hung it's hat on 1914 and a horrible idea of what the word "generation" would let their own bylaws for elders and oversight get in the way for what they want?

The GB is the 800 pound gorilla. They take the bible, a book that is as ambiguous as Gary Busey on a bender, then translate their own copy of it without really knowing how to translate, and can make it say whatever they want.

Even when they contradict themselves, the GB is right. That is because even though they aren't spirit appointed, they are spirit directed.

See, if they can make shit like that up and sell it, what chance does anyone have?

(pssst. that's why its a cult.)

So don't think of JW's as a factory that has ISO 9001 standards. They have only what is immedietely expedient to them.

I have written a lot about this over the years here on this site and on freeminds about one simple point: The GB is all about them, never about you.

So don't look for absolutes or any consistency. All they care about is finding people they can fool, trick, and keep donating, either their time or their money, so that they can continue on their delusion of grandeur binge that has now lasted well over 100 years.

Peace to all. Tonight I'm gonna party like its 2014!

136

Theology

by sabastious in

jw
friends

theology is the study of religion and religions are human systems of spirituality.

it could then be said that theology is the study of the applications of human spirituality.

human spirituality is a chosen way of life.

AllTimeJeff

"What I want is for people to make an informed decision based on evidence, not deception or ignorance. I think you could even agree with this."

We all can agree on this. The problem godrulz is that you are spouting a version of "truth" that isn't true.

22

So, as it turns out, I was quite the Zombie.

by stray in

i'm a young man.

happily drifting.

the lie was my life.

AllTimeJeff

Stray, I think that because you are leaving for the inhumane treatment of people, you will be a powerful force for good in the lives of others. I wish you the best.

10

Do You Want to be Valid?

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i know how you feel...... you come to this forum for reasons of your own.

we all have as our default settings in our head that everyone else should think and see as we do.. sadly, or happily, the more you expose yourself to others, the more you experience the delicious irony that no one is the same, that god is so different to billions, or non existent to millions...... what we want though when we come here as former jw's isn't agreement, it's validation.. not that everyone else is wrong, but rather, just so that we matter.

that our life wasn't in vain.

AllTimeJeff

The leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses makes it their very first aim to take away your individuality a little at a time. That is why you lose your first name. You are either Brother or Sister. Born in's frequently are corrected to call older JW's "Brother elder" or "Sister pioneer". Totally saps you of you.

In many congregations, you can't even call a fellow JW by their first name unless you aren't involved in theocratic activities.

Little wonder that upon leaving that sickness, we first look for ourselves. If we don't find it quickly, we panic, and head directly for the first teaching or church that makes us feel good and validated, never realizing that we too quickly gave up the search for ourselves.

The discovery of us is the most important thing we can do. Regardless of what it turns into, that respect for ourselves is essential. The lessons we learn on that journey should also teach us to respect the journies of all others too. That is why arguments on who got it right religiously as a group or viewpoint misses the greater point: What is right behavior spiritually?

Is it more important to worship Christ or be Christlike?

Is it more important to be "right" or be loving and accepting?

Is it more important to be with a group, or to take the time to discover who you already are inside?

10

Do You Want to be Valid?

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i know how you feel...... you come to this forum for reasons of your own.

we all have as our default settings in our head that everyone else should think and see as we do.. sadly, or happily, the more you expose yourself to others, the more you experience the delicious irony that no one is the same, that god is so different to billions, or non existent to millions...... what we want though when we come here as former jw's isn't agreement, it's validation.. not that everyone else is wrong, but rather, just so that we matter.

that our life wasn't in vain.

AllTimeJeff

I know how you feel.....

You come to this forum for reasons of your own. We all have as our default settings in our head that everyone else should think and see as we do.

Sadly, or happily, the more you expose yourself to others, the more you experience the delicious irony that no one is the same, that god is so different to billions, or non existent to millions.....

What we want though when we come here as former JW's isn't agreement, it's validation.

Not that everyone else is wrong, but rather, just so that we matter. That our life wasn't in vain. That our time as a JW can have a positive future even if it came from a smelly past.

We thought WE were right.

We thought JEHOVAH was right.

Well, maybe it was JESUS.

DAMN! Is nobody right?

Well, I guess that misses the point. Again.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, joins a religion without getting something in return, even if it is a signed check dated for some time well into the future.

So fine. Be a JW. Or a fundie Christian. Claim all you want that Jesus loves you and will destroy all else. Or forgive. But please be honest and at least admit that your first interest before making sure everyone else was forgiven was to make sure that YOUR ASS WAS FORGIVEN.

There is another way. Many different ways in fact. But all revolve around personal validation.

So if you are tempted to take the easy way out and to have a vocal evangalist or Christian church/group do your thinking for you so that you can feel validated and feel that you belong, that is fine. But remember this:

You were always valid, and you always belonged. :)

You don't need a group or a god to have that.

54

JW's who remain in the organisation but try to reform it - pissing against the wind

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i came across a website that presents decent argumentation against three main areas of jw doctrine.. http://jwreform.org/index.html.

who do these people think they are?

do they really believe that the wts will sit up and take notice of their objections?

AllTimeJeff

" "What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted." - Eccl. 1:15

But nevermind....that's just the Bible...."

Well, it's not like the "Bible" was the only book/entity to notice the inconvenient fact that crooked things aren't going to be made straight.

But nevermind, that's just me.

54

JW's who remain in the organisation but try to reform it - pissing against the wind

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i came across a website that presents decent argumentation against three main areas of jw doctrine.. http://jwreform.org/index.html.

who do these people think they are?

do they really believe that the wts will sit up and take notice of their objections?

AllTimeJeff

Outlaw, you deserve credit as always for cutting through the crap.

People confuse the WBT$ with JW`s..

Exactly. I know it is impossible to understand unless you have seen it, but the WTBT$/GB runs the business of Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses think they are being controlled by Jehovah, but are instead being controlled by the WTBT$/GB.

Otherwise, I just wanted to say I love the title of this thread, because it says it all. What are you trying to reform, and worse, what the hell would you try to keep?

Anyway, good thoughts....