Posts by AllTimeJeff

74

Billy's Comments You Won't Hear at the 01-19-2014 WT Study (7 Shepherds, 8 Dukes)

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

16-20. we shall also have to raise up against him seven shepherds, yes, eight dukes of mankind.mic.

what is the most important thing that you can do now to prepare for any future attack on gods people?.

all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.. .

AllTimeJeff

Great treatment. With GB 2.0 (are we up to version 2.1 now?) they have a tradition to uphold, the tradition of typology. Typology typically means looking for relationships between OT & NT characters. The GB has stretched that to apply it to the 19-21st century existence of JWs.

this article makes Freddy "the oracle" Franz seem readable. There are no conclusions. These are assertions. This is a bible story that history can barely prove true from archaeology. Obviously, not all of it is true. It's a fable that through an accident of history, got picked up by the powers that be and is now given senseless devotion because it is lumped in a book that is thought if as the unerring word of god.

From the JW point of view, all articles and teachings reinforce the power and agenda of the GB. This power is expressed through the elders. There's actually nothing complicated about this at all.

I personally look back on my experiences, and my biggest lesson is this: Be a student of everything, but be no man or groups disciple. Always check out when you are asked to trade in yourself for someone else's agenda.

75

Christmas is WRONG!

by thesaint in

jw
friends

you all should be ashamed of your egotistical selves.

how can you leave god's organization to celebrate the work of satan the devil?

it just goes to show you how jehovah's christian witnesses are correct about how persons will leave the truth for their own selfish desires.. first off, christmas is a pagan holiday and it proves no spirit with the almighty jehovah and his son, the christ.

AllTimeJeff

Merry Xmas!!

just in case anyone on either side has delusions of grandeur, JWs will leave when they're ready, not because of this thread. And they won't stay because of this thread either.

And if either side stays or goes because of this thread, your life will continue to suck.

Otherwise, have some internet fun with this piñata of a troll. Just don't aim for his head, nothing will come out.

17

CO overruling elders on appointments

by toto555 in

if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.

anybody have any experiences along these lines?

is this a good strategy?

AllTimeJeff

Every elder body is different. Whether that was part of the plan or not, there is no consistency with bodies of elders, beyond certain dogmatic basics. And even then, the dynamic will change based on BOE chosen variables like "mercy", "justice", "zeal", etc.

17

CO overruling elders on appointments

by toto555 in

if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.

anybody have any experiences along these lines?

is this a good strategy?

AllTimeJeff

The whole subset on this discussion is a simple matter of organizational politics. All businesses and religions have them.

In JW land, you have to be pretty secure to disagree with a CO, and then, handle it the right way. (i.e. don't ever come across as not liking the CO, the BOE, etc. Don't make it seem personal.)

In most cases, there needs to be unanimous agreement on appointments and deletions. Few fights based on principle occur, because most elders (who were smart politically and thats how they became elders in the first place) know that it simply isn't worth it in the long run. If you get a reputation, or if your cong BOE gets a reputation, that is awfully hard to shed. And a CO with an agenda against you is a mighty major pain in the @$$. Don't start fights you can't win is something that has been working within the walls of JW's for over 100 years now. (well, except that whole 1914 thing..... )

17

CO overruling elders on appointments

by toto555 in

if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.

anybody have any experiences along these lines?

is this a good strategy?

AllTimeJeff

It can work both ways and I've seen it. This mostly occurs if a body of elders recommends someone that for whatever reason, the CO doesn't want to approve. If that happens, and they don't work this out at the elders meeting with the CO, than the CO will forward his letter as to why he doesn't approve of the appointment, along with the elders explaining why they disagre with the CO, along with the summary on the CO's report. In almost all cases, the Service Dept will side with the CO.

In some cases, an elder moves from another congregation and the appointment is held up. If the CO likes the former elder, and there is no "organizational" reason that has been violated, then he will be appointed, even if the new congregation elders don't want it.

There are some "problem" brothers (whom I've since come to learn, have a soul and a mind that they haven't quite wholesaled out to the Borg) whom don't get along with the elders very well, and are always in the CO's ear. Whether they be MS or not, typically, the CO has to ultimately make a call as to whom he will support. If the BOE has a good reputation, the complaining brother will always lose. If for whatever reason, the BOE and their congregation isn't doing good, and the brother can make a good argument, his chances of getting approved do go up.

It is very situational. Bottom line, it is the exception and not the rule when both the BOE and CO do not agree, and yes, a huge portion of that reason is the politics involved.

10

So close, and yet so far away! A lesson in the meaning of "cognitive dissonance".

by Apognophos in

the other week we had a public talk by a brother who surprised me and piqued my interest by describing the origin of religion as resulting from a desire for power, and from fear and superstition.

he was running with the ball so well, but he tripped and landed on his face before he got to the 20 yard line.. i'm not entirely sure what his thought process was.

if i didn't happen to know him, i'd think he was trying to drop a ttatt bomb, but he's way too, well, er, simple-minded to be duplicitous like that.

AllTimeJeff

This sounds like a confused elder who doesn't get the outlline from the borg. Public Talks have been tightened up since I left. They are cardboard boring now, with the occasional loose cannon thrown in. :)

21

introduction

by monis in

i am 39 years old.

i converted to the jws when i was in middle school due to a witness in school and my family having issues at that time.

i found instant friends and family at the kh.

AllTimeJeff

Hello and welcome! Glad to hear you are reclaiming ownership of your mind. :)

Be patient with your husband. He means well. Typically, there is a lot of fear that has to be worked through before one leaves, and some don't want to face it. Your example will help. Live well. Be happy.

186

Just out of curiosity, how many elders (current & ex) do we have here?

by mrquik in

jw
friends

me.

AllTimeJeff

ex-elder. Ex everything, lol

13

Humility? Screw Humility.......

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

.....said the exiting jw.. this jw saw it all, the games, the politics.

oh, and how this quality of "humility" was used as an anvil to keep, not just your actions in line, but your thoughts and feelings as well.. the leadership of jw's is an extremely talented bunch.

they know exactly how to reframe concepts to their own ends.. so, once you have your awakening, and you leave, and you remember how often you were symbolically on your knees all the time, you say "never again!".

AllTimeJeff

Like most positive qualities, some have humility, and others don't. Ben Franklin in his autobiography famously stopped pursuing humility (after a friend said he should have that as his 13th quality to inculcate into his personality) because he wasn't interested in it. I suppose that since he was Ben freaking Franklin, he might have been one of the few people to get away with not having to pursue it.

Where low self esteem and arrogance end, and real humility begins, is something each of us have to figure out for ourselves. Know this, it has nothing to do with hating yourself, low self esteem, beating yourself up.....

.....or the opposites of that, arrogance, wanting/needing to fight for your arguements beyond a reasonable period of time, thinking that previous accomplishments = your superiority.....

Should be a fun lifelong pursuit for me. I'd like to beat Ben Franklin at something..... ;)

9

Has anyone Heard of things going on?

by Shaul in

jw
friends

hi ; we got a text from one of our children today .

her and her brother are basically are disowning us .

we haven't gone to meetings for a while .

AllTimeJeff

It's called emotional blackmail. I engaged in it at the height of my indoctrinated stay. If it helps, please know that deep down, this is something that they are being taught to do. No one would sanely choose to do this to their family.