AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  18

  Question for Christians

  by FreudianSlip in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do i have to love god to get into the good place?

  let's assume i believe and follow all of the rules out of obligation and not love, is that enough?.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Btw, and I feel really stupid, this is for Christians, which I am not. Sorry about that. I hope you don't mind my expression. :)
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  18

  Question for Christians

  by FreudianSlip in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do i have to love god to get into the good place?

  let's assume i believe and follow all of the rules out of obligation and not love, is that enough?.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I respect your search and journey, first off.

  I notice, and it strikes me as funny in a non laughing way, that when former JW's get confused about god, they come here and ask... us.

  FS, I personally think that other then helping you to think, no one here can help you to know if god loves you. I say that only because ultimately, you would be taking someone else's word for it.

  It would be much better, assuming god exists, that he communicate to you in a way that you understand.

  You are free to make the choices you feel you should make. Your god and choice of how to worship, to express love and faith, or not, is something that ultimately, you must answer.
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  18

  God the Great Watcher With Hurt Feelings, Rage, Jealousy and Everything Human

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the idea of a god that made everything, knows everything, and has feelings and opinions about everything seems a bit preposterous and based on a pile of assumptions which are extremely anthropomorphic in nature.. needless to say the biblical deity resembles a human with megalomania, or a human with an inflated ego.

  he demands love from his worshippers with nothing less than to love him with ones whole heart and soul.

  based to a large part on godly fear and terror, for the consequences of not loving him are,, ah well,,punishment of some sort depending on which brand of religion or interpretation one subscribes to.

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  AllTimeJeff

  BTS, one reason I respect you is that you do accept responsibility for your beliefs, and I think you take into account (sometimes) how others have been affected by JW's, or even organized religion in general.

  I wish more people were like you. I doubt that you would agree with me, but I don't think you would hold it over my head either as a divisive issue.

  I don't begrudge theists. I just wish they could learn that their ideas and theories and beliefs aren't the only game in town.

  As for the point of this thread, it has long been noted how the OT god in particular seems a bit petulant, and less majestic, to the little group of desert wanderers he claimed as his own.
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  89

  How the Internet Means 'The End' for Apostates and Opposers of the Society

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the received wisdom is that the internet has dramatically damaged the ability of the watchtower society to gain and retain followers.

  there was a very eloquent article to that effect written some time ago by a commentator who attempted to buttress his argument with reference to the postmodern condition and the breakdown of metanarratives in todays secular society, nay, even the come-back for enlightenment notions of truth.

  in the 1970/80s there were major challenges to the watchtowers theology (great crowd in heaven) and chronology (1914) in norway, alberta canada, dublin ireland and in the newyork bethel itself: but the damage caused by those involved in the dissent was limited because knowledge was dispersed merely through personal contact and minimal use of obscure publications that seldom met the eyes of witnesses innocent of the watchtowers doctrinal and chronological vacillations in any case.

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  AllTimeJeff

  On the other hand the Internet has tended to promote the "fade" as the form of exit from the Watchtower, which in many ways helps the Watchtower to silence local voices of dissent.

  Interesting thought. A couple of opinions of mine on the value of dissent where JW's are concerned.

  • We all know that dissent has long been handled by disfellowshipping for apostasy, esp since 1980. So there is no such thing as a real dissent movement.
  • In the past, people who decided that JW's weren't the "truth™" simply left. Any attempt at talking about personal doubts or efforts to expose factual history regarding WT lies always resulted in disfellowshipping, thus limiting said dissent. If a few people left on the way, well, to the GB, that is the cost of doing business. (i.e. leave all you want, we'll baptize more teens )
  • Many who were distressed JW's prior to the internet often stuck around, emotionally going through weeks where they psyched themselves up to convince themselves, and spent other weeks depressed. Dissent never was at the top, or even bottom, of these people's lists.
  • Prior to the internet, these distressed JW's were stuck. Post internet, they are either faders or potential faders. The internet gives them the one option they didn't know they had pre internet, the information to keep their friends and family, the only reason that these distressed JW's ever wanted to really stay in.
  • There is only one reason to fade, and that is to avoid shunning via disfellowshipping, thus keeping friends and family. These ones are not interested in dissent, they just want to have access to loved ones. It is the only option, it is a loophole, and it really wasn't a relevant idea until the mid 90's, where 2 JW/Dickinsonian coincidences occurred: 1) The teaching of the Generation that saw 1914 changed, causing a noted loss of zeal and motivation. 2) The internet exploded. The mix of the 2 roughly at the same time caused fading to be a theory/option that many who wouldn't have thought of it for themselves now had as an option introduced by others.

  Dissent is totally a different subject imo. Dissent is a misnomer. I think "protest" more accurately describes what we internet apostates engage in. In short, thanks to their own bylaws, there exists no real way for dissent to occur. Thus a JW who wants to leave has two options, leave with both middle fingers in the air or fade. These are the only purposeful, proactive exits a JW who wishes to leave can engage in.

  Sorry for the dry language, it just helps me to organize my thoughts....
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  190

  What's your personality type? Myers-Briggs test

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take this 72 yes/no question test to find out.. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Your Type is ENFJ

  Extraverted	Intuitive	Feeling	Judging
  Strength of the preferences %
  11	25	25	1

  ENFJ type description by D.Keirsey
  ENFJ Identify Your Career with Jung Career Indicator™ ENFJ Famous Personalities
  ENFJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss

  Qualitative analysis of your type formula

  You are:

  • slightly expressed extravert
  • moderately expressed intuitive personality
  • moderately expressed feeling personality
  • slightly expressed judging personality
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  21

  Identifying Michael the ArchAngel!

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  " {john 8:23 hcsb}.

  " {john 6:62 hcsb}.

  18 "then jesus came near and said to them, "all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Same. Life is good and it sucks at the same time Isaac. Thats quite the negotiation to pull off.. :)
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  21

  Identifying Michael the ArchAngel!

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  " {john 8:23 hcsb}.

  " {john 6:62 hcsb}.

  18 "then jesus came near and said to them, "all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hey Issac! Long time no see. Did you notice a prophet has risen among us again?

  I don't know how long Jesus will take to execute judgment, but its been 2000 years? Can someone tell him to hurry up please? Or will I be the latest batch to "miss it by thaaat much"?
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  21

  Identifying Michael the ArchAngel!

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  " {john 8:23 hcsb}.

  " {john 6:62 hcsb}.

  18 "then jesus came near and said to them, "all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Many today, do not believe that Michael the Archangel and the Christ are one and the same person. Of course, that is understandable, because it never directly states in the Bible, that they are. Conversely, it never directly states that they are not either. So, we are left with using the evidence supplied in the Holy Writings to prove whether they are, or, whether they are not. It's really not what others believe, or feel they have proven to themselves, about any scriptural matter. Each individual, is to prove to themselves alone, about the truth of any matter. No one can prove to anyone else, anything about the Bible. Each individual is under obligation to prove it first, to themselves alone, and then, as opportunity presents itself, pass that knowledge on to others. Whether they believe it or not, is their exclusive right, as long as you have tried to fulfill your obligations. Nothing more can be asked of them, or you.

  Wannabe, this is mostly reasonable of you. Just like JW's, and other religions, you have a take on who Michael the Archangel is. You say it is up to us what we believe.

  Yet you say that we have an obligation to prove it to ourselves first.

  So that means, that I am obligated to consider the possibility that Michael the Archangel is real and that since he isn't identified I have to take what, your clues? JW's? The Moonies?

  Christians always say "Are you sure that you haven't really given it a chance? The bible?"

  Yup, I have, so this commentary, speaking for me, is wrong. Jesus might very well be a historical figure of note, but Michael the Archangel has more in common with Woody Woodpecker then oh, say, Ronald Reagan.

  Anyway, deconstructing JW dogma and replacing it with your own ideas doesn't seem to me to be the most productive use of time. Of course, it is Presidents day. Good luck!
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  13

  “Jehovah’s relationship towards Christians is like an internet that links his humble love for everyone,”

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  steve lett - gb - interesting comment**********************************huge attendance on witnesss special gathering monday, 15 february 2010 08:26 .

  over 3000 members of the jehovahs witness religion braced the strong heat at lawson tama yesterday morning to hear gods word delivered through an invited speaker.. .

  it was an awaited gathering which witnesss members prepared for in the past weeks.. .

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  AllTimeJeff

  Does he even realize what he said?
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  55

  JWs growing in numbers despite opposition and criticism from apostates and other religious commentators. Why?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe there are now over 7 million jws worldwide(correct me if i am wrong).

  what makes this growth possible despite all the exposure on the internet and other media?.

  not forgetting court cases and lawsuits.. is this not a sign that perhaps this is the true religion?.

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  AllTimeJeff

  If you need statistics as opposed to facts to determine your version of a true religion, then honestly, you only need to answer to yourself.

  I wouldn't overrate the amount of criticism from apostates. I wouldn't underrate the amount of apathy most people have about JW's. We apostates were the last ones to figure out that this group is a crazy fringe group cult. If the rest of the world at large doesn't really care what we apostates have to say, its only because they are saying in essence, "Yeah, duh! What took you all so long."

  Why start with a false premise anyway? Who says the "true religion™" must be persecuted and spoken against? Doesn't make any sense, esp since all religions can claim that they are spoken against.

  Their growth doesn't mean much either. Annually, between 2-300,000 are baptized, but they only grow by a million every 10 years? You do the math.