I can't adopt anyone, but I would be happy to be in the JWN Big Brother program. (not the 1984 version) I mentor 2 hours at a time, after which, I drop you back off at home.
I promise as I mentor not to debate politics or religion...
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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322
God and Suffering
by AK - Jeff ina few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.
the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.
today i came across this:.
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AllTimeJeff
Just to weigh in on PSac approach.
I obviously don't agree with PSac's beliefs per se. On the other hand, I can easily respect it, as others here have brought out. And it is a lot closer to what I would believe were I a Christian. PSac at least acknowledges the problems of suffering, he has his own conclusion on it, and most refreshingly for me, this conclusion is for himself. It's personal. To me, thats how it should be. In addition, PSac doesn't begrudge anyone their own beliefs. To me, it would be grand if Christianity evolved to PSac's views instead of stay stagnant.
When I debate theism in the abstract, I personally believe that we all need to be careful in what we are deconstructing, as well as why. Superpunk, I really enjoy your posts always, just very logical and respectful. I agree with most of your premises.
To me, there is a BIG difference between debating group faith and personal faith. To that, Perry and PSac both speak from their personal faith. The difference to me is that PSac is respectful and non dogmatic. Perry's views are not. PSac allows for my own path, and everyone else here. Perry believes in a god that will destroy us all eventually, since we are born sinners and thus merit the suffering that we are experiencing right now, unless of course, we accept Jesus.
I won't debate much with a sincere theist who has their own personal faith and that means a lot to them. Why would I want to take that away from someone?
PSac, as long as you don't shove your god down my throat, you and I are good bro. Thanks for not condemning me as part of your belief system.
Having said that, AKJeff's and SuperPunk have made great points that I don't think are easily answered by anyone's version of theism. It's tough, wish God would do something about it, you know?
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70
Does Anyone Miss Being In The Jehovah's Witness Cult?
by minimus ini saw 6 jw zombies walking up a hill near where i live the other day.
they all were dressed nicely.
they walked together in twos.
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AllTimeJeff
It was a good question Minimus.
I DO miss the good memories I had. My experiences weren't typical, and for a while, being a JW fed a very immature, insulated worldview that I inherited.
Of course, its just like the Matrix, once you realize what its all about, you can't go back, no matter how much you want to.
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Camera users beware
by IMHO inmost people use a camera these days (if only on a mobile phone) but be wary of using an slr camera at a convention.. i heard of somone who was stopped by 'security' and questioned as to why they were using an slr and implied that you may be taken for a peadophile if you do..
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AllTimeJeff
SLR's = pedophilia?
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322
God and Suffering
by AK - Jeff ina few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.
the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.
today i came across this:.
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AllTimeJeff
Perry, God IGNORES HIS CHILDREN TODAY!
In the bible, God CLEARLY BEATS HIS CHILDREN!
Lets get that out of the way.
Why bring Adam into the picture? What about YOUR sin Jeff? What about my sin? It is not necessary to invoke Adam or the Genesis account to examine that is it? I cannot measure Adam, but each can measure his or herself.
What? Perry, if Adam didn't "sin", would "Jesus" need to die for our since in order to be reconciled to god?
NO!
Premise = False. What are you talking about 'Why bring Adam into it?' Because if you don't believe in original sin, then the whole need for Jesus sacrifice as the old ancient book the bible describes, is not necessary. You do remember saying this to me and asking me to "prove" it.
Just the God and Suffering Reconciliation part ATJ
Show me the illogic.
What you don't get is that I AM NOT A SINNER AND I AM NOT SEPARATED FROM GOD AND THUS NOT IN NEED OF JESUS SACRIFICE OR RECONCILIATION TO GOD. I BASE THIS ON THE FACT THAT THE GENESIS ACCOUNT IS FICTION. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
You are moving from A to B to C without properly engaging in any substantive conversation, JW style. How can you be taken seriously?
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Should The Police Be Able To Search Without A Warrant?
by minimus infor example, if you were stopped for suspiscion of driving under the influence, should the police be allowed to search through your cell phone?.
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AllTimeJeff
Enjoyed reading this.
HELL NO the police shouldn't search without warrants. Probable cause is the easiest thing to invent. It's tantamount to saying "I felt like searching them."
The constitutional ammendments in question are not the problem in this instance. And although As an aside since it was mentioned, while I like to call myself a liberal here, one thing I disagree with the Dems is over wepons and guns. I know in other countries, you can't get guns, only the governements get them, and so yeah, violent crimes are down. Thats a fact.
And that will never happen in the United States of America. YOU try going up to Northern Michingan and telling those guys that they can't have guns anymore. What we really need is to enforce existing laws and make gun crimes more serious then drug crimes.
Anyway, this turned into how the Consititution can be changed. It won't be, and for that I am thankful. It keeps things like banning Gay Marriage away from Constitutional law. It forces law makers and citizenry to confront their issues without having knee jerk reactions with unintended consequences.
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The WHO at the Super Bowl!
by lepermessiah ini was having a conversation with a younger guy at work - he barely knew who the who was....... he was telling me that he recognized the songs but thought they sounded pretty rough.. i told him that i wish he could have seen them even 10 years ago - i saw them live in 2000 and roger still sounded awesome, and pete was still.....pete!.
the real big loss was losing the ox - john entwistle was so important to that band.
he was amazing live....... moon was a huge loss, but after je passed, i really wish they would have stopped performing live as the who.. here is an awesome taste of him in action.......rip ox............ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvl39lbzgmw.
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AllTimeJeff
At least Daltry got the scream at the end alright. That would have been unforgivable to mess up.
Also, it would have set CSI back years....
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In This Issue: 'Meat in Due Season'--Do We Eat It Gratefully?
by sd-7 inin this time of the end, the world continues to degenerate further and further into wickedness.
indeed, "wicked men and imposters advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.
" (2 tim.
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AllTimeJeff
My bologna has a first name....
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Yay, Canada gets it's first Olympic Gold Medial on home-soil
by Simon in(well, snow actually).
can you believe it?
we didn't get a gold in the montreal or calgary olympics !.
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AllTimeJeff
It's hard to be an American and root for Canada... Thats who I want to see in the Gold medal game.
Btw, I know this is a cold war hangover, but seeing Russia lose at anything never gets old.... The Ovechkin Ovechkins are going to rock their way to 4th place, Bronze if they're lucky.
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Is Believing in God Immoral?
by AK - Jeff ina recurrent theme thrust forward by many theists is that morality is unattainable without belief in god.
the idea seems to pervade that thinking, that without god-restraint, fear of lost eternity, man would run seriously amok, freely plundering, murdering, and bringing general havoc upon the innocent.
might there be some logical points to counter such thinking.
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AllTimeJeff
Oh man, I am having trouble seeing the responses... Not this one!
AKJeff, ignore the attempts of some to derail this and be sure to restart it if we can't get more replies.