you all should be ashamed of your egotistical selves.
how can you leave god's organization to celebrate the work of satan the devil?
it just goes to show you how jehovah's christian witnesses are correct about how persons will leave the truth for their own selfish desires.. first off, christmas is a pagan holiday and it proves no spirit with the almighty jehovah and his son, the christ.
Merry Xmas!!
just in case anyone on either side has delusions of grandeur, JWs will leave when they're ready, not because of this thread. And they won't stay because of this thread either.
And if either side stays or goes because of this thread, your life will continue to suck.
Otherwise, have some internet fun with this piñata of a troll. Just don't aim for his head, nothing will come out.
if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.
anybody have any experiences along these lines?
is this a good strategy?
Every elder body is different. Whether that was part of the plan or not, there is no consistency with bodies of elders, beyond certain dogmatic basics. And even then, the dynamic will change based on BOE chosen variables like "mercy", "justice", "zeal", etc.
if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.
anybody have any experiences along these lines?
is this a good strategy?
The whole subset on this discussion is a simple matter of organizational politics. All businesses and religions have them.
In JW land, you have to be pretty secure to disagree with a CO, and then, handle it the right way. (i.e. don't ever come across as not liking the CO, the BOE, etc. Don't make it seem personal.)
In most cases, there needs to be unanimous agreement on appointments and deletions. Few fights based on principle occur, because most elders (who were smart politically and thats how they became elders in the first place) know that it simply isn't worth it in the long run. If you get a reputation, or if your cong BOE gets a reputation, that is awfully hard to shed. And a CO with an agenda against you is a mighty major pain in the @$$. Don't start fights you can't win is something that has been working within the walls of JW's for over 100 years now. (well, except that whole 1914 thing..... )
if a brother wants to reach out to be elder, yet brothers are holding him back for dubious reasons, can/should a brother approach the co and ask him what he needs to be done to be appointed or perhaps having a discussion along the lines of why the elders are holding him unfairly back.
anybody have any experiences along these lines?
is this a good strategy?
It can work both ways and I've seen it. This mostly occurs if a body of elders recommends someone that for whatever reason, the CO doesn't want to approve. If that happens, and they don't work this out at the elders meeting with the CO, than the CO will forward his letter as to why he doesn't approve of the appointment, along with the elders explaining why they disagre with the CO, along with the summary on the CO's report. In almost all cases, the Service Dept will side with the CO.
In some cases, an elder moves from another congregation and the appointment is held up. If the CO likes the former elder, and there is no "organizational" reason that has been violated, then he will be appointed, even if the new congregation elders don't want it.
There are some "problem" brothers (whom I've since come to learn, have a soul and a mind that they haven't quite wholesaled out to the Borg) whom don't get along with the elders very well, and are always in the CO's ear. Whether they be MS or not, typically, the CO has to ultimately make a call as to whom he will support. If the BOE has a good reputation, the complaining brother will always lose. If for whatever reason, the BOE and their congregation isn't doing good, and the brother can make a good argument, his chances of getting approved do go up.
It is very situational. Bottom line, it is the exception and not the rule when both the BOE and CO do not agree, and yes, a huge portion of that reason is the politics involved.
the other week we had a public talk by a brother who surprised me and piqued my interest by describing the origin of religion as resulting from a desire for power, and from fear and superstition.
he was running with the ball so well, but he tripped and landed on his face before he got to the 20 yard line.. i'm not entirely sure what his thought process was.
if i didn't happen to know him, i'd think he was trying to drop a ttatt bomb, but he's way too, well, er, simple-minded to be duplicitous like that.
This sounds like a confused elder who doesn't get the outlline from the borg. Public Talks have been tightened up since I left. They are cardboard boring now, with the occasional loose cannon thrown in. :)
i am 39 years old.
i converted to the jws when i was in middle school due to a witness in school and my family having issues at that time.
i found instant friends and family at the kh.
Hello and welcome! Glad to hear you are reclaiming ownership of your mind. :)
Be patient with your husband. He means well. Typically, there is a lot of fear that has to be worked through before one leaves, and some don't want to face it. Your example will help. Live well. Be happy.
ex-elder. Ex everything, lol
.....said the exiting jw.. this jw saw it all, the games, the politics.
oh, and how this quality of "humility" was used as an anvil to keep, not just your actions in line, but your thoughts and feelings as well.. the leadership of jw's is an extremely talented bunch.
they know exactly how to reframe concepts to their own ends.. so, once you have your awakening, and you leave, and you remember how often you were symbolically on your knees all the time, you say "never again!".
Like most positive qualities, some have humility, and others don't. Ben Franklin in his autobiography famously stopped pursuing humility (after a friend said he should have that as his 13th quality to inculcate into his personality) because he wasn't interested in it. I suppose that since he was Ben freaking Franklin, he might have been one of the few people to get away with not having to pursue it.
Where low self esteem and arrogance end, and real humility begins, is something each of us have to figure out for ourselves. Know this, it has nothing to do with hating yourself, low self esteem, beating yourself up.....
.....or the opposites of that, arrogance, wanting/needing to fight for your arguements beyond a reasonable period of time, thinking that previous accomplishments = your superiority.....
Should be a fun lifelong pursuit for me. I'd like to beat Ben Franklin at something..... ;)
hi ; we got a text from one of our children today .
her and her brother are basically are disowning us .
we haven't gone to meetings for a while .
It's called emotional blackmail. I engaged in it at the height of my indoctrinated stay. If it helps, please know that deep down, this is something that they are being taught to do. No one would sanely choose to do this to their family.
check out the watchtower's erroneous definitions/descriptions of evolution and creationism in paragraphs 2 and 3 respectively on page 7 of the october 15, 2013 watchtower:.
"in its basic form, the teaching of evolution asserts that all life came into existence spontaneously.
"on the other hand, fundamentalists of christendom teach that the universe, including our earth and all life on it, is only a few thousand years old.
JWs and fundamentalist Christians hijack the real meaning of of the word and twist it to their own ends, as they are wont to do in any subject.
