Posts by Eliveleth

45

My Current Battle

by KW13 in

jw
friends

ranting individuals need not reply.

i need encouragement and general advice, personal accounts etc.. am i a christian or am i not?

i've come to a point where i'm not sure whether or not i want to believe in anything, at the moment i'm confused as to whether i am a believer or whether i am someone recovering from indoctrination.. i feel that i've not had a 'pure' opportunity to decide if i want to be a believe and although the thought has been in the back of my mind, the conditioning has made me delay it and my current circumstances and poor health are forcing me to face it - i fear facing it will make me worse because its yet another thing i am not really mentally strong enough to deal with.. is it natural i fear what being an atheist means for me.

Eliveleth

Am i a Christian or am i not? If i am not, what am i?

I think we all have that thought when we first are delivered from the WT mentality. We all have doubts that Jehovah and His organization are the true religion.

When we first came out, my husband did not attend any church, but I became associated with an interdenominational Christian women's group. Later we both attended a church.

Now we do not go to any church. We realized that organized religion is not necessarily Christianity. I believe there are Christians in different religions, but that it is not necessary to

attend church to be saved. Having doubts, I would suggest that because the Bible says, "If you believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved", just ask Him, tell Him what you are thinking

and ask for direction. You don't offend God by questioning, regardless of what the WT says. Unlike the WT, Jesus loves you unconditionally. He knows you are having doubts. You don't have to fear about

dealing with this because God will not condemn you. Read Romans 8, I think it will set your mind at ease.

Personally I think a lot of people feel empty because they are praying to Jehovah. I believe that the Jehovah of the WT is a FALSE GOD. The things they teach about Him, I believe are not found in the Bible.

If you do research on the name, you will find that it is a "made up" name, not the name of the God of the Bible.

It takes time to orient our thinking once we leave. We are still to a large degree, in the WT because of the way we feel and believe. It takes time. Just step back, relax and not try to push. God will not pressure

you. He knows your heart. You are not failing. God is just waiting. Please don't feel like you have to get involved in a religion to please God. I think that God really heard you when you were being real and shouting

at Him. He doesn't get offended by our emotions, He made us, He knows us, He loves us. I do not claim to know why some prayers are not answered in the way we expect them to. I lost a wonderful little grandson

at the age of 5 and I asked God that myself. I believe he is with Jesus. I have come to believe that "the good do die young". They are the ones that escape. Don't be afraid. God will show you the way.

Love and hugs,

Velta

24

Were U Surprised When Certain People Left The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when certain "pillars" left the fold, were you shocked?

Eliveleth

Willyloman,

Since you are in this area of California, did you see Mr. Flipper's post about the 4th of July Apostafest?

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/150159/2.ashx

It would be fun to meet you and your wife.

Love and hugs,

Velta

24

Were U Surprised When Certain People Left The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when certain "pillars" left the fold, were you shocked?

Eliveleth

I am sure a lot of people were very surprised when my husband was disfellowshipped. He had been an elder since 1945 (they called them servants then). He was cafeterial servant for the Spanish in So. Cal from 1960 until we left that area and came north. He was cafeterial servant from the time they built the new assembly hall in Yuba City sometime in the early 70s. He was on special committees and was never absent from a KH build as a painting and drywall contractor. He was always there, always doing for the witnesses, sometimes going several hundred miles taking care of some WT business. He stepped down from being an elder in 1981 over some foolishness foisted upon the congregation by an elder "friend" and then in 1983 began to fade. I stopped going early in 1983 and Joe kept going until it just got to be too much. He asked me to go to the memorial with him that year and I did, but it was to be the last meeting I would attend. He attended sporadically and then we were called in to a committee early in December and finally disfellowshipped on Dec. 24, 1983. We attended the District Assembly the next summer in Reno, NV. This was my sister's assembly. Joe said: "Why should be go?" and I said "They said to us that people who leave just seem to disappear, so let's go and show them we haven't". As we walked through the assembly hall, during the lunch break, it was like a wave of turned heads. My sister called me after the assembly and said: " I have questions to ask you. Did Joe ask to have equal time on the assembly? Has he started his own religion and is he part of Ray Franz' organization?" Made me laugh! Knowing how Ray Franz feels about organized religion, he would never start an organization of his own!!! I guess we were just too bold for their religious sensibilities. I guess most people would have stayed away.

Ruth,

I can see your "Jezebelian tendencies" too. This is what the elders told my DIL about me. Said I had pulled my whole family out of the "truth". I didn't realize how influential I was. hee hee We are the well-known local "apostates" in the Sacramento Valley.

The only down side of leaving the WT was the losing of all of our "friends" who we had held so dear for the almost half century we were JWs, and our family. Both our mothers lived with us and circumstances made it impossible for them to disfellowship even if they had wanted to (which I know they didn't) Our son died last November, but he and his family were staunch witnesses and we have not seem them from 1995 until this day. My sister and her family are still in also.

Many people we knew have left. Some due to the way they saw us treated. God works in mysterious ways and I know that we will see a lot more leave.

Love and hugs,

Velta

24

Posting for the first time

by southern belle in

jw
friends

i have recently gotten myself out of the org.

after 2.5 yrs.

of research about the org.

Eliveleth

Southern Belle,

Welcome!! I was raised in the organization too. My husband and I were in for 50 years. At the time, we did not have the support that the Internet provides. It was very hard losing all the friends that we had made all those years. Know how hard it must be for you too. I was second generation, my kids were third. We lost our son when we left along with my sister. Our mothers were still in the organization but since they lived with us, they did not disfellowship us. Honey, do not mistake zeal and loyalty to the WT organization as "spirituality" The really spiritual people are the ones who display the "fruitages of the spirit" such as love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, long-suffering and self-control. When they disfellowship you, to my way of seeing it, they do not display these characteristics. Nor do the ones who shun you. I hope you find the support and love you need here on JWD. There are a lot of understanding people here.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

18

The Father of the Watchtower Society

by Honesty in

jw
friends

do you think jehovah is the father of the watchtower society?

Eliveleth

dog,

It is very simple. You just have to ask Jesus to come into your life. From that point on you let Him show you what His will is and follow it. Don't get me wrong. I have not followed perfectly. I have made many

mistakes in the past 76 years, but that is what grace is all about. God forgives us. He knows that we will make mistakes and has covered this part of our lives. He is not the harsh taskmaster that the WT portrays

Him as. He wants us to succeed and live productive lives. His rules are not about depriving us of pleasure, but about warning us of the consequences of not following them. He made us, He knows what will harm us

and he has written instructions as to what is best for us. Just as a manufacturer puts out a manual for the care of the product so it will work the way it should and last longer, so God gives us a manual. He does not

prevent us from not following it and making mistakes, but He will help us if we ask.

I trust Him to provide for me

and show me what is best for my life. This may not sound like freedom to you, but to me it is the best way to live. I am truly happy. For a lot of people who have a need to control

their own life or destiny this will not work. God created us to be free to choose. My God does not demand anything from me that I am not willing to give. I do not feel controlled by Him, just loved. I trust Him and He

has never failed me.

I still use my intellect, I question things, I do research and make decisions. I do not think God condemns these things, I believe that He made me to be this way.. I believe that God sent Jesus, His Son to die for my

sins and that if I believe in Him, He will provide for me and protect me. It is not what I do (although I try to live a life that is good, I may fail in many ways) I believe it is knowing Jesus that is important, not my works.

I believe that God made mankind and put him on earth to take care of the earth and animals and to love other people, just as they are and not how we might wish them to be, unconditionally,

I did not have this view of God as a JW. Although I might not have appeared so on the outside, I was self-righteous. I trusted the WT, believing it was God's organization. I believed that only we JWs would survive

Armageddon. I did not believe that God would guide me or take care of me outside of his organization. I always believed that I had to "work hard" to survive into the new world. I said I trusted God, but was always a

little fearful that I was not doing enough to please him. This is the difference between a faith based on works and grace. Grace is believing and trusting God for salvation and not yourself or any organization. For

many people who have been hurt by an organization that claims God is its founder, it is hard to ever trust God. We cannot do it on our own, but if we ask God He will show us the way.

This may seem too simple, but over the years, I have found that living this way has brought me peace and joy.

I pray that all you dear people will find Jesus. His load really is light.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

18

The Father of the Watchtower Society

by Honesty in

jw
friends

do you think jehovah is the father of the watchtower society?

Eliveleth

no apologies, TJ,

Dear ones,

I don't think that one has to know the name of the true God. I believe you have to KNOW Him and have a relationship with Him. The WT never allowed this or even taught it was possible.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

18

The Father of the Watchtower Society

by Honesty in

jw
friends

do you think jehovah is the father of the watchtower society?

Eliveleth

A few days ago TJ -i am cleared for landing posted his story on JWD. At one place he made the statement

" I loved Jehovah, too. I prayed to him ALL the time to help save me and my siblings from the injustices at home. I prayed and cried that he'd make me a good child, so they would not beat me, so they would love me instead. I tried hard to make sure I did what was right in his eyes".

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/150796/2.ashx

This touched my heart. He had cried out to Jehovah and from the rest of the story, it seems that Jehovah did not hear or answer his prayer. This made me wonder. Why? I started praying about this and have come to this conclusion. False gods are made up by man and cannot hear or answer prayer. I believe that the Jehovah of the Watchtower is not the God of the Bible. I believe this for many reasons. Mostly because of the attributes that the Watchtower applies to this god. They say that if your family does not believe in the Watchtower teachings, Jehovah will destroy them as well as all the other people on the earth who do not believe as they teach. The Bible God sent His Son, Jesus to earth to save mankind. They are many other things they teach that I believe are not the teachings of the True God. I Googled "Jehovah-a false god" and this is part of what I found. There are hundreds more references that I have yet to check out.

The Name of God

Another effective avenue of witnessing to the Witnesses is in the name of God. Jehovah's Witnesses state that God's true name is "Jehovah." They say the term "God," is merely a title, and that the real name for God is "Jehovah." In fact they go so far as to say that unless one calls on the true name of God, "Jehovah," one cannot be saved.(7)

Let's take a real close look at the name "Jehovah" and see if it is in fact the true name of God. The term "Jehovah" is actually a false reading of the Hebrew pronunciation of God, or YAHWEH. Allow me to explain where the word "Jehovah" comes from. The words in the Hebrew Old Testament contained no vowels. The words were constructed of consonant letters only. The Scribes knew what vowels to use in the pronunciation of the words by the construction of the consonants, the context, and memory. It was written this way until the fifth century when the Masoretes added the vowels under the consonants in their version of the Old Testament known as the Masoretic Text.

The name of God in the Old Testament spelled YHWH, was considered holy, and was not to be read aloud. Instead, when the Hebrews came upon YHWH, they would say ADONAY, which means "Lord." In order to indicate this substitution, the Massoretes placed the vowels of ADONAY or the English equivalent of e, o, and a underneath the consonants of YHWH. Later some Christian translators mistakenly combined the vowels of ADONAY with the consonants of YHWH producing the word "Jehovah." Now the term is recognized to be a late hybrid form never used by the Jews. That's the origin of the word "Jehovah." Let's now look at what other scholars say about the name "Jehovah."

Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

: "Jehovah" -- False reading of the Hebrew YAHWEH.(8)

Encyclopedia Americana

: "Jehovah" -- erroneous form of the name of the God of Israel.(9)

Encyclopedia Britannica

: The Masoretes who from the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or Elohim. Thus the artificial name Jehovah came into being.(10)

The Jewish Encyclopedia

: "Jehovah" -- a mispronunciation of the Hebrew YHWH the name of God. This pronunciation is grammatically impossible.(11)

The New Jewish Encyclopedia:

It is clear that the word Jehovah is an artificial composite.(12)

According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, p. 680, vol. 7, "the true pronunciation of the tetragrammaton YHWH was never lost. The name was pronounced Yahweh. It was regularly pronounced this way at least until 586 B.C., as is clear from the Lachish Letters written shortly before this date."

Therefore, for Jehovah's Witnesses to insist Jehovah is the true name of God and that one is saved only if he calls on that name, is an error. When Witnesses appear at your door explain to them the name "Jehovah" and read what the scholars say about Jehovah. Also remember, God uses many names for Himself such as, King of Kings, the Lion of Judah, the Alpha and the Omega, and others. When JWs realize what the authoritative sources have to say, especially the encyclopedia references, they will begin to realize the need to take a serious look at this error in the organization.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/jehovah.html

Just though this was an appropriate place for this thought. Although the writer of this seems to think that by showing JWs the error that they will change, I think that is a little naive, but at least it might make them think.

Love and hugs,

Velta

9

what is this about ??

by memphisbelle in

i have been a jw for thirty years, attending meetings at the same kh all this time.

about seven years ago, i began to wonder to myself if the jws were the only religion that god approves of.

six years ago, a very good childhood friend of mine died from a long illness, ( he was not a jw) and i was quite bothered by his death.

Eliveleth

Memphisbelle,

Welcome to the group!!!

My husband and I found ourselves in this same predicament in 1983. We had been reading the Bible with a single sister and her two daughters (the New World Translation, of course) when we came across the scripture in Luke 11:11-13 which said that we could ask for Holy Spirit. When I prayed for Holy Spirit in a situation where exJWs were questioning whether the "great crowd" in Revelation were in heaven or on earth. I was expecting that I would find that the WT Society was right!!!, Imagine my surprise after reading the Kingdom Interlinear Translation and checking the Greek, that I found that they were in heaven. I fully expected to find out that the WT was right, esp. after praying for HS to guide me. I found out the truth. God is the hearer and answerer of prayer. The more you ask, the more you will receive.

May God bless you in your quest for truth.

Love and hugs,

Velta

www.geocities.com/veliveleth

83

Yesterday my father informed me that he will shun me...

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

but only if a judicial committee tells him to.. if they say i'm inactive and let me be, he can still talk to me.. it's meaningless, because i would never meet with a jc, but he let me know where he stands.. he's dead to me.. i'm not hurting.. lost tons of respect for the man.. i told him he was brainwashed and left him without saying goodbye.. to no longer live for his approval was liberating, but this is even better.. i told him that i couldn't do that to my son.. his response?.

unconditional love is a lie.. you only get unconditional love from a dog.. sick, brainwashed, emotionally bankrupt man.. p.s.- not looking for cyber hugs.

just sharing the experience for others going through similar things and for lurkers to see what this cult does to people.. regards,.

Eliveleth

Nate,

My heart goes out to you. I had a lot of erudite wisdom to offer you when I first started reading this thread, but others have said it better than I could have

I just want to offer you my UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and you said you "were not looking for hugs" but I just want to offer it to you anyway.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

No one ever gets enough hugs.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta

69

My Husband found out about this site...

by cognac in

jw
friends

i told him that i have no intention of leaving.... he told me that i was like "a dog returning to its vomit"... .

Eliveleth

Honey,

Your personality sounds a lot like mine. When you know something, you gotta tell it. My DIL told me that the elders said I had a "Jezebelian spirit" and that is why my family was deceived and was out of the organization.

If you can.........Just back off. I know how hard this will be.

He is scared!!! This is something new and men esp. do not like change.

I am so sorry that you are going through all this, but the only way out..... is through.

I love you and am praying for you.

Love and hugs,

Gramma Velta