We're pretty snowed in here so I had to do a conference call for work from home before heading to the office. When I headed out I went to get her a coffee and a dozen long stem pink roses. This isn't anything new, I've gotten her flowers on Valentines day for years. (pink roses for valentines, red for anniversary) This was a bit different this morning.
She's never minded the flowers since at the core she felt that we were still witnesses. In light of last nights chat it was a bit different. She grabbed the coffee and hesitated a bit to take the flowers. Then she smiled, took the flowers and gave me a kiss.
It's a great Valentine's day so far.
Paralipomenon
JoinedPosts by Paralipomenon
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18
Update: Discussion with my wife last night
by Paralipomenon infor those not familiar, i faded from the organization many years ago and my wife hasn't been to any meetings or service in about 5-6 years either.
though she insists she's still a jw so we don't celebrate holidays and the children aren't allowed to participate in holiday activities at school.
i was content for many years to just let her do her own thing, but when the children started going to school i noticed how confusing it was for them.
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Paralipomenon
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18
Update: Discussion with my wife last night
by Paralipomenon infor those not familiar, i faded from the organization many years ago and my wife hasn't been to any meetings or service in about 5-6 years either.
though she insists she's still a jw so we don't celebrate holidays and the children aren't allowed to participate in holiday activities at school.
i was content for many years to just let her do her own thing, but when the children started going to school i noticed how confusing it was for them.
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Paralipomenon
For those not familiar, I faded from the organization many years ago and my wife hasn't been to any meetings or service in about 5-6 years either. Though she insists she's still a JW so we don't celebrate holidays and the children aren't allowed to participate in holiday activities at school.
I was content for many years to just let her do her own thing, but when the children started going to school I noticed how confusing it was for them. I brought it to her attention a couple months ago and it didn't go well. Essentially it came down to she felt that beliefs as a witness were more important than our marriage and for the first time ever we discussed getting a divorce.
Since that time neither of us has mentioned anything but she continued on to restrict the kid's activities at school.
Last night I sat down with my son to try to get his input.
I asked him what he thought about holidays at school and he mentioned that they were doing Valentines art. I asked him how that made him feel and he said that we didn't like it. I pressed a bit further asking him why he doesn't like it.
"Because it has hearts"
Are hearts bad? I asked.
"I don't know, but there's also kissing"
Is kissing bad?
He just sat there silent, obviously not sure what to say. Frankly I wasn't expecting that answer. The last thing I want is for our sons to grow up emotionally stunted about relationships.
I reaffirmed that hearts are okay and so is kissing and that mom and dad kiss all the time. He cracked a slight smile then escaped back to playing.
I went upstairs to raise the issue with my wife again. I asked her what she thought the children's view of the holidays were. She confessed that she hadn't really talked to them much so I filled her in on what our son told me. She was about as disturbed as I was.
Her comment was "Well I guess we'll have to teach them properly about why we don't celebrate the holidays"
I let that comment hang in the air for a bit before I just laid it out "but we don't have the same view on the holidays do we?"
This opened up a longer conversation about what to do with the children and we made some good progress. We were able to come to a compromise. The kids can now participate in holiday activities at school, but she doesn't want the holidays at home. So no Christmas lights, halloween decorations etc.
I can respect that. I may not believe what JW's believe, but I have no more right to decorate the house counter to her beliefs than she did telling the kids not to participate at school. So our home is going to be neutral ground but I can still take them out to parties and they can participate at school.
She called our oldest son upstairs to talk about Valentines day. She told him that hearts and kissing were okay and he looked at us and said "I know, I already talked with dad". So she asked what his class was planning for Valentines and he said that they were giving out candies. Everyone in the class made a "candy bag" but he didn't make one because it was in the form of a heart. He was told to play on the computer instead during craft time.
Well that broke my wife's heart. She asked him if she could help him make a bag and after a bit of back and forth we realized we didn't have the proper materials. He just grabbed a grocery bag and said that he'd take that. I'm not sure how well that will go over in school, but they're both happy. My wife still felt bad, she told him "Sorry honey, mommy will do better next year"
That was a bit interesting since she's willing to take an active role in their holiday activities, something that she said she wanted no part of just 20 minutes earlier.
After that, I thought I'd give her an update on what's going on in the organization, I informed her about the new watchtower announcement, she had no idea about the Awake cut back to monthly and explained blood fractions to her. Her reply, "wow, I'm really behind the times, sounds like I have alot of reading to do"
We talked a bit about the child molestation issue and the two witness rule. In talking she made the mental link that molesters would be attracted to the organization and I confirmed that the society has a database of 20,000 known pedophiles but they are fighting about turning it over to the government. I mentioned that now, alot of the children that were molested have grown up and it's all coming back at the society in the form of legal action. She was very annoyed and said that the society should just turn the deviants over to the authorities.
That was about it, she has some things she needs to get caught up on with the organization and I hope her research leads her to a site like this. She asked what the next big holiday coming up was and I said it was our son's birthday. She shrugged and said that's not much of a biggie. I told her that I'd most likely take him out with the neighbors to a restaurant and she just nodded and looked a bit distant. The look on her face didn't look like she was annoyed with the idea of her son celebrating his birthday, but that he was going to go have fun and that she's not a part of it.
I have a strong suspicion that she'll come along as well. She's a great wife and a wonderful mother, I think it will eat her up not being part of her kids enjoyment. After the birthday party when she sees that nobody got their head chopped off (hopefully) she might take a more active role in the holidays.
This is a major breakthrough for me. If she wants to continue thinking she's a Witness, I'm fine with that. But now I can properly protect my children and let them grow up normally. -
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The "Stupid Jokes" Thread
by Warlock inhere is my stupid joke: why did cinnimon roll?
because he saw apple turnover.. thank you, jim of tx for giving me the idea.. warlock .
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Paralipomenon
A little boy got on the bus, sat next to a man reading a book, and
noticed he had his collar on backwards. The little boy asked why he
wore his collar that way.
The man, who was a priest, said, " I am a Father."
The little boy replied, "My Daddy doesn't wear his collar like that."
The priest looked up from his book and answered "I am the Father of many."
The boy said, "My Dad has 4 boys, 4 girls and two grandchildren and
he doesn't wear his collar that way."
The priest, getting impatient, said, "I am the Father of hundreds"
and went back to reading his book.
The little boy sat quietly thinking for a while, then leaned over
and said, "Maybe you should wear your pants backwards instead of
your collar. -
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One Minute After You Die?
by Outaservice inwe have various types of people on this board, some believers in god, others atheists, some agnostics, and others still jw's at heart.. in your opinion, what do you believe happens to a person one minute after they die?
how about if they are good or bad?.
outaservice ( inquiring minds want to know) .
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Paralipomenon
The doctor yells "CLEAR!!"
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Is Atheism/Evolutionism Dangerous? Questions for Unbelievers
by Perry indoes the belief that there is no all-loving diety in which to be accountable to make it easier or harder to treat and judge others they way that you want to be treated and judged?.
since evolution supposes that life and ultimately man who is at the top of the chain got here through a process of the fittest dominating and killing off the weaker, and since most modern evolutionists in democracies no longer think that this is good to practice, how do you deal with the fact that you are a living contradiction of your own belief since you pronounce the same thing both good and bad?
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Paralipomenon
I would not say Atheism is dangerous. To really embrace Atheism you need to come to terms with the fact that you are mortal and at some point will die. To be able to accept that and continue to live requires alot of humility.
Contrast that with the Theist view that you don't really die. As a matter of fact, if you follow certain directions you will become immortal.
In my opinion, wars are generally started by Atheists, but they are fought by Theists. Warmongers would have an incredibly hard time motivating people to go and die for them if everyone really thought they would just cease to exist after they died.
Whoever said that Atheism is only dangerous to the faith of Theists, I completely agree. Atheists generally don't go around preaching about their beliefs, discuss it? Sure. Minster about it? To what end? You will have squandered your short life on something that has no personal meaning.
Theists preach and proselize because they think they are garnering brownie points in heaven, or they feel sorrow that their neighbor is going to die. It is fine to squander your life dedicated to a god that will reward you with immortality.
So no, I feel that Atheism breeds more "live and let live" philosophy and that religions, in a broad general sense, preach intolerance, guilt and fear mongering. -
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Cuckoo!
by Paralipomenon incuckooed 3 times.
cuckooed another 9 times.
said, "well, last night our clock cuckooed three times, then said, "oh .
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Paralipomenon
Why females should avoid a girls night out after they are married...
The other night I was invited out for a night with "the girls". I
told my husband that I would be home by midnight, "I promise!" Well,
the hours passed and the margaritas went down way too easy.
Around 3 a.m., a bit worse for wear, I headed for home.
Just as I got in the door, the cuckoo clock in the hall started up and
cuckooed 3 times. Quickly, realizing my husband would probably wake up, I
cuckooed another 9 times. I was really proud of myself for coming up
with such a quick-witted solution, in order to escape a possible
conflict with him. (Even when totally smashed...3 cuckoos plus 9
cuckoos totals 12 cuckoos = MIDNIGHT!)
The next morning my husband asked me what time I got in, and I
told him "Midnight". He didn't seem concerned at all. Whew! Got away with that one!
Then he said, "We need a new cuckoo clock." When I asked him why he
said, "Well, last night our clock cuckooed three times, then said, "Oh
shit.", cuckooed 4 more times, cleared its throat, cuckooed another 3
times, giggled, Cuckooed twice more, and then tripped over the coffee table and farted." -
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I just got this email from a girl in Russia - can any guys help her out?
by Crumpet inseriously this just got into my intray at work - bizarre:.
hello dear friend!.
my name is natalia.
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Paralipomenon
Dear Sir,
I sincerely write to seek your co-operation and trust
to enable my colleagues and I carry out an urgent
business opportunity in my department. I work with the
Union Bank of Nigeria PLC, currently I am the senior
manager of bills and exchange at the foreign
remittance department of my bank. I have an urgent and confidential
business proposal for you. On June 6, 1998, an Australian oil
consultant/contractor with via National Petroleum cooperation
(NNPC) Mr. Ali B. Ashraf
made a numbered time (fixed) deposit for twelve calenderer
month valued at US$51,000,000.00(fifty _one Million US Dollars) in my
branch. On maturity, I sent a routine notification tohis forwarded
address but got no reply after months we send a reminder and finally we
discovered from his contract employee (Nigeria National Petroleum Corporation)
that MR. Ali B. Ashrafdied from an automobile accident. On further
investigation, it was clear that he died without making a WILL.
All attempts by the Australian to trace his next of kin were fruitless.
I therefore made further investigation and discovered that Mr. Ali B. Ashraf did
not declare any next of kin or relations in all his official documents
including his deposit document in my bank. The total sum
US$51,000,000.00 is still in my bank as dormant acct.
No one will ever come forward to claim it.
According to Nigerian banking law, after five years, the money
will revert to the ownership of the Nigerian Government. If the account
owner is certified death and nobody comes forward to claim it. This is the
situation , and my proposal is that I am looking for aforeigner who will stand
in as the beneficiary/next of kin. This is simple. All you have to do is to
immediately send me the details of a bank account anywhere in the
world for me to arrange the proper money transfer document. The money will then
be transferred into the account for us to share in the ratio of 60% for
me 30% for you while the remaining 10% will be set aside for expenses
incurred with here and there. There is no risk involved. I am using my position
and connection in the bank here to do all the document work for the
transaction. We shall employ the services of an attorney to draft the
will and obtain all necessary documents and letter of administration in
yourfavor for the transfer. This transaction is risk free guaranteed. If
you are interested, , I will send to you the text of the application
that you will send to the Union Bank authority for an approval to
submit your claims.
Send your reply through mydirect and private email
address ( [email protected] ) indicate your direct
Fax and telephone numbers for effective communication
that this transaction needs. Do not reply through the
union bank email address because it belongs to the
senior staffs for public use.
Please note that you are not to appear in person, as
every thing regarding this project will be strictly on
documentations and every banking documents needed for
this transaction will be taken care of by my self.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Yours Faithfully
DR.IBRAHIM MARTIN -
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What would you have done? (saw a stranded motorist)
by AlmostAtheist inhey guys, .
i'm working from home today because of the snow.
but for a very good unexpected reason, i had to venture out for a few minutes.
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Paralipomenon
That's pretty much what I would have done.
Freaks and perverts have killed chivalry. -
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PREMARITAL SEX
by Cj inhello..i am catholic and my fiance was raised as a jw...we are very much in love..we planned on waiting till we were married before we made love but..we didn't.we will be married once we get past our differences.we will never be with anyone else ever again...his parents found out hat we had made love out of wedlock and now they despise me even more than they did before...anyone know how i should handle this situation?how do i convince them that idid not "corrupt" their son?
{who by the way is in his early thirties!!
}.hod do i get them to believe that it was really love and not lust?
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Paralipomenon
You said that your fiance was "raised a JW". The big question is, is he still a JW or has he left the organization?
If he has left they really shouldn't care one way or the other. Technically they should be shunning their son in order to preserve their faith. If he is still a member then if they are mad now I doubt anything would change their mind short of your conversion to the JW faith.
They really are a very narrow minded religion.
They most likely held out hope that their son would "see the error of his ways" that is, marrying you, and return before he got too involved. Now having premarital sex he has now "defiled" himself. They may likely assume that their son was tricked or seduced by you and not a willing participant since they raised him with "good wholesome values".
I am not writing this to condemn you or your actions, but to give insite into what is likely going through their minds. You will never match up to a "fine JW wife" in their eyes, any effort to attain their blessing or at very least tolerance will be futile, unless they start to doubt their own faith.
I don't envy your position, but these forums are a great place for advice and questions pertaining to JW's -
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Interesting family supper on the weekend
by Paralipomenon inwell last night our family was invited over to my brother's place for supper and my parents were invited as well.
my brother is an amazing cook and wasting that talent with a menial job, but that is another story, we get to benefit from his cooking.
so the conversation eventually comes around to the blood issue and the sextuplets, it has been so long since i have had a conversation with active dubs that this was very interesting to watch.
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Paralipomenon
Yeah, my dad would serve as an elder when asked but had no desire for the "power" and "prestige" that came with it. He was never very good at keeping quiet if he felt something wasn't right and due to his memory he could back up everything he had with either scripture or watchtower quote. He didn't go around picking fights, but he was very quick to end any discussions about doctrine.
He was appointed and deleted several times and it never phased him one way or the other. He did get in trouble for creating a social group of all the old timer elders that had been deleted. They all brewed their own wine and would hang out and socialize. They adopted special titles reflecting their "fall from grace" and jokingly greeted each other at the hall by the new title.
I think the younger elders complained to the CO and my dad was asked to refrain from using such titles anymore. It was really, really funny, but I can't name the title here as no doubt it could be used to easily identify him.
Several years later they appointed him a MS then an elder again.
The shunning of my sister is a bit different. She openly left the organization though she didn't formally disassociate herself. She hooked up with a "worldly" guy and moved in together. I'm married and my wife still professes to be an active JW. I'm just a fader so it's easier for them to reconcile association with me. He'll give me a couple verbal jabs every once in a while, but my mother is blissfully in denial.