is jesus your mediator?
were these men anointed christians?
... jesus christ, is not the mediator between jehovah god and all mankind.
And thus the hierarchy is entrenched!
Next the GB relegated the other 144,000 to subordinate roles by declaring that no matter what the Spirit whispered in their ears about policy and doctrine, if you were not on the Body at Brooklyn, ignore it and follow the direction coming from the GB.
How the anointed on the outside deals with Revelation 14:4 is beyond me: "They follow the Lamb where ever He goes."
If they follow men and not the Lamb, well, then they are not the anointed are they?
Maeve
i am thinking that maybe i missed this discussion or something.
now for years in the org i never ever paid attention to the article that says jesus is the mediator for the 144000 alone.
yesterday talking to my 70+ year old dad he got violently angry with me and threw his cane at me because he said i was a liar.. .
In spite of the special relationship the JW anointed claim with Jesus they don't all have the rarer relationship that the FDS at Bethel enjoy: It is in the literature that non-GB members of the anointed must follow the directives of the GB anointed. This is a real problem because Rev. 14:4 says that "They (the anointed) follow the Lamb where ever he goes."
This is a scripture that I read to the local elders when I was on the way out. I told them that I had to be true to my conscience but when I read them Rev. 14:4 I pointed to the wrong done when one's identity is tied to that integrity of following and you are prevented by the GB from doing so---
Silence from the brothers. I told them that if such was the case for the "anointed" then they weren't able to follow Jesus. So were they able to be truly the anointed?
Maeve
found this to be very interesting.. i had been runnning questions around in my head, why did abraham just up sticks and leave everything, just like that ?.
didn't make sense.
too many holes.
Thanks for keeping things fresh, lost. and for searching openly.
The gospel of Mary is an earlier account than many of the canonical gospel by men. It is reflexively referred to as "heretical". But so am I by the FDS.
Who is to say?
Any words written that a committee of churchmen save and edit are suspect in my opinion.If a book was dropped and hidden from them for a few centuries--all to the good. Like that story of hiding Abraham from the murderers.
Holy Spirit anyone?
1. christian puritan perfectionism in america (1620 to mid 1800's) failed to create heaven on earth or a shining city on a hill.
civil war dashed that delusion.. 2. the great awakening in america took up the slack only to be followed by advent speculations that the end would be immiment.. 3. william miller inspired a movement of adventists to break with their own local churches in anticipation of jesus' arrival.. 4. the work of the adventists seems to be warning as many people as possible before 1843. the splits in local churches caused lasting enmity.
a contrarian sense of "we'll show them we're right" is hardened into the character of newly minted apostates.. 5. the great disappointment leaves perhaps 100,000 2nd adventists stranded theologically between a no-show on jesus' part and a "we told you so!
Terry, I think that it is too simple to say that a desire to BE right underlies most JWs. Sometimes people want to DO what's right. They are not the same thing, really.
The hook they use on the public is the free home Bible study. And they taught us door-knockers to use various baits until a householder bites. Find out what "gets" to them---War, finances, racial strife, family life,--God? People wanting to study might not be just contrary misfits---some were seekers for other good reasons.
But on that doctrine stuff--now that would snag a person who wanted to BE right. The Trinity, Hellfire, 144,000 and who lives on earth. Things like that which had no practical value as far as loving your neighbor and loving God. Head stuff that required a lot of scripture to be picked and squeezed. A lot of that was crammed down our throats--and some loved it.
Whether we wanted to do right or be right, the epignosis they hit us with got to us all in the end---no matter what pulled us in to begin with. The FDS finally convinced us that THEY were the only ones that could channel accurate knowledge to us.
Pride could get us but humility could hold us just as well. We became afraid to think for ourselves.
I really enjoy your posts. They make me think. And that is really what keeps any of us from making the same mistake twice.
Maeve
my name is jack harper, tech49.
new here, been lurking for many months now.
a brief history:.
I love that you value your family so much.
What a different viewpoint from the way the FDS viewed family togetherness--all allegiance to the Slave would make the bond indestructable. Unless someone quit pledging allegiance to the Slave--then they are left out of the family.
I am glad you are all together and getting free. I hope all goes well!
Maeve
another thread on this board recalled to my mind the various thoughts and ideas in this organization that are still very prevelant among many.. .
for instance i already mentioned the late 70's to early 80's segregation in the kingdom halls, but in the 90's clear through to now for instance:.
at bethel in the mid 90's if you listened to or were found with rap music you were gone, no questions asked.
It is hard for me to think of Malawi and not wonder "Why.........?"
do i have to be literate to be a christian?.
if i only hear about jesus and simply call out and claim him as lord and savior could i be a christian?.
if i didn't trust men but trusted jesus and the spirit of god to guide me could i be a christian?.
Jesus' teachings were spread about in ways not so orderly as the WTS told us.
Even so today it is not so orderly. I have talked to an illiterate preacher--he learned what he knew word of mouth and by looking at an old family copy of Fox's Book of Martyrs with all those lurid torture scenes. He had views of women that were pretty patriarchal and primitive.
I met an old woman who earned her traveling money to rural preaching invites by skinning and selling the hides of road-killed animals (this was 30 years back)who was as gentle and non-doctrinal as could be. And many others.
Lively interaction there. I would dread an institutionalizing of any of it. I am afraid of worshipping the bible because organized religion created its canon, edited and preserved it and to govern others' faith.
Claims of "supreme literacy" (epignosis for us ex-JWs) can be a weapon used against faith in many cases-- the WTS uses its literature to destroy our dependence on good sense and simple love of God and man.
It makes me question the ministry Jesus really had here on earth. I try not to be afraid of following where this leads. My mistrust of the bible is a mistrust of men --not Jesus.
For many this is nonsense, I know.
my brother's stepson, wesley reier, accidentally overdosed on drugs.
he is considered brain dead.
his biological parents have decided to put him in a nursing home, where he will remain for the rest of his natural life.
One of my sons nearly died of a drug overdose a while back. Hospitalized and made it--went to prison for drugs later. Addictions are heartbreaking. He is clean at this time.....
I pray now for those involved. I think the helps we ask for need answers deeper than we can know. I believe that love is prayer. I pray that you all love one another well.
do i have to be literate to be a christian?.
if i only hear about jesus and simply call out and claim him as lord and savior could i be a christian?.
if i didn't trust men but trusted jesus and the spirit of god to guide me could i be a christian?.
hozer, I often wonder if the bible is the bible--if you know what I mean.
Thanks, Phizzy. That's a thought I cling to.
Ding--I read that a former illiterate slave, Sojourner Truth, refused to let other literate (white) people read the bible to her because they always wanted to tell her what certain parts meant. She reasoned that since they had enslaved others they could not understand the gospel. She would let little children read it to her--they didn't editorialize for her. But you might imagine she had a unique take on Christianity. I like it.
Room 215--Even with literacy training available at local synagogues (boys only?) literacy couldn't be high among a lot of the workig class. Literacy among women? Hah! Rare, I think. I am a woman. So I figure Jesus didn't expect them to have to read. But he had women disciples.
http://www.nwaonline.net/281216684861365.bsp .
"the morning news" (arkansas news).
religious leaders to describe traditions of peace .
Here is a history of a behind-scenes activities of JWN working over a JW who stepped out of line with WTS policy. That JW was me. Later, when I was df'd, I came to this site and discovered that members here were active in the correspondence that made me face the consequences of being in a high control cult.
I am bumping this thread because the slap-down of JWs who were editing Wikipedia reminded me of my own slap-down 10 years ago---and my later (7 years!) discovery that JWN had jumped in and stirred the pot on the matter.
It is painful to look back and see how hard I struggled to maintain sanity in the cult. You are buffeted all about for trying to do what only seems simple and true. What a storm my ignorance and innocence got me into!
I still see Dick Bennett who opened that discussion on Peace Traditions of the area churches. He knows now I am free of the soul-crushing pressure of the Organization.
Maeve Courteau
