Posts by erandir

17

How many EX-JWS?

by Tatiana in

jw
friends

i read somewhere on the pbs site that someone (can't remember who) said there could be millions of ex-jws.

is there any possible way to confirm just how many of us there are?

even a ballpark guess?

erandir

We'll need categories:

DF'd

DA'd

Fading

Faded

Infiltrated-and-wreaking-havoc-but-not-a-JW-in-the-heart

Studied, but decided to run like hell

Studied, unbaptised publisher, but fled the borg

Raised in truth--never baptised

Any that I'm missing here?

12

Sci-fi fans or not? Speak Klingon? Or are you a face hugger?

by Crumpet in

jw
friends

it occurred to me during my meanderings through london last night that invariably boyfriends describe me in the context of science fiction.

i like geeky guys a lot so that is to be expected.

but moving on to the dubious similarities - the first called me a a face hugger - nice, unless you have watched aliens in which case you will know what a face hugger is.

I've been called Spock a lot because of my way of coldly analyzing a situation and also because I surprise people a lot with being able to retain a lot of useless knowledge in my head and giving it out when it is needed.

I so badly want to go to a sci-fi convention...haven't yet because I don't know any big fans that would go to any (don't know enough geeks, I guess). I love star wars and star trek. I've read more books on both series more than I can count. I think I know Tolkien (not quite sci-fi...but still geeky) better than the bible and the wt literature. :) How many times have I read the bible through? Once...How many times have I read the Lord of the Rings? 7 times. The Silmarrilion? 3 times. Anything I could find with Tolkien's name on it...at least once. There are at least 25 books in my personal library of Star Trek and Star Wars, and I've read them at least two times. One of them is the tech manual for Star Trek.

Speak Klingon? Maybe one day...I can say "to be or not to be" in Klingon. But first things first...I am trying to speak Spanish fluently, and I feel that mixing another language in there might hurt it...especially a fictional one.

I see myself as Luke...struggling with the dark side...seeing the good in others...even in Emperor Palpatine-like elders who would rather bake you like a potato with their lightning bolts than treat you lovingly...but ultimately, I want to be a good guy (and learn how to light saber duel...cuz it's just cool to wave around a neon-colored blade).

45

Why do people hide on this site?

by Adolfius in

jw
friends

something i've noticed when reading the various threads on this site, is that so many people seem to be afraid.

their scared of being disfellowshipped, scared of being shunned, scared of not being accepted by the congregation, scared that people may find out they don't believe anymore, scared if anyone was to find out they use this site.

there is advice for people on how to avoid being disfellowshipped, if they may have "said too much" about their thoughts, or how to fade without being noticed.. i don't understand this.

erandir

here's my two-cents.

A lot of it is that the organization does manage to have control over its people. I don't know exactly how this is, but I still feel it and fight it from time to time. They have a way of turning your family against you...in my case, my wife. I know she is strong-minded and won't let them do it, but still...if she continues going to meetings, some of it will rub off on her. She's there because a lot of what is taught is better to her than any other church she knows and because a lot of the friends are really good people (albeit misguided, imo), and she doesn't want to be cut off from the enjoyable socialization that she has. If I were to DA myself or be DF'ed, they would shun both of us because they felt they had to...or at the least, just me. But her social life would still go down the tube. She's talked of committing suicide if anything like that happens. She's going through depression right now...I coincidentally am coming out of mine. (I'm convinced a lot of it had to do with being a witness.) She's 1500 miles from her family, so the only friends and "family" she has is here. And to take that away would be cruel on my part...hence the hiding. She doesn't have much in common with my family, who live close-by. And she has maybe two or three worldly friends from work that she plays tennis with or goes to lunch with once in a blue moon. She keeps her distance largely because that's what a good witness should do. I'm sure she'd do fine if she decided to leave the witnesses, but she doesn't see it yet.

In summary, it's so complicated. Whether the society makes it that way to keep its subjects in line or not, I cannot tell you because I don't really know. But for a non-confrontational person like myself who has a socialite spouse who still believes and doesn't want to go from dozens of friends down to 2 overnight and who isn't ready to question her beliefs...hiding is a good option. It's temporary until we can grow some balls and learn how to deal with it all, I know, but it's good enough for now. It would be inconsiderate on my part to make a decision that would negatively affect the happiness of another person, especially my wife.

Another reason I just thought of right now is that it is kind of a procrastination of the inevitable. Maybe it is also a test of the local elders...to see how bent on DF'ing they are, or if they are loving and understanding. So far, I've been left alone, and it's been a long time since I last attended anything...even after skipping the memorial this year...and the special assembly day.

16

Where do you think you would be now?

by brinjen in

just a thought, wondering where does everyone think they would be right now if they hadn't found the truth?

i mean the real truth, not the wts.

would you be single?

erandir

I'll play along with this thought game:

I wasn't doing too bad for a new recruit. I was aux pioneering once or twice a year and getting at least 10 hours in each month. I was learning to overcome objections at the door and to use a scripture and leave on a positive note. Also, I was being used (taken advantage of) a lot at the hall and was good at following through on my assignments in the school. I was just starting to make the break-through from relying heavily on notes to being able to just use an outline and speak in my own words. I was offered to do impromtu talks (the last-minute talks when the brother assigned didn't show up). I was considered to be a good reader at the book study especially at pronouncing just like the society wanted (regardless of whether it was correct or not) all those old names and places. And I was taking the lead in field service and giving the prayers at the book study and field service meetings. They used me 4 years in a row to pass the "emblems" in the front row and up to the stage during memorials. I think I would have been a m.s. by now and probably aux pioneering all the time...or another path could likely have been moving to a spanish congregation and doing the same there...ms and aux pioneer.

But this is a silly question to me because the real truth is so blatantly obvious that eventually it would have reached me. I know I overlooked it for years, but it eventually got through to me...combined with my own observations.

32

What is your favorite DUB catch phrases (sayings,) ?

by PinTail in

these are just a few: how about this one, brothers the time left is reduced", do not take liberties with the sisters", charley calls", brothers and sister do not mark on the sides of your bibles", do you have secret sins", do not be saving seats", you will not be used if you wear a beard," parents are your children setting with you", are you buying out the oppertune time for your selfs", only use the motels the society wants you to use", and on and on like cults do.

erandir

does this count? when they spontaneously burst into "illustration" to try to prove a point. A lot of the time, the analogy is inappropriate or misapplied. It's really funny when this happens. Like a little kid trying to imitate his parent. Oh, crap! I just made an illustration. Little kid=dub publisher, parent=WT "master" writers. (Oy vey...i was so brainwashed...i still think like a dub...get out of my head!!!)

my least favorite one is the analogy to explain the "ransom" from the Draw Close to Jehovah book, chapter 14:

To illustrate: Imagine that you live in a town where most of the residents are employed at a large factory. You and your neighbors are well paid for your labors and lead comfortable lives. That is, until the day the factory closes its doors. The reason? The factory manager turned corrupt, forcing the business into bankruptcy. Suddenly out of work, you and your neighbors are unable to pay the bills. Marriage mates, children, and creditors suffer because of that one man’s corruption. Is there a way out? Yes! A wealthy benefactor decides to intervene. He appreciates the value of the company. He also feels for its many employees and their families. So he arranges to pay off the company’s debt and reopen the factory. The cancellation of that one debt brings relief to the many employees and their families and to the creditors. Similarly, the cancellation of Adam’s debt benefits untold millions.

39

want to know what's weird?

by ninja in

we all know there is no mention of cats in the bible...not one....but another thing that's weird is that there is no reference to any people in the old testament taking their kids down to the beach to make sandcastles and stuff...why?

erandir

Every reference to dogs in the Bible is in a negative connotation. Using the JW birthday logic, can one assume that a true worshipper of Jehovah should not own a dog?

undercover, I love this! I'm going to use it to show how silly the ban on birthdays is to my wife. She appreciates my sense of humor; maybe this will work where past reasonings have failed.

The bible dosen't mention anything about cars either. Mmmm, wonder where that leaves the dubs when they go out in field service?

There is something in the bible about putting an end to those ruining the earth. "... and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.'--Rev. 11:18. Hmmm...car exhaust...pointless driving to and from return visits to find they aren't home instead of calling or mailing a letter...driving big-a$$ suvs out in field service for 2 hours at 5 miles per gallon.... I kind of half-liked the mormon version of field service whenever I saw it in comparison to our version: just 2 guys in the whole congregation at a time...riding bicycles.

Oh, and btw, I am still trying to stop thinking about wtf a sculpture of a hemerroid would actually look like? I mean...is it just the swollen blood vessel on a stand...or like a sculpture of the whole thing, cheeks and all...kind of in a bent over posture like what the proctologist sees during an exam.... Ewww...sorry for the bad imagery.

63

Need a name for a love bird.

by purplesofa in

jw
friends

i am terrible at names for animals.

i had a dog once and named him pup.

our female cats name is kitty.. i had a parrotlet once and never named it.. just said hey bird or birdie!.

erandir

We had two lorries named Cookie and Aggie. Aggie was white with blue markings, and Cookie was yellow with green markings.

11

Owning Cats discouraged by JWs? Was that ever anything taught in the Truth?

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

i came across a sight a while back where an overseer posted a topic on cats having pagan and worship origins, and giving scriptural reason why "true christians" should avoid owning cats.. this was a site from someone not in america.. any experiences on this at all?

i had a witness say this was obviously posted by the "evil slave", and was not a witness, cause that's never been taught by the fds.. what can you tell me?.

erandir

Can anyone find a copy of it and post the link? I, for one, would love to read it.

Thanks,

Erandir

91

New Stupid Assembly Rules

by WTWizard in

i have heard on this discussion board numerous rules that apply to upcoming a$$emblies.

some are designed to stop people from meeting the opposite sex; others, to make sure everyone is always ready to recruit new members into the scam.

i heard that some km inserts have been urging those whose congregation has cleaning assignments to sit in the section that they are assigned to clean.

erandir

OTWO wrote:

Thank you erandir. The OKM had all that. Great. Now we know.
How are JW's supposed to keep track of all this? Yeah, I know.
There are convention reminders every year. If the Borg doesn't
print the reason every year, it shouldn't matter- just be obedient

How to keep track of all this? Attend the meetings diligently, of course! The brother handling the part about the convention reminders will help you keep track of it all. Even if it isn't printed every year, there is a prompt in the KM during the off year to review with the congregation what was printed the year before, etc. Simply put, you cannot escape the constant reminders...you have no excuse for misbehaving at the assemblies...myu ha ha ha. Resistance is futile.

91

New Stupid Assembly Rules

by WTWizard in

i have heard on this discussion board numerous rules that apply to upcoming a$$emblies.

some are designed to stop people from meeting the opposite sex; others, to make sure everyone is always ready to recruit new members into the scam.

i heard that some km inserts have been urging those whose congregation has cleaning assignments to sit in the section that they are assigned to clean.

erandir

Straight from the KM May 1999, pages 3-6 article entitled: "1999 'God's Prophetic Word' District Conventions":

16

In the interests of time and simplicity, the Society has asked us to bring our own lunches to the convention each day. Most brothers have followed this direction and have found that after being dismissed for the noon break, they can sit down with their families and eat what they have brought along for the day. Many have said that the opportunity to relax during the noon break and spend additional time with their brothers and sisters has been enjoyable. This requires purchasing foodstuffs and beverages ahead of time and packing them in a small container or cooler that can fit under the seat. We request that all in attendance follow this instruction. Lately, building managers and food vendors in the facilities where our conventions are held have observed some brothers leaving the auditorium to purchase food from street vendors and fast-food establishments nearby. Some of the food vendors in the convention facilities being used are now demanding that they be allowed to open their food stands and serve the delegates attending our conventions. If this were permitted, many worldly people would be mixing in company with us during the day. Also, congestion and long lines around the concession stands would return, disturbing the relaxed atmosphere of our conventions. Therefore, we ask that each one endeavor to bring his own food and beverage to the convention each day. Interested ones accompanying you to the convention should also bring their own food. Glass containers and alcoholic beverages are not permitted in the convention facilities.

---

I remember sitting through this part (and each part over the next few years talking about convention behaviour) thinking how easy it would be to leave during lunch and go to a vendor anyway. At our venue, no one would know because it is several blocks from any restaurants. Well, only the other dubbies that broke the rule would know, anyway.

Anyway, the above quote is the original source of the rule on bringing lunch. It is reiterated again and again in different km's over the years.

km 4/03 pg 3:

4

It is requested that all bring a lunch rather than leave the convention site to obtain food during the noon break. Your cooperation with this arrangement contributes to a peaceful atmosphere and allows more time for association with fellow believers. (Ps. 133:1-3) Please bear in mind that glass containers and alcoholic beverages are not permitted in the convention facilities.

km 4/05 pg 4-5:

7

It is requested that we bring a lunch rather than leave the convention site to obtain food during the noon break. It was commendable that most delegates carefully followed this direction at last year’s convention. How good it would be if all would do so this year! (Heb. 13:17) This arrangement provides a fine opportunity to enjoy upbuilding fellowship with our brothers and contributes to an atmosphere of unity and peace that brings honor to Jehovah.—Ps. 133:1.

Heh, this is the most research into WT literature that I've done in a year, I think.