Posts by metaspy

23

Poll:What is the "average" age of people's baptism in the org?

by megsmomma in

jw
friends

i was 14....and that seems pretty common for those that were in it young....... .

how in the world is a 14 year old ready to commit themselves to anything life altering?.

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

AuldSoul,
Yes I see where you are going with the influenced - Jehovah's decision to allow Job to be tested was influenced (since he probably would not have put Job through such a test without Satan's prompting).

Point 3 is very pertinent to the three questions I asked you. You will immediately see why. If you believe their standards should be used to determine at least whether they are the organization God is using, do they measure up on point #3, or not?
No. WBTS does not measure up in "basing all its teachings and standards on the Bible". It falls short on many occasions. If you use their list, then there isn't an earthly organization.

Jesus did not tell Satan to "get lost". At any point. Maybe you are thinking of what he said to Peter?
Agapa37 already mentioned Matt 4:10 - "Go away Satan!", which was what I was thinking of when I wrote that. I should have quoted it the first time. Sorry.

I think before you decide you would not be disfellowshipped you might want to ask a local elder. Perhaps you could frame it in the form of a hypothetical question, not related to Jesus.
I might do that. But considering I have very little faith in what elders have to say, I will probably just do my own research.

I thank you for the intriguing discussion,
Metaspy

27

If you could turn back time, how far would you crank the hands of time?

by avidbiblereader in

how far in your life would you turn back time and why?

what would you hope to change?.

abr.

metaspy

May 1, 2001 - it was the start of bad things in my life. if I could go back to then...

24

What Part of No Tresspassing Do They Not Understand?

by fxdwg97 in

jw
friends

we had a knock on our door this morning, as we were having breakfast.

i opened the door thinking it was the neighbor, because today is his wife's suprise birthday party.

i was suprised to see two young men carrying bookbags.

metaspy

It is not standard to ignore no trespassing signs.
WBTS specifically tells us not to do houses with No Tresspassing signs.

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

metaspy

First off, let me apologize for the double post.
I finished my other reply, then realized that AuldSoul had asked further questions.
I felt the first response was crowded enough. Sorry.
----------------------------------

Before I start let's take a look at the status of most of the JWs who come here - fading. Metaspy included.
I defended against your other question because you used an illogical argument. There are not going to be straight forward scriptures for these questions. Plus, I am not one to make up something to defend an idea I do not believe whole-heartedly. (sorry agapa37 if you thought you would see metaspy come in for round 3 swinging)

(1) Where can I find the Scriptures that teach that the faithful and discreet slave is a "class" of people that comprises the conduit for God's spirit to direct his "spirit-directed organization" and has the resonsibility of interpreting and revealing "new light" to the "other sheep," who could not possibly get this light from any other source?
I will admit that the scriptures do not specify what the faithful and discrete slave is comprised of. Nor do the scriptures describe what the "food at the proper time" would be.

(2) Where can I find the Scriptures that teach that elders can convene private trials that cannot be recorded and judge ones undeserving of God's favor on behalf of and instead of the congregation, the details of which judgments and trials will never be made known to the congregation?
none

(3) Where can I find the Scriptures that teach that regular meeting attendance, Bible study, regularity in publishing the good news, a specific prayer of dedication to God, and undergoing a question and answer test are required for Christian baptism?
While not specifically for baptism, the Bible does encourage: reading God's word(joshua 1:8), getting together with other christians (Heb. 10:24,25), praying on a regular basis(1 Thes. 5:17), preaching and teaching(Matt 28:19,20). However, you already knew that. You were asking why the WTS makes rules as to who can get baptised and what hoops they have to jump through, without scriptural proof.
Hence the true answer is - none.

What is your conclusion?
This one is tougher. I have seen some great things happen to people because they changed their lives to conform to the lifestyle of JWs. I helped study (I covered for the other brother) with one man who never would have even looked at the Bible if it weren't for JWs studying with him.
On the other hand, I have seen the pain that comes from the elder's personal decisions in matters that did not concern them. I have been personally hurt by elders/COs rules. The points you brought out too - hypocrisy, rule making (much like pharasees), judging.

it is hard to make a straight forward decision, so many factors...
I do not condemn your decision, for someday it may become my own.

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

metaspy

----Dark Angle:----

if satan was considered disfellowshipped or an apostate in the adams time, why was he allowed to have a discussion with Jehovah in jobs time?
My question in response would be: why was Satan (a rebel, slanderer of Jehovah, and slayer of mankind) not killed immediately following his rebellion?
For the simple reason that Jehovah was proving a point. Satan made a claim against Job's integrity - no doubt all angels that were present could hear the discussion too. If Jehovah ignored Satan, or kicked him out, what would the angels think? It was better to resolve the situation, instead of ignoring it.

in principle, why was he allowed to have a discussion and influenced Jehovah ( as audsoul pointed out)?
the reason for the allowance of discussion is answered above. The influence of Jehovah did not happen, as I tried to mention before.
James 1:17 says of God - "with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow" - the point I am making is: Jehovah was not changed by the discussion with Satan. His purpose, personality, power, all remained the same. Look again at the definition of influence
Main Entry: influence
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -enced; -enc·ing
1 : to affect or alter by indirect or intangible means : SWAY
2 : to have an effect on the condition or development of : MODIFY So now I ask, was Jehovah altered in any way? Was his condition effected? Was he modified by the discussion? If the answer is yes to any of these, please point out the scripture that tells us how he was altered/modified.

----AuldSoul----

Are Jehovah's Witnesses doctrinally allowed to answer an apostate's questions with Scriptures?
Good question! I have no idea what the official standing is. Most of what I have found in the WTS literature about apostates says not to take in apostate ideas through reading, and listening. But I did happen across a sentence that may apply to your question... W86 3/15 "Do not Quickly be shaken from your reason" - "If the one spreading apostate teachings cannot be restored to spiritual health by loving but firm application of the balm of God’s Word, amputation of this member (disfellowshipping) may be the only alternative for the protection of other members of the body."

If not, are they really encouraged to follow the example of Jesus?
A fine point also. The above mentioned sentence seems to allude to some sort of scripture sharing.

Also, if Satan did not "influence" (according to Merriam-Webster) Jehovah, why did Jehovah permit Satan to do to Job what he had not formerly permitted Satan to do to Job?
See above. I focus more on the point Jehovah was not changed from the person He was before the discussion. Jehovah permitting Satan to do more things does not change Jehovah.

Your response is intriguing in that it admits that church dogma holds Satan to be the first apostate and seems to regard the discussion (see Merriam-Webster) between Satan and Jesus as a good thing.
Indeed, it was a good thing. Jesus was tested to the full. Thereby, Satan could not later say, "things would have been different if I could have done this or that." A fully tested perfect man equalled out the sin of Adam.

----Agapa37----

I see the way you CHANGED the subject after she thouroughly undisputably answered your questuons
who is she? If you were referring to me, I am a male. ;-D

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

metaspy

(1) According to the Bible, was Satan an apostate from at least the Garden of Eden onward? (the meaning of "apostate"; Genesis 3)
Yes Satan could be considered the first apostate, as he was the first to cause someone to apostasize from true worship

(2) Was Satan, a known apostate, allowed in the assembly of God's angels? (Job 1-3)
Yes Satan was allowed in Heaven. He was not forcibly removed until Jesus became king of God's kingdom. Until then, Jehovah gave him the freedom to go where he pleased.

(3) Did Jesus talk with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus answered his temptations

(4) Did Jesus use Scriptures when talking with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus did answer Satan with Scriptures

(5) Did Jehovah both talk with and allow himself to be influenced by Satan? (Job 1-3)

yes and no. I do not see where Jehovah is being influenced by Satan. (Look up influence with Miriam-Webster: alter, modify - neither of which did Jehovah do when talking with Satan) He answers Satan's taunts, but does not change in anyway.

(6) Would the interaction between Jesus and Satan described in Matthew 4 be permissable for Jehovah's Witnesses? (Matthew 4)
Jehovah's witnesses probably shouldn't be talking to Satan. :)

That, indisputably, being the case: Why is it okay for Jesus to talk with Satan but not okay for my family to talk with me?
I dispute your assumption that Jesus would be disfellowshipped for talking with Satan. Situations would be taken into account. If I were on a mountain and an apostate came and tempted me 3 times and all I responded with was scripture (then told him to get lost), I would not be disfellowshipped.
You keep referring to Jesus temptations from Satan to a fullfledged conversation. According to scripture, it was 3 temptations.
Satan: "make bread out of this rock", Jesus: "man lives on utterances from God too".
Satan: "jump, God will save you", Jesus: "don't put God to the test".
Satan: "worship me!", Jesus: "worship only God! Leave me, now."

Not much of an indepth conversation. I highly doubt this to be a disfellowshipping offense.
Edit:ooops, I guess I didn't finish answering your question.
Since Jesus didn't have a real in-depth conversation with Satan, neither should your family have one with you.

13

Am I right here, or just Sarcastic...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

so my mom might be having an operation shortly, so i asked her about the blood card.

i said that since i was the closest relative that would at least understand her beliefs and follow them (no other relative in the area would allow her to not take blood) i said that i understood there was a new blood card with the various incraments and particles of blood that will be allowed.

she said there was and she had the card filled out, which i took a look at it and everything was checked off.

metaspy

You are partially right.
Each of those fractions are from blood. However, they are not the MAIN 4: Red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma.
So if you take fractions and mix with water, you dont get blood.

Someone gave the example here of the pieces to pizza. I prefer to use a different example: Apple pie.
If we couldnt have apple pie (as found in 1 Metaspy 4:13 - "thou shalt obstain from apple pie")
You might stay away from the main ingredients - Apples, Crust
Could we have cinnamon? It is a fraction of the apple pie, not a main part

just the ramblings of Metaspy

11

Door to Door Dangers

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

i understand people's growing reluctance to answer their doors anymore with the crime rate soaring etc.

jw's must be a nuisance to many because of this.. however, as a jw did you ever find yourself in a dangerous situation because of calling on someone who was dangerous?

do you feel, or did you feel you would have had divine protection in such cases?

metaspy

DOGS = Danger! I have had several run-ins with dogs.
1)there was a happy dog wagging tail, I walked through an archway in the fence (to get to the only door on the house). dog turned into evil dog - hair standing on end, growling, ready to remove most of my vital organs. Thankfully those in the car got his attention and I made it to the car safely.

2)Friend was approaching house when a woman came out. she was on the phone and just told him to leave the mags at the bottom of the stairway to the porch. As he was bending down to leave the magazines, this dog zipped over (quietly) and jumped up to take a hunk out of his bottom. the woman of the house shouted for the dog. The dog looked over at the woman and head-butted my friend's bottom. (that's how close the dog was to actually biting him!)

22

Advice for single brothers and sisters at the DC

by Bumble Bee in

jw
friends

i found this on another db and thought it was so true!

i recognized someone from almost every group listed here.

anybody you recognize or do you have another group to add to the list?.

metaspy

The "I'm Too Fine, So I Know You Want Me" Ones - Ones who approach you, but automatically think that you want them.

This was a brother in my old congregation.
Unfortunately, this was due to his parents encouragement of this idea.
I find it ironic since he is lanky, not good looking, stuck up, and an all around (pardon the expression) jackass.