Posts by RAF

44

Faith in God and the Church - Part 1 of 2

by Amazing in

jw
friends

palmer: i don't know.

i mean, for me... i need proof.. palmer: proof.

ellie: yes, very much.. palmer: prove it.. [source: http://www.turning-pages.com/contact/machine.htm].

RAF

Wow ... yeah I like the way you put it ! Thanks

wihtout shunning a good Church

I would say without shunning anything truly related to God. Church is actually the translation of assembly (assembly of those who believe and act and react with God's spirit as God sons - they don't have to be together it is spiritual) the corps of Christ by itselt (as Christ always have a perfect representation) is nothing tangible even like any human assembly its every perfect act (all together) which built the corps little by little (it's consistance) conceptually talking.

39

How Did/Would You Propose? :)

by GetBusyLiving in

jw
friends

so i'm going to propose to my girlfriend this weekend!

what do you ladies think would be totally romantic?

how did you dudes propose?

RAF

I’m sorry, maybe saying that you have to say something is giving you a job! Here is an example without talking that much … It’s all in the eye and the passion you will put in it that’s it … (it’s all about the feelings at the moment)

This is only an example you'll find your way :

You can just take her hand and look into her eyes in a way she can feel you are going to say something very important, that your life depends on it … (You don’t need words for that)

You also can : Breath in and out, kisses her once, twice, 3 times with more and more passion (and or playing with her fingers it’s like : before you get there you need to feel a bit more confident)

And just add something like : you mean so much to me – I want so much from you – I’m more than ready to give you my life, will you marry me ?

If you are sincere everything will come out just right for her (I guess she knows you by now).

Best wishes !!!

31

What message would you like to say to anyone studying with the JW's?

by JH in

jw
friends

i'd say, beware, once you'll be baptized they won't treat you the same way.

they will expect a lot from you, and you'll never be free again to say what you think about the religon or even think for yourself.

they will control your life completely.

RAF

I would say

Check Matthew 24:15
(any religion is not the solution abomination is taking place there)

Matthew 25:34-46
If you want to worship God or feel great about yourself worship your fellow human being
that’s all what count – respect for others lives and charity any kind (the same as you want from others)

Forget about the fear to die (we will have to die anyway in a way or another as human being)
Forget about judgment (we are not allowed just because we are not even able to know everything even about ourselves)
Forget about your ego (each one of us is nothing without the others)

Now any religion who do not teach or lead to this is not coherent with the Gospel.

25

WHY ?

by RAF in

when it comes to believe its all about what is believable to you.

so this is not a question for believers in god, i mean if you are a believers (you think that there is a god) or an agnostic (you think that there might be something very unexplainable yet) the one i want to get into it by giving there reasons are atheists.. it feels comfortable to just follow what scientists are saying (it is supportive because they are able to explain some science) but by now about evolution its only about concept related to science to explain a possibility, but there is no scientific proof in facts.. why is it more believable to you that we are the result of a big bang which would actually comes out of something very tiny full of development codes?

i guess from that, that it would still mean that there is something bigger than just that (like believers or agnostic do think).. so why are you atheist?

RAF

Hi Tetra,

From the beginning I’m not arguing as if I’ve got the truth … Why, because no proof (any proof in this matter would be only what any would like to accept as it, because of there own experience, nothing more, nothing less in being right or wrong regarding to whatever leaded them to believe).

Here you are telling that you have the truth and that I have to grow in this matter because science is showing us … Ooops but what exactly? … Science is showing you what you want to believe (again no proof) and like Narkissos said one do no exclude the other one.

And just like the other once you are finally saying let’s say it straight: “I can’t believe in God anymore” but I can believe in scientist/science (but it still does not exclude creator/programmer – that’s only your statement from what you believe).

Now read yourself back : you’re Why
i am an atheist because of the way the universe *is*, based on what i have learned about it. it appears exactly to me like a universe with no YHVH.
See … You accepted what you’ve learned (but no proof) why, because it appears like this way it is possible to existe without having a creator/God.

if a universe were to spring into existence without a conscious creator/designer, this is exactly what it would look like in my estimation, not opinion.
That’s an estimation based on your opinion (what is believable to you)

one sunny saturday morning i no longer required the belief. it shed off me like old skin. i didn't even force it. it just happened after i had learned a certain amount more about the universe than i ever did as a witness. science and philosophy both did it for me. they blew my mind wide open.
See … It’s not me who is talking for you here

It’s funny how you are talking to me as if you knew better (I’m ok with that … I can be worse in doing it myself). But I too one day in just reconsidering what the bible is saying exactly to me (and not what any religion wants me to believe) I’ve realised that our story and the reason of our situation is not to read the way it’s written word for word in the bible … just like you said for your own new belief since you left the borg … I didn’t force myself to believe whatever … the message just became very clear to me.

When too people do not have same opinion on something it’s all about the details … my way to check is to put the detail awayto get the essence/concept first and then the details makes sense to me or not (or have to be totally excluded)

As an example on why do we need to forget about the details to not sink into too much information.

For instance why are there poor people on this world (remember that poor does not mean lazy and lets get God out the way to talk about this as an example on why we need to forget about the details ) some might say because of politic and economy (too much details to get the point) conceptually it’s a question of state of mind (politic) and organisation (economy) I mean the same things without the systems organized by egoists and elected by an overwhelming majority … So what is the problem exactly : Egoism … so now you can get into the subject and anything which look like egoist is the reason of the sicknessif you stay on the details you will only be able to realised what are the symptoms (of the sickness – and working on the symptoms won’t lead to eradicate the sickness). Conclusion poverty is the result of injustice related to egoïsme … It’s obvious for everyone … it become less and less obvious if you get into too much details.

15

Honestly-Did you ever......

by avidbiblereader in

read the entire bible all the way through, whether as a witness, after you left or did it take leaving to actually get the time to read it?.

abr.

RAF

Nark : I ... had to unlearn, lol

that's the big part of it (it's the big problem for my sister - she can't just forget about it) ... it was easier for me because I never really accepted the JW teaching.

25

WHY ?

by RAF in

when it comes to believe its all about what is believable to you.

so this is not a question for believers in god, i mean if you are a believers (you think that there is a god) or an agnostic (you think that there might be something very unexplainable yet) the one i want to get into it by giving there reasons are atheists.. it feels comfortable to just follow what scientists are saying (it is supportive because they are able to explain some science) but by now about evolution its only about concept related to science to explain a possibility, but there is no scientific proof in facts.. why is it more believable to you that we are the result of a big bang which would actually comes out of something very tiny full of development codes?

i guess from that, that it would still mean that there is something bigger than just that (like believers or agnostic do think).. so why are you atheist?

RAF

Hi Heathen !

Thanks

Right a theorie is not an evidence ! just an hypothese

So I guess A-kid is missing the point about the difference in between theorie and evidence.

39

How Did/Would You Propose? :)

by GetBusyLiving in

jw
friends

so i'm going to propose to my girlfriend this weekend!

what do you ladies think would be totally romantic?

how did you dudes propose?

RAF

I've realised that what is really moving is not the proposal itself. what is moving is how a guy tells to a girl how much he loves her and why he wants to spend the rest of his life with her ... eddited to add : just before the proposal

that's the most romantic part of it all and that's when I'm crying (on movies)

25

WHY ?

by RAF in

when it comes to believe its all about what is believable to you.

so this is not a question for believers in god, i mean if you are a believers (you think that there is a god) or an agnostic (you think that there might be something very unexplainable yet) the one i want to get into it by giving there reasons are atheists.. it feels comfortable to just follow what scientists are saying (it is supportive because they are able to explain some science) but by now about evolution its only about concept related to science to explain a possibility, but there is no scientific proof in facts.. why is it more believable to you that we are the result of a big bang which would actually comes out of something very tiny full of development codes?

i guess from that, that it would still mean that there is something bigger than just that (like believers or agnostic do think).. so why are you atheist?

RAF

Kid-A

not through the prism of supersitious, religious fear and ignorance

why do you assume that I've got religious fear (that's what's wrong in fact about the bible).

25

WHY ?

by RAF in

when it comes to believe its all about what is believable to you.

so this is not a question for believers in god, i mean if you are a believers (you think that there is a god) or an agnostic (you think that there might be something very unexplainable yet) the one i want to get into it by giving there reasons are atheists.. it feels comfortable to just follow what scientists are saying (it is supportive because they are able to explain some science) but by now about evolution its only about concept related to science to explain a possibility, but there is no scientific proof in facts.. why is it more believable to you that we are the result of a big bang which would actually comes out of something very tiny full of development codes?

i guess from that, that it would still mean that there is something bigger than just that (like believers or agnostic do think).. so why are you atheist?

RAF

ok kid-A

Can't you see how far you are going ... ?
if you take everything from the start there is too much missing links (otherwise scientists would have prove it clearly) it is not because a majority believe that it is believable (I guess you can agree with that at least).

I've said TV show because here every year we have a few shows (TV documentary with debates) about it (scientists do explain at what point they are). So I guess if there were any specific evidence to prove evolution totally right I would know about it.

25

WHY ?

by RAF in

when it comes to believe its all about what is believable to you.

so this is not a question for believers in god, i mean if you are a believers (you think that there is a god) or an agnostic (you think that there might be something very unexplainable yet) the one i want to get into it by giving there reasons are atheists.. it feels comfortable to just follow what scientists are saying (it is supportive because they are able to explain some science) but by now about evolution its only about concept related to science to explain a possibility, but there is no scientific proof in facts.. why is it more believable to you that we are the result of a big bang which would actually comes out of something very tiny full of development codes?

i guess from that, that it would still mean that there is something bigger than just that (like believers or agnostic do think).. so why are you atheist?

RAF

Salut Narkissos !

(ça serait cool de se revoir à l'occasion si tu viens sur Paris)
J'ai toujours un grand plaisir à te lire.

but it's all about the species ... and the virus as an exemple do not stand just because it is a categorie of species by itself, viruses stays viruses. so any confirmation about it possible extansion for one mollecule to create the universes and all what it includes from a big bang Still needs proof. And yes anyway as you said evolution and theism ae not mutually exclusive (if evolution is programmed then there is still a programmer).

The reason why I've raised the question "WHY" was to know from what Atheists feel atheist. And you actually fall into the same catégorie - you are Atheist or partly atheist because nothing leads you to be a believer (way before the the fact that you can believe in evolution).

When you said : "I can appreciate its value but also its limitations."that is when you give me an argument when you join this statement with everything you said from when you talked about language / culture / politic ... but culture is probably the terme which talks about it all.

Because When you say things (any ancient message) have to be translated cautiously it's true for the bible ... but again not word for word each writter (to be in contexte when they wrote, to suite their contemporay fellows understanding wrote things the way they have to at this time) but by then things can't be change along the time for a book like the bible. And then each translator also put a bit of their culture and own understanding in there (The translation will be related to there understanding). What is left as really understandable is the concept. That's why from the start it is said that Jesus would talk with parables (images).

And that's why the prophetie whish says that alot will be fooled is just a consequence of reading it word for word and allow people to be fooled by any who wants to mislead on purpose.

Oddly it's the evidence of the what is wrong which lead to what is right conceptally about what is said in the bible.

Stevenyc

I understand what you mean ...

Nic

It just isn't possible to choose your own beliefs

Either you are going too far on this ... Either it means that you only can believe what is beliable to you. So ...