Posts by IsaacJS2

7

My JW sister is visiting.............should I tell her????

by vitty in

dont you just hate it when you write a post and it disappears ?.

my sister is visiting me for a week, she knows i dont go to meeting but has never asked me about it, she would find shunning really hard so i dont think she wants to confront me although she did ask my non witness sister but she didnt tell her anything.. so if she does ask, i was wondering the best way to deal with it.

i was thing of saying .

IsaacJS2

I would probably try to feel out her thoughts on the situation, then decide on what to say--and more important, how much to say. I would be as tight lipped as possible if it's clear she just wants to convert you. The more you say, the more difficult it will be. This is the surest way of avoiding a heated confrontation and minimizing hurt feelings.

When she pops the question, you could tactfully ask her what she thinks about your inactivity. You may have to ask several questions to draw her out. This will help you to see where she's coming from, and you could follow up with other comments that could spin the conversation in your favor. If she's clearly determined to convert you, then you could start telling her you'd rather avoid the subject because it will ruin your time together. Cut it as short as you can without getting hostile and be wary of any attempts to draw you into a discussion. Otherwise, someone will say something hurtful and your week together could be a long one. Be as kind as you can in resisting her attempts to convert you, and don't let her make you feel guilty or react if she threatens you with Armageddon. If things get awkward, keep going back to your reasons for avoiding this conversation in the first place. You may have to remind her that she's the one he started this if she gets upset with you, and site it as another reason to avoid this subject. Note that if she gets insistent, she is being very disrespectful of you as a person and you have a right to discourage any conversion impulse she may have. If she tells you she has to do this anyway because Jehovah wants her to, explain to her that this is not an acceptable excuse. She should take responsibility for her own actions and not blame Jehovah. She is the one making this hard, not you.

Bear in mind that she knows you aren't going to meetings, so she obviously knows something is wrong. She will at least have a suspicion that you have doubts about "The Truth." I don't know your sister, but the standard motive for questioning an inactive JW is to bring them back into the fold. The more information you give her, the more you are inviting her to dig in and try to get you to come back. The goal is to avoid ruining your visit, not to convince her you are right or to make her understand (unless she's a very liberal Witness). If she's a diehard Witness, you will only be wasting your time. Sad, but true.

IsaacJ

19

A little Fun. If celebrities made up the Governing Body, who'd it be??

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

so who's your celebrity line up as the members of the governing body, and for what reason?

IsaacJS2

Fair warning: you are probably taking your life in your hands if you check these links. They are not very p.c. (politically correct). Visit at your own risk.

Celebrity Members of the Governing Body

Pat Robertson http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

Jerry Fallwell http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell

Satan http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Satan

Carrot Top http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Carrot_Top

Anne Coulter http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Anne_Coulter

Bill O'Reilly http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Bill_O%27Reilly

Lord Voldemort http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Lord_Voldemort

Megatron (from the Decepticons) http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Megatron

Geraldo Rivera http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Geraldo_Rivera

Eric Cartman http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Eric_Theodore_Cartman

Lion-O (or maybe Tygra) http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Thundercats#Lion-O

Darth Vader http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader

Um...sorry about this. Please don't hit or yell.

IsaacJ

34

For those who've settled on 'no contact' with their JW families . . .

by Madame Quixote in

for whatever reason.

do you question it sometimes and think you should try to "reach out" to them again?

i was this morning and then came across the thread above and was reminded why i need to stay away.. but, still, i read threads of people who have managed somehow, despite being d'f'ed or faded or d'aed and think i might try to be more understanding, supportive, reach out or something.. despite all the problems growing up in a fairly dysfunctional family, i still feel a deep attachment to them and hope against hope that they might come to their senses (if they ever had any to begin with) and get help and leave the cult of jehobo; and we might reconcile,etc., etc., blah blah blah dream dream dream.. i deeply wish for them all freedom and happiness and healing and feel so helpless to free them of their bonds and yet see so much possibility for it, if only they could be reached somehow.

IsaacJS2

I am not close to my family for other reasons. My parents are not JWs. The worst relationship is with my father.

To give an example of why, he came up to my mobile home after I first moved out on my own (about 12 years ago) and tried to rip my front door off its hinges with a crowbar. He's kinda famous for pulling this sort of stunt. I caught him and confronted him at the door. He said I hadn't called him in 3 weeks and he thought I must be sick, so he'd better break in and help me. Yeah right. I stared him down until he walked away. Note that he demanded I call him every single day of every single week during the move (I refused) and that he would leave 10 or 20 messages on my answering machine every few days if I didn't do whatever he wanted. The messages were not pleasant. Most of them were "to be continued" because the message timed out, so he'd call back and pick up from where he left off. Some of his diatribes would run on for 3 or more calls before he was done.

The crowbar thing was a stunt, of course. Meant to intimidate, to control. That's what he does. He knows its wrong, but he can't stop himself. This only makes it even worse because he has to justify his insane behavior by overcompensating with outrageous displays of hurt feelings. He showed up several times where I work and began to rant and rave, for instance. My father can be charming, so many of his friends probably think I'm dirt for avoiding him 99% of the time. But he can't help himself when I'm actually around. He went on and on about how I could "have it all" if only I wanted to race/tinker with hotrods the way he does. Problem is, I'm not too interested in that sort of thing. I'm a computer nerd. So what? But it's important that I do what he wants, not the other way around. He often demanded that I take an interest in things he wanted to do, then lost it when I complied. (I was only a kid, so I couldn't tell him no yet) For him to come to me about spending time together would have put me in charge, so he tried to reverse it in some twisted way. Can't have that. He needs to know that he can make me crawl, and I refuse to indulge him. That drives him bonkers.

Has he ever tried to connect with me by doing something I want or meeting me halfway? Nope, it's got to be me who defers to him. But he will tell any lie to me, about me, whatever--to get whatever he wants. He isn't afraid to use blackmail or to turn other people against me. I have never asked him for any favors, even when I literally had no money to buy food because I had lost my job. If I had, he would have thrown up a line of hurdles for me to jump through. "Do this, then I'll help. Okay, now do this, and maybe I'll help. No, not yet. Maybe this time..." Somehow, the help just never comes. To be honest, I wouldn't feel right about crawling to him like this anyway. I think it would be messed up for me to only go to him when I need something, so I don't bother. He's been like this since I was a kid. He basically makes my life too miserable to even contemplate. I do not feel guilty about avoiding him. He knows I have good reasons for doing this, deep down I think.

I have other relatives that have caused problems, like a crazy ex-stepfather and one whole side of my family that blames me for my mother divorcing him. I have pretty much cut all of them off. The only one I remain close to is my mother. Guess I'm a Momma's boy, but truth is she's all I have in the way of family. Sad, but I have no regrets about avoiding them. It would be nice to have a family once in a while, but I think this is part of how I got into the WT to begin with--for a time, the WT was my surrogate family. I have never had a traditional sense of family in the way others speak of.

As you can imagine, between my family and the WT, I tend to resent it when someone tries to get me to do something in a sneaky way or to play with my head.

Crap. Sorry about the long post.

IsaacJ

27

True or False: Watchtower Male Stereotype

by YoursChelbie in

jw
friends

i always used to cringe when the watchtower "family" and "youth" books would stereotype men and women into two mutually exclusive categories: "men think while women feel.

"one trait is not better than the other they are just different...," i recall the books went on to say in so many words.

i'm well aware both men and women have excelled in science, etc.

IsaacJS2

I think men and women often communicate very differently, and this leads to all kinds of misunderstandings and misinterpretations. One is that men aren't emotional. I think that men often (but not always) express themselves differently, and people don't equate our behavior as one being "emotional" at the time the way they do with women.

We know that their are differences in the structure of our brains--women have more white brain matter, men have more grey, for instance. There's bound to be some difference in how we think. It might be interesting if we knew more about how much was biological and how much was a product of our environment. But I think it's too easy to say one is more--emotional, logical, smarter, or anything like that--than the other. I have certainly known men who are very sensitive and women who are insensitive. If there is a real difference here, it isn't an all encompassing one.

IsaacJ

16

Recommendations About Leaving The Truth

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

recommendations about leaving the truth leaving the organization regardless of the circumstances can be difficult.

so much is interwoven besides leaving a religion or philosophy behind.

recently, i had the good fortune of bringing my best friend out of the .

IsaacJS2

Personally, I agree with dedpoet. I seriously doubt that we can change the mind of a Witness unless they've already begun the process. Getting pushing or excited at the first sign of doubt could easily run them off, so a sense of reasonableness is probably important when the opportunity arrives. You don't want to pounce on them. Preaching the Society's evils when they don't want to hear them will probably just push them away, and that'll be one less WT-free influence in their lives. To help, you have to be there when opportunity knocks.

I would probably make it known that I have doubts so that it would occur to doubting Witnesses that I could be confided in. But after that, I suspect you just have to wait.

IsaacJ

25

How did the 144,000 know they had "the feeling?"

by themonster123 in

jw
friends

what was the deal w. the 144,000?

what feeling is it that they had??

i mean, seriously-it baffles me.

IsaacJS2

This is one of my gripes about WT theology. Don't know if this helps, but I was told that the anointed are more drawn to scriptures about the "heavenly hope" instead of the "earthly hope." I think this is extremely weak. So weak as to be laughable. I was also told that the anointed should be people who made some extraordinary sacrifices in their lives for the WT. I have no idea if this really holds true or not.

Maybe someone else knows of some anointed who didn't really seem to have done anything all that special? For those of us out to criticize this point, it could prove useful to information.

Far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is this: you're an anointed because 1) you say you are, and 2) the Society decides to let you in the club.

IsaacJ

11

Ever heard of Uncyclopedia?

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

it's a humorous rip-off of wikipedia.

unlike conservapedia, it's supposed to be funny.

not politically correct, however.

IsaacJS2

Some other highly insensitive and politically incorrect subjects at the Uncyclopedia. You have been warned...so please don't kill me:

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Hulk_Hogan

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Bugs_Bunny

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Carrot_Top

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates

This one should only be used after you've logged in with your own id. Trust me: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/You

IsaacJ

29

What "Type" of "Apostate" Are You? Conservative, Liberal or In The Center?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some are very much out there in trying to bring the watchtower down.

some will go to extreme measures to see to it that everyone knows how wrong the witnesses are.

others are less demonstrative and more liberal as to their approach and of course there are certain ones that are pretty much in the middle...... where are you??

IsaacJS2

Like some of the others, I don't consider myself an apostate. I guess I am technically one, though; atheism is enough to get you "busted" for apostasy, and I will stand up for myself if challenged. My patience with JWs who feel the need to convert me back is growing thinner and thinner. But I don't go out of my way to convert JWs or to fight the WT. They mind their business, I'll mind mine.

IsaacJ

40

How Much Influence Did The Watchtower Have In Destroying Your Faith In God?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

how much influence did the watchtower have in destroying your faith in god?personally, i do not believe that a corrupt organization should destroy the belief .

or concept of a designer, god or creator.

in addition, because an organization .

IsaacJS2

Notaness,

I'm not really sure I understand your post. I'm tempted to interpret it as a kind of wise cracking, I.D. proponent response to my post? I'm not sure what I said to earn that sort of reply, but I wasn't trying to get anyone riled up. You post doesn't quite make sense to me since you didn't characterize the view of most atheists/secularists/scientists very accurately or fairly. It does sound a lot like the way our views are often described by hard core fundamentalists, however.

I learned on other boards not to dig in too much with debating people on issues like this if you want to keep many friends in most forums. I'm here to make friends, not start debates. If you want to debate these issues with people who disagree, your objections so far have all been heard by atheists many times before. You needn't search very hard to find numerous replies from our side online if you are interested in hearing them. I'm not trying to offend you, but you are unlikely to win any converts this way.

No slams against religion or religious believers was intended by my post. I may have failed to convey my ideas correctly or inoffensively (hardly the first time that I messed that up) but I meant well. I'm not so sure that you can say the same about your response. But maybe I misunderstood it. Still, I'm sorry if you took my post personally. I was just answering a question posed by this thread. I didn't mean to imply that believers are dumb or anything else insulting. I simply disagree with them. No biggy.

No hard feelings, I hope. I will leave you guys to continue the discussion on your own.

IsaacJ

40

How Much Influence Did The Watchtower Have In Destroying Your Faith In God?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

how much influence did the watchtower have in destroying your faith in god?personally, i do not believe that a corrupt organization should destroy the belief .

or concept of a designer, god or creator.

in addition, because an organization .

IsaacJS2

Sorry Wanderer, but I'm afraid I can't support your belief about JWD atheists either. The WTS did not destroy my faith in God, though it seems like that's the first conclusion many people jump to when they hear my story. There are more than 1500 denominations of Christianity in the U.S. alone, not to mention other religions. I could have converted to any one that I wanted. Like someone else said, my brain bears the responsibility for my atheism. I don't mean that I'm smarter than anyone else, only that I thought about it and atheism remains my ultimate conclusion.

Everything I know says that the only sort of God that makes much sense (to me at least) is a deistic, "hands off" kind of God. I have no reason to believe in such a being, but it seems to be the least inconsistent with the evidence as I understand it. The Christian God, along with all the others I've heard of, doesn't jive with the evidence from my point of view. I'm not even talking about scientific evidence yet. When I heap that on top of my philosophical/observational doubts, there's just no contest. For me, secularism wins.

Note that I'm just explaining the gist of views here. I don't mean to pick on those who do believe.

I honestly have no idea how the Society could destroy someone's faith in the manner you describe. As you said, they are hardly the best of examples, nor are they the only example. All ex-Witnesses should be aware of these points, so letting the Society destroy their faith doesn't make a lot of sense. I can see how someone might feel that they've had their fill of religion immediately after they've left the Society, but that's not atheism. I can even see how they'd blame God if they chose to hold him accountable for their mistreatments. But blaming God isn't the same as doubting his existence. It's quite the opposite in fact. I can't lay blame on something I don't believe exists in the first place.

If you wish to understand more about our real reasons, you might want to do some research. There's plenty of stuff available online. I like Austin Cline's site at About.com as it seems to be the most thorough. His articles can get very in-depth, though. You may not feel like spending that much time on it. But checking out something like that could dispell any myths you might have about atheists or atheism. Most people seem to get it wrong and leap to all the wrong conclusions without trying to find out more, or they try and then don't believe what we tell them any way.

Oh well. What ya gonna do?

Best wishes,

IsaacJ