Posts by IsaacJS2

1

Austin Cline Article: Freedom As Submission

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

here is a small sample worth quoting: .

some people simply feel a need to be told what to do, where to do it, what to eat, what to value, and how to live; even those who don't really feel such a need, like jacobs, can apparently experience a strong attraction to it once they try it out.

weighing alternatives and making choices take time, effort, and responsibility.

IsaacJS2

Here is a small sample worth quoting:

Some people simply feel a need to be told what to do, where to do it, what to eat, what to value, and how to live; even those who don't really feel such a need, like Jacobs, can apparently experience a strong attraction to it once they try it out. Weighing alternatives and making choices take time, effort, and responsibility. Simply following orders takes less time, less effort, and can give on the feeling that they are absolved of any responsibility for the outcome.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/11/17/freedom-as-submission-democracy-as-obedience-how-christianity-subverts-liberty.htm

I thought some of you might be interested in this Austin Cline article. The whole thing is pretty long, but I think it has definite application to JWs and it's well thought out. It might give some of us a new angle to ponder regarding our JW relatives and friends. Note that Austin is supposedly speaking in generalities about Christianity here, but in fact, he is primarily talking about authoritarian religions and why they are appealing.

I admit that the full title is offensive to Christians:Freedom as Submission; Democracy as Obedience: How Christianity Subverts Liberty. But the first half of the article doesn't read that way, at least to me. (I haven't read the whole thing yet, though) This is an atheist site, and I think Austin is trying to draw in more secular readers with a bold and shocking title. He does acknowledge a separation between authoritarian Christianity and more liberal/democratic believers near the beginning of the article. Anyway, Christians should consider themselves warned just in case. I don't think atheists or most Christians would be offended by this one. Apologies if I overlooked anything in that regard.

IsaacJ

4

Any good work from home ideas?

by avishai in

jw
friends

i'm a single stay @ home dad on disability, any ideas?

IsaacJS2

Have you tried something like LiveOps? It's basically a call center job, but they send calls to your home. You can work whenever you want.

It's not ideal, but it can make for a fair part time job, which is better than nothing. Might be worth a look.

www.liveops.com

IsaacJ

You Should Really Give Up On Your Family Member Rejoining The WT When...

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

this is from my web site, but i thought i'd just post it here for everybody:.

humor for ex-jehovah's witnesses:.

you should really give up on your friend or family member rejoining the watchtower society when.... 11/16/07.

IsaacJS2

This is from my web site, but I thought I'd just post it here for everybody:

Humor For Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses:
You Should Really Give Up On Your Friend Or Family Member Rejoining The Watchtower Society When...
11/16/07

Note: as if written for one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

1. ...you just won't shut up about it. Ever.
2. ...he uses all the Watchtower and Awake! magazines you've left him over the years and makes a huge bonfire...in your front yard.
3. ...he just can't stop laughing at the latest magazines you left him and starts shouting, "Can you believe this horse sh*t?" as he wipes the tears from his eyes.
4. ...you find out he's starring in that latest porno flick. (Hey! Why are you renting porn anyway?!?)
5. ...he leaves bear traps around his front yard with little signs that say "in case of Watchtower" in front of them.
6. ...he asks you for the name of a country where Jehovah's Witnesses haven't reached because he's thinking of moving there. "Pronto."
7. ...you see an image of Charles Taze Russell taped to his dart board.
8. ...he shows up at your place dressed as an ordained priest.
9. ...the policeman asks you to stop talking to him about "The Truth" so he'll let go of the hostages.
10. ...he tells you he isn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses any more and asks you to stop pestering him about it. (You guys seem to have a really hard time understanding this one)

Isaac J. Harris

New XJW article at my site

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

just thought i'd mention that i finally wrote up a new article.

i'd have a lot more of them by now if not for the migraines getting in the way of things.

anyway, this is about handling a witness favorite: "the society has gotten us both through the tough times.

IsaacJS2

Just thought I'd mention that I finally wrote up a new article. I'd have a lot more of them by now if not for the migraines getting in the way of things. Anyway, this is about handling a Witness favorite: "The Society Has Gotten Us Both Through The Tough Times. You Owe Them Your Loyalty!" That's one I've heard mentioned a lot in the forums.

I think this one comes across a little stronger than some of my other articles. Let me know if you think it's too strong. Also, if there are any other advice articles you'd like to see, let me know.

Hope these are useful to some of you. The index for all the XJW articles are here. The main page, as always, is here.

IsaacJ

7

Are Some Witnesses Becoming Scary?

by metatron in

jw
friends

perhaps many of you are out of touch with large numbers of witnesses.

i think it is fair to say that.

much of the 'fire' has gone out of them, in recent years.

IsaacJS2

I'd consider that a pretty standard response to the situation. Psychologically, people tend to dig in even deeper when their beliefs are challenged. The human mind seems to have trouble letting go of something, especially if that something is based on a major decision - like, "The WTS has the True Religion and I'm dedicating the rest of my life to it!" Studies have actually been done on this sort of behavior. This is why I don't think protests and such are a good idea.

Of course, there were plenty of fanatical, Uber-Witnesses back in the 90s when I was a Witness, too. So I wouldn't get too excited. I know a lot of people have been posting stuff about how the WTS is going down any day now, but I seriously doubt it. They'll bounce back. Even if they don't, somebody will jump in and create a new corporation claiming to be a continuation of "The Truth" almost overnight. No one will care about legal or corporate technicalities. It'll just be Jehovah's way of testing the faithful.

Shame really.

IsaacJ

8

Watch out for ......RELATIVES!

by Gill in

relatives can be a problem.

at least in the eyes of the wt society, relatives are a threat to the mind control tactics they employ on their slaves.. the thing is, relatives may well love their relations who have unfortunately become trapped in the watchtower lies and so may try to reason, help, rescue and perhaps even get cross when trying to release their loved ones who continue to be ensnared in the watchtower trap!.

i noticed in the last two watchtowers that relatives are mentioned specifically and wondered how far the road of isolationism of their members the watchtower is now willing to go in warning their members against those who may try to help them.. december 15th watchtower, page 22 para 8:.

IsaacJS2

One thing - just to throw it out there - but I've observed that people who truly believe in something (a cause, a religion, or whatever) will tend to dig in deeper whenever someone presses them to change their views. Relatives who try to "rescue" WT slaves from the organization can unwittingly push them even deeper into it. These situations are very delicate, but many people make the mistake of bulldozing into them, unfortunately. The WT is the kind of thing you have to cut out with a scalpel, not an axe.

If there's ever any hope of getting an earnest Bible study to part ways with the Society it has to be very early on. Once the foundation is laid, any serious pressure to get them to leave can actually backfire. I think that's one of the reasons why Witnesses put this idea into our heads early on. I was frequently told things like, "Remember, Satan will try to discourage you from studying. He may even use your family against you." I think the Society uses situations like these to help it keep new people and that's why it frames the issue in this way. It's a bit of a gamble for them, but it can actually serve their purposes and encourage a student to accelerate their progression toward baptism. Especially if the family member gets too crazy about the student's affiliation with the Society. And many do, which is exactly what the Society wants.

This is one of the reasons why I don't think that protests against the Society and things like that are a good idea.

Just my 2 cents...

IsaacJ

31

Top Ten Lame Excuses Why The Watchtower Society Predictions Never Came True

by Homerovah the Almighty in

top ten lame excuses why the watchtower society predictions never came true.

1. c. t. russell measured the great pyramid with his hands, found to be inaccurate.

2. judge rutherford was dyslexic, year 1925 should have read 5291 instead.

IsaacJS2

Did someone mention a top ten list????? Sweet. I hope some of these don't suck.

Top Ten Lame Excuses Why The Watchtower Society Predictions Never Came True

1. Jehovah was too busy thumb wrestling with Zeus to notice the date had passed. (Curse you Zeus!!!) Now we're all screwed.

2. We're already in the new system. But Satan built this race of machines that would lock all of our minds in a computer simulation called "The Matrix" to fool us. Jesus doesn't really know computers, but they've got an angel with a "Computers for Dummies" book workin' on it, so any day now...

3. Our magical fax machine to heaven is broken, so we had to make something up at the last minute. Our bad. Say, do you have any fairy toner we could borrow??? We need it really bad. (Keebler Elves too busy to lone them any of theirs)

4. Predictions? We never made any predictions. Oh, and day is now night and night is now day. As you were.

5. We were high.

6. Maybe they meant 1914 in heaven!?

7. Funny story. See, when Jesus makes predictions ... well ... he talks with sort of a lisp. Ya know?

8. Fine. Make up your own d*mn religion then!!

9. We were testing your intelligence. I mean, your resolve to serve Jehovah. Hey! Don't moon me over there! ...

10. Okay, hang on a sec. ::shake shake shake:: The black cube thingy says "Answer unclear, try again later."

IsaacJ

31

how is the WT a "literature selling scam"?

by inkling in

i have heard several people refer to the society as publishing company in the business.

of selling books and magazines.. i just don't see how this view can be valid considering that i almost never see.

any "voluntary contributions" come in from the door-to-door work.

IsaacJS2

I've seen several people mention that profits from the literature have been falling off. I was always told - even as a JW - that their profits had actually gone up considerably since they were forced to switch over to the donation arrangement. (According to my local Elders and the literature servant at any rate) Has this changed or what's up with that?

If the Witnesses aren't giving as much, then it would also stand to reason that profits would fall for the lit since they're the ones paying for nearly all of it one way or another.

IsaacJ

10

Is the Governing Body "Spirit Directed" or "Inspired" ??? See Difference..

by Lady Liberty in

hello all, happy sunday to you!!.

just read quandrys post about the 2007 annual meeting notes.

this comment made during that meeting just got under my skin, so i decided to start a thread to show the dictionarys definition of both of the words.

IsaacJS2

Bear in mind that I'm an atheist here, so I' don't believe in any of these people or things. But it seems to me that if Jesus - the most powerful being in all of everything this side of Jehovah - is really in charge of the organization and is somehow guiding it, then why has he allowed himself to be reduced to an impotent shadow who must subtly nudge a bunch of guys in the right direction whenever a decision is to be made? I mean, what's stopping him from taking human form and popping down once a week to call the old boys in for a board meeting? He can't possibly be that shy.

If Jesus or Jehovah or whoever is running the show behind the scenes, why allow their all important, life-saving organization vacillate from one policy to another year after year? Wouldn't they want their special organization to stand out with its integrity, wisdom, and uncanny knowledge of the one and only truth? Yet the Society regularly gets its facts wrong about all sorts of things. Things that anyone with a library card or a computer could find out in a matter of minutes.

It just seems kinda sad. This doesn't even make sense if you take their claims at face value. Yet it seems quite simple.

IsaacJ

9

Could the FS be the vehicle that creates cognitive dissonance, and.......

by AK - Jeff in

propels it into acceptance of the odd and somewhat unconvincing arguments and doctrines of jehovah's witnesses?.

in the classic paper by festinger and carlsmith on cd, published in 1959, it states;.

let us consider a person who privately holds opinion "x" but has, as a result of pressure brought to bear on him publicly stated that he believes "not x.".

IsaacJS2

I think that FS is a big part of the equation. The world view that the Society is putting out there is actually pretty fragile, so it needs constant maintenance. The meetings are a big part of it. I was always told how vital it is to have regular attendance back in the 90s. That's mostly about positive feedback and reinforcement. The repetition, making you parrot the Society's answers to questions, shaking hands with other drones...

Field servie is a good way to "firm up" those WT views with mostly negative feedback. Most people you meet at the door get mad or aren't interested. (Though it's getting harder to meet anyone at all) After the conditioning at the meetings, you view this with sadness and pity. You shake your head at them, knowing you did all you could to get the message across. If only they would listen. Shame really. Then you move on, glad you aren't like them: glad, in effect, that you are one of JWs and not some worldly person.

In fact, you're actually standing up for what you believe just by going out there because everyone knows who you are. You can't hide when you're going door to door, walking the streets and knocking on doors with a bag of magazines in your hands. Even people staring at you from their cars makes you withdraw from those nasty, dirty old worldly people and huddle in more tightly with other good and wholesome WT slaves. Man, it sure feels good being right and doing what's right. Holidays have a similar effect for converts like me. Refusing to celebrate them forces you to out yourself to your family and take a stand with the Society. It distances you from every non-Witness in your family, separating you from them and reality.

It's all just part of the system they've put into motion to get you and keep you.

IsaacJ