IsaacJS2

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Posts by IsaacJS2

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  1

  Why Some Jehovah's Witnesses Are Abusive Toward Ex-Witnesses - Part 1

  by IsaacJS2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm working on a short series of articles that might be of interest to some of you.

  i tried to write this so that someone could print it off and show it to a loved one who's been harping on them about the wts in case they can't muster the courage to talk to them about it.. http://www.atheistgeeknews.com/xjw11whytheyattack.shtml.

  this is only part one.

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  IsaacJS2

  I'm working on a short series of articles that might be of interest to some of you. I tried to write this so that someone could print it off and show it to a loved one who's been harping on them about the WTS in case they can't muster the courage to talk to them about it.

  http://www.atheistgeeknews.com/XJW11whytheyattack.shtml

  This is only part one. As it stands right now, I also plan to do at least two more. It depends on the length of the articles, as I want them to be of high quality but not unbearably long. I plan to create a more "printer friendly" version (without the columns and all that) for people who might want to print it out, and may string all the articles together on that one.

  Note that these will be greatly improved versions of articles I've written before on my site.

  Please let me know what you think, either here or on my contact page. I'll gladly use any suggestions that improve the article further.

  Thanks, and I hope someone finds these useful.

  IsaacJ
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  12

  To those who've been DFed...

  by IsaacJS2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering if anyone ever tried to find a mature way to defy their supposed authority to judge you this way and what sort of reactions you got.

  i haven't been dfed, but it could certainly happen some day.. i'm not planning to meekly put up with the preaching next time witnesses try it on me, which has made me wonder about this.

  it seems a bit immature to go right up to them and say "hiya!

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  IsaacJS2

  If you're curious, here's a short post about the experience I sited with my in-law. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/127653/2259443/post.ashx#2259443 I know there's a better one somewhere that goes into more detail, but I can't find it right now.

  IsaacJ
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  12

  To those who've been DFed...

  by IsaacJS2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering if anyone ever tried to find a mature way to defy their supposed authority to judge you this way and what sort of reactions you got.

  i haven't been dfed, but it could certainly happen some day.. i'm not planning to meekly put up with the preaching next time witnesses try it on me, which has made me wonder about this.

  it seems a bit immature to go right up to them and say "hiya!

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  IsaacJS2

  Lots of interesting responses - just what I was hoping for. For those who took exception to my using the word authority, don't read too much into it. I was actually asking what others had done to show the Witnesses that they don't have any authority over you. I already know that they only have the authority I allow them to have over me. But if this ever happened, I'd want to make sure they knew I wasn't bothered by their little pronouncements in a mature way.

  I've thought about this from time to time over the last year or so, ever since I openly admitted I was an atheist to one of them. Technically, that is apostasy according to the Insight Books. I also have no faith in the GB, which the Insight Books also label apostasy. So I guess I could have been DFed.

  I found the whole conversation with my aunt in-law pretty offensive, but held back quite a bit while she took it upon herself to try and straighten me out. (%@&$#%&@!!!!!) That made me decide that I wouldn't tip toe around these issues any more and that I would stand up for myself 100% next time. But I've wondered what I would have done if my aunt in-law had tattled on me and I'd been DFed for apostasy.

  Anyway, this gives me some view points to think about. Thanks for that. More views are still welcome, so post away. Also, if anyone wants to comment on defying Judicial Committees, that would right up the same alley. I have a few thoughts on that too and wouldn't mind hearing what others think.

  IsaacJ
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  12

  To those who've been DFed...

  by IsaacJS2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering if anyone ever tried to find a mature way to defy their supposed authority to judge you this way and what sort of reactions you got.

  i haven't been dfed, but it could certainly happen some day.. i'm not planning to meekly put up with the preaching next time witnesses try it on me, which has made me wonder about this.

  it seems a bit immature to go right up to them and say "hiya!

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  IsaacJS2

  I was just wondering if anyone ever tried to find a mature way to defy their supposed authority to judge you this way and what sort of reactions you got. I haven't been DFed, but it could certainly happen some day.

  I'm not planning to meekly put up with the preaching next time Witnesses try it on me, which has made me wonder about this. It seems a bit immature to go right up to them and say "Hiya!" just to be mean - I'd prefer to take the high road - but it occurs to me that I don't want them to think I feel bad about it or that I accept their authority to pass judgment over me either. DFing is - to me at least - passive aggressive bullying. It's like they're saying, "See? We can judge you and make it stick. Stings, don't it? Yeah, sucks to be you."

  Has anyone ever found a good way to stand up to them on this one?

  IsaacJ
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  18

  Are you a happy ex-JW?

  by Burger Time in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking it might be a good idea to come up with a website like happyexjws.com where we record a short video of ourselves saying we are now happy and briefly explaining why.

  kind of like the atheist group who's members blaspheme against the holy spirit.

  thoughts?.

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  IsaacJS2

  If we do this, we should also make the ex-Witness sites aware of it. It's easy to paste YouTube videos into a site. I would certainly post any I found there on my site.

  Does anyone want to take the lead on this? We could create a video just as the RRS did for the Blaspheme Challenge, then have everyone else post theirs as a response. That way we can find them all in one place. Might even be inspiring.

  Just make sure to make these are happy messages, not angry "screw you WT!" messages. That's exactly what the Society would want. It would actually prove that we're crazy rather than prove we're good, happy people. The originator of the post could delete angry messages as necessary (though people could still post them elsewhere). Unfortunately, that's probably a necessary evil. Bear in mind that it might even get some attention online also.

  Just a thought. :-)

  IsaacJ
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  22

  How would you respond to the elders?

  by jgnat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  id like to help metaspy and others out on helping them overcome the manipulative language of the society.

  when it happens, we have no time to come back with a snappy answer.

  but maybe we can help in the future how the manipulative language is wrong, and how to clear the destructive fog (fear obligation guilt) in our heads.. do you think my retorts would help?

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  IsaacJS2

  I've actually been meaning to put something like this together on my web site as well. I'd love to hear a list of the comments everyone has heard during these circumstances even if you don't have a response to go with them. Maybe the rest of us will see it and come up with one for you.

  IsaacJ
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  13

  Why i no longer feel bad about not believing...lacking faith...DUH!

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hit enter by accident so will hurry dang it!

  what did it take for the apostles and other followers of jesus to believe????

  did they believe just because jesus said "follow me and you will have everlasting life...and yeah i fullfill everything about he messiah and am prett much speaking for him?

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  IsaacJS2

  I feel this way too. I mean, all theistic religions pretty much claim to have the backing of their deity. The WTS is nothing knew there. Most religions I know of aren't so gung ho about it though. The WTS downright brags about it! Yet the claim is not enough to make them special.

  At the end of the day, if the FDS doesn't hear directly from God or Jesus, how do they even "know" they are anointed to begin with? How do they know anything they teach is "the truth?" Well ... faith, I guess. Only their faith is in themselves, it seems. It's so weird that they can get others to believe in them too when they have so little to back up their claim.

  It seems that anyone can start a religion if they want. Just tell someone that you're chosen, but you can't prove it - even to yourself! You just believe and it must be so. Then shout, "Hail me!" from the rooftops. Apparently a few people will actually start doing it if the WTS is any example.

  Isn't it weird how the human mind works? And how easily it can manipulated? I continue to find this sort of thing intriguing.

  IsaacJ
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  56

  hardest conversation of my life

  by metaspy in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  moments ago, i talked to my mom.. i told her that i was taking some time off from going to meetings and service.. the conversation went down hill from there.. as her usual she just dismissed my reasons as if they meant nothing.. i pointed to the child molestations as my main reason for leaving.. "you are being over-sensitive", "jehovah takes care of things in his own time", "rely on jehovah".

  those were the catch phrases of the conversation.. a new one was: "what have you been reading?".

  i have a hard time standing up to my mother.

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  IsaacJS2

  By the time I discovered your post, there were already like 3 pages of messages. I didn't have time to read them all, but I did want to say something. Sorry if it's already been posted by someone else.

  Anyway, I've dealt with a lot of controlling and manipulative people in my life. Including family sad to say. It does become a self esteem issue. I agree with everyone who said you should stand up to her. A lot of what I could say here advice-wise has already been said here and here. Some of those articles might be useful to you. I wrote them as advice for people dealing with pressure from JW relatives and "friends."

  But I've had a lot of non-Witnesses put the screws to me as well. One of the best things I can think to say about this is that controlling, abusive people need you far more than you need them. Never forget that.

  They need you to feel powerful, in control, loved (even if it's in a sick way) or to take the blame. My father, for instance, is just like his own mother. He needs to be able to hurt you and control you to feel that you love him. He craves it and he can't stop. It's sick, frankly. I could go into it more, but I don't want to make the post so long that no one will read it. Suffice to say that some people are just screwed up. Don't let them take you with them, no matter your obligation. If you can't deal with them, then sometimes you're only option is to cut them off. Sad but true.

  No one has the right to crush you in order to feel better about themselves. No one. Not even family. Remember that and say it to yourself when you're in a confrontation like this. It can help you stand up taller when they force you to do so. Remember, it's about them - not you. Don't take the blame. You have rights too.

  IsaacJ
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  39

  Why Do Atheists Get So Angry?

  by serotonin_wraith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html.

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  IsaacJS2

  I know someone is going to call me "angry" for this, but I usually avoid debates and arguments like this in the forum. Hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt on this one.

  Sure, many atheists get frustrated over certain things--to me, that just makes us the same as everybody else. It really shouldn't earn all nonbelievers the "angry atheist" label. You know? Yeah, it does get everyone's attention when we do get angry over an atheist issue. We're usually ignored when we're just being regular people doing regular things. The same can be said for believers. It's normal. I really don't think there's a difference here, only one in how we perceive each other.

  I know that most religious believers here aren't ultra-fundamentalists who hate Muslims, gays, feminists, atheists, immigrants, etc. But the believers I described do tend to draw a lot more attention than run of the mill believers doing run of the mill things. If I only took notice of the extremists and the nut jobs, I might think all believers are crazy or angry or bigotted. But that wouldn't be right. Surely you can see my point here?

  Anyway, kicking around that stereotype here yet again is kinda boring. The stereotyping and condescension really does get kinda old for both sides. Might even make me kinda angry... Uh oh!

  Please, I'm really not trying to spark a fight here. Just sayin' is all... Take it or ignore it I suppose. I'll leave you to discuss it amongst yourselves if you wish.

  Peace.

  IsaacJ
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  20

  1. What was it like when you "awakend?" 2. How did you know, and......

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  2.5 how did you react at that time?.

  3.how long was it before you somehow took action on this event?

  4. was there a particular thing that all of a sudden caused you to wake up, or did doubts build over the years?

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  IsaacJS2

  1. What was it like when you "awakened?"

  Mostly, I was relieved. I simply made up my mind that I was done. At least for a while. I didn't let go completely for several more years.

  2. How did you know and how did you react at that time?

  The Society was pure poison for me. I finally realized that all this misery and feelings of despair were coming from my supposed fountain of hope. Well, how do ya like that... I still believed in God at the time, and felt that this wasn't the organization God wanted it to be. If it was His organization, then God wasn't so great after all. So I knew I needed to step back and start over. The big thing was that all the attitudes and hubris I had once pinned on my local Elders started coming through the magazines themselves! That was the beginning of the end.

  3. How long was it before you took action on this event?

  A year or two. I remember when I first started to sense that something was missing. It just didn't feel "true" or satisfying any more, but I kept on chugging in the face of the shame. Looking back, I think I couldn't accept it until after I was married because I couldn't get married if I didn't believe. But I was just barely doing what I had to by the time we did. A year or so later, I finally accepted the fact that I absolutely hated the meetings and couldn't stand most of the people there. The Elders were the absolute worst.

  4. Was there a particular thing that all of a sudden caused you to wake up, or did doubts build over the years?

  It came in stages. First, I realized the local Elders were screwed up really, truly badly. But I thought the Society was still the real deal. Only they never did anything to straighten the congregation out despite the cries for help. Then the magazines started saying many of the same things the Elders were in their talks. It wasn't until after I was married that I fully accepted the source of my pain was the Society.

  5.What finally did it for you?

  I covered that one.

  6. How long before you in some way were no more part of your congregation?

  Happened all at once. I finally realized that I couldn't take it any more. I was going to do something harmful to myself just to keep going. No, I thought. This is sick. I never went to another meeting. 2 weeks later and the harassment began, but I stuck to my guns. And I do take it rather personal when they try to proselytize me even now. (I wrote about it on my web site) Otherwise, they can do whatever they like. I didn't realize that I was an atheist until a decade after I'd left. But that's another story.

  IsaacJ