Posts by Marcel

28

Spirits of the Dead - love this brochure

by moomanchu in

this is a fun brochure to read after you have been out for awhile makes you realize how crazy it all was.. i listed some good quotes, there's more.. .

spirits have no tlived and died on earth (cept those bad angels before the flood).

spirits exist!

Marcel

thats a tough topic for me! ive spoken to so many ppl who *swear* to *know* that there *ARE* evil spirits.
ppl who've seen them. whole familys who have been punished by spirits. you can find myths and religions on evil spirits all over the world. artists who say spirits talk to them and help them to write their songs.

*all* lies? everything made up? how can something completely made up spawn so many "evidences"?

i would love to believe that there are NO evil spirits. but its hard for me. sure, i never seen anything explicit supernatural, but if satan and the demons have two strategies? hiding their existence to intellectual ppl and show their existence to spiritual ppl?
would be smart. would explain many things.

if there is NO spirtual world im fine with living my life and dont bother with religion anymore.
but if THERE ARE evil spirits, i feel like doing something. and i tend to live a life as a JW instead of searching another religion.

tough, thats tough, tough!

2

Have You ever experienced that?

by Marcel in

theres a thing that always amazed me, but almost never hit me in person.

okay, imagine: big assembly, second/third day, talk and new book/magazine released, brothers sitting on boxes full of the released publication, singing, prayer, run!

have you ever felt that rush of happiness that gives many jws that sparkle of joy in the eyes when a new publication is released?

Marcel

Hi!

theres a thing that always amazed me, but almost never hit me in person.
okay, imagine: big assembly, second/third day, talk and new book/magazine released, brothers sitting on boxes full of the released publication, singing, prayer, RUN!

have you ever felt that rush of happiness that gives many JWs that sparkle of joy in the eyes when a new publication is released? its like a second bible fell from the heavens. they dont stop clapping, they're excited and they would kill their moms to get the new publication before anyone else.

i was NEVER that way. the maximum was, that i felt "hey, nice, ill read it sometime!". only when i was a kid i liked the run for the publication after "amen". dont get me wrong: at some point in the past i really believed its the truth and i thought all publications are some kind of gods gift, but i just never had that sparkle! do you?

the last time i attended a big assembly i didnt bother to get a copy of the new publication, but i had to go, because my wife wanted me to grab a copy. i should have take two dozens just to burn some WT money... ;D

Marcel

23

Did you ACTUALLY do this?

by Frequent_Fader_Miles in

as part of your "dedication and baptism" did you actually go to jehovah in prayer and "dedicate" your life to him prior to your baptism?

at the time when the elders were reviewing the "questions" with me, i hadn't a clue that i was supposed to do this until one of them asked directly.

i answered in the affirmative anyway ... wanting the incessant questioning to be over as quickly as possible.

Marcel

yeah, i did! i was 14!

to be exact: i did it more than one time. i always had not the "sacred" feeling i thought it would give me. i tried to bow down more and pray with more emotion. i guess it was at the very same time i had some doubts about the things written in the creation-book (the old one). one of my first doubts i ever had.

additionally when i was 14 i hadnt my hormones under control. i was abstinent (from myself) for 2 months and sinned again in the very same week as my baptism!!! i felt very sick when i sat there and listened to my baptism-talk because of my sins (like i felt sick my whole youth but only more). my sister gave me a tape with the talk recorded. i couldnt listen to it yet. its 11 years ago.
maybe i should burn it on a cd before it vanishes. it was a fault to do this back then, but its still a part of my life.

i took the decision to get baptized because i thought i "have" to. besides some minor doubts (which i blame on my human errors) i was a believer and the "i have to" and "i want to" feelings melted together. i didnt felt ready for it to be honest, but i thought: "if dont do it know i have to do it later". i was glad that it was over. my father told me afterwards that the elders were told that any child who grew up in the "truth" and didnt got baptized before 14 is probably spiritually unhealthy. i was right... i had to...

everyone was hugging me and was so happy. i didnt felt happy really. i felt sick and unhappy. because of my sins, my doubts. i hadnt that feeling that everyone else seemed to have.

the only good thing that happened was that the chicks at the assembly liked me more suddenly =) lol!

8

144.000 and their biblical facts

by Marcel in

i always wondered how all the facts about the 144.000 written in revelation are discarded by jws.. i would like to know how the wts talks all these things away that doesnt fit their doctrine.. .

(revelation 7:4) .

.and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel:.... (revelation 14:1) .

Marcel

Hi there!

I always wondered how all the facts about the 144.000 written in Revelation are discarded by JWs.
I would like to know how the WTS talks all these things away that doesnt fit their doctrine.

(Revelation 7:4) . . .
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:...
(Revelation 14:1) . . .And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
(Revelation 14:4) . . .These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins...

(1) -> Son of Israel - NOT of all nations
(2) -> Mount Zion is a earthly symbol and not a heavenly one
(3) -> virgin men, not deflowered women and men

Where comes that "spiritual Israel"-Doctrine from? What is Zion? Why does virgin dont mean virgin?

This aint a typical "WTS teaches BS"-post - i just want to know how JW see that. ive tried to look it up myself but i didnt found anything convincing (means: something that sounds logical to me) yet.

Thank You!

Marcel

10

Earthquakes (again!)

by dozy in

it still annoys me that the wts have never withdrawn their quote about the increased frequency of earthquakes (and this quote was used by several speakers in the recent special talk , unaware that the wts has changed its position on this) , so i emailed the national geophysical data center in colorado and the national earthquake information center in golden, colorado to get their comments.. my email & replies:.

dear sir / madam,.

the watchtower society of pennsylvania (the corporate arm of jehovah's witnesses) have for over twenty years been using the following quote to support their belief that earthquakes have increased since 1914 in fulfillment of bible prophecy.

Marcel

in one of the lastest publications (unfortunately i completely forgot where i read it) the watchtower society tried another approach.

it was said, that the endtimes not necessarily need an INCREASE in earthquakes. jesus said that there WILL BE earthquakes from one place to the other. so since we have earthquakeson earth its fulfilled. additionally the increase in casualties caused by increased population its fulfilled too.

so in wt sight theres no need to cry.

i was annoyed too when on the special talk the old dishonest prove was given AGAIN.

38

Hi

by Missanna in

hey i just joined here i have finally got up the courage to start doing research for myself since i've left the "truth" just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.

my name is anna and i got out of the org.

almost a year ago.

Marcel

welcome to the board anna (=

35

When you were in field service....

by lavendar in

did you ever have anyone, at the door, say something to you that created a seed of doubt in your mind about the wts?

something at all that started you thinking "maybe i'm really not in the truth".

i would be interested in hearing about that.. thanks,.

Marcel

no, there wasnt ever any one in field service who said something which led to doubt. in most cases things householders said were proof for the the truth (yay). it was the articles of the WTS who planted the seed. things that doesnt sound and feel alright.

15

Has the organisation the biblical right to judge its members?

by Marcel in

okay, before you say straight "no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!1111111111111111" let us rethink.

lets say jehovas witnesses actually have the truth.

Marcel

Hi!

Okay, before you say straight "No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111" let us rethink.
Lets say Jehovas Witnesses ACTUALLY HAVE the truth.

okay...

Gave Jesus his earthly organisation rights? if yes, which? are they able to judge its members? create rules? and most important: told jesus its members to OBEY the organisation even if one may think what they teach is wrong?

it seems like that are the main questions i create my whole doubts around.

i would like to discuss scriptures which support this or not.

i personally think that something with the whole thing is wrong, but i cant point to it.
Its just, if the above questions are all answered yes:
- how can you determine the right religion if not on their teachings?
- is it possible that wrong teachings and behaviour are "correct" (and the correct ones wrong...) to god as long as the organisation doesnt know better?

some scriptures i have found:

(Hebrews 13:17) 17 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over YOUR souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to YOU.

(Philippians 2:12-18) 12 Consequently, my beloved ones, in the way that YOU have always obeyed, not during my presence only, but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is the one that, for the sake of [his] good pleasure, is acting within YOU in order for YOU both to will and to act. 14 Keep doing all things free from murmurings and arguments, 15 that YOU may come to be blameless and innocent, children of God without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation, among whom YOU are shining as illuminators in the world, 16 keeping a tight grip on the word of life, that I may have cause for exultation in Christ’s day, that I did not run in vain or work hard in vain. 17 Notwithstanding, even if I am being poured out like a drink offering upon the sacrifice and public service to which faith has led YOU, I am glad and I rejoice with all of YOU. 18 Now in the same way YOU yourselves also be glad and rejoice with me.

(1 Corinthians 5:1-5) 5 Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father. 2 And are YOU puffed up, and did YOU not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from YOUR midst? 3 I for one, although absent in body but present in spirit, have certainly judged already, as if I were present, the man who has worked in such a way as this, 4 that in the name of our Lord Jesus, when YOU are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 YOU hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

(1 Timothy 6:2-4) 2 Moreover, let those having believing owners not look down on them, because they are brothers. On the contrary, let them the more readily be slaves, because those receiving the benefit of their good service are believers and beloved. Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. . . .

---

there are many more scripture which tell about the paul giving advice and judge. and about shunning and stuff.

are there any scriptures which give a religion not complete control?

i guess im "mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words" ;(

marcel

9

In bed with a WT clone

by Axeman in

i married a jw convert.

looking back it was if she related to me and the kids like we were a duty like she was reading a scrip on how to relate to us.

like her love ( if you can call it that ) depended on how well we performed as witnesses.

Marcel

i feel for you, buddy. im a jw and im married to a jw. i dont have the exact same experiences but i can imagine. i often feel bad and unworthy because she could've marry anyone but me and would have a devoted ministry servant or elder and would have kids. i cant do all that. ive thrown all my privileges away and live a minimal-jw life. and because of the gap between me and my wife in questions about raising kids (she would teach the jw belief as truth, truth, truth and i would teach my kids that they have the choice to believe anything) i dont want kids. kids shouldnt grow up in so bad conditions.

actually i fear more, when i leave the organisation im the marked one. the bad association to my wife. "the problem". elders would do shepherding visits (secretly, when im not there) to help my wife to live with such bad conditions - with an unfaithful husband - me. everyone would think how unlucky she is and how good it would be for her, when i wouldnt be there. it breaks my heart. i cant bear that. its so cruel. from a loving husband to a monster in a matter of seconds, when it is announced on the meeting.

i remember the happiness in the congregation when a sister lost her husband who was against the truth. he let her go but tried to convince her to stop it all the time. she prayed to god that he should help her often. and on one time she came home from a meeting he was dead. what a happy day... thats truly evidence that god helps his followers...

i would laugh if it wasnt so sad. back then i was happy for her too... damn...

34

Anyone find any decent pro-Witness sites?

by IsaacJS2 in

as i've mentioned a few times before, i'm working on a round of articles for austin cline's site.

the final "big daddy" article is an evaluation: is the wts a controlling, harmful cult?

but i don't plan on doing an attack article.

Marcel

pro-sites are boring, because they are just copies (mostly in own words but the same content) of WT publications. the author of the website is neither allowed nor willing to put any of his own beliefs into play. that make them pointless. just read jw books and youve full info.

additionally many of the authors will bow to the organisation and shut down their website. in the cases i know it was always strongly suggested to shut down the website.