Posts by Marcel

10

Earthquakes (again!)

by dozy in

it still annoys me that the wts have never withdrawn their quote about the increased frequency of earthquakes (and this quote was used by several speakers in the recent special talk , unaware that the wts has changed its position on this) , so i emailed the national geophysical data center in colorado and the national earthquake information center in golden, colorado to get their comments.. my email & replies:.

dear sir / madam,.

the watchtower society of pennsylvania (the corporate arm of jehovah's witnesses) have for over twenty years been using the following quote to support their belief that earthquakes have increased since 1914 in fulfillment of bible prophecy.

Marcel

in one of the lastest publications (unfortunately i completely forgot where i read it) the watchtower society tried another approach.

it was said, that the endtimes not necessarily need an INCREASE in earthquakes. jesus said that there WILL BE earthquakes from one place to the other. so since we have earthquakeson earth its fulfilled. additionally the increase in casualties caused by increased population its fulfilled too.

so in wt sight theres no need to cry.

i was annoyed too when on the special talk the old dishonest prove was given AGAIN.

38

Hi

by Missanna in

hey i just joined here i have finally got up the courage to start doing research for myself since i've left the "truth" just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.

my name is anna and i got out of the org.

almost a year ago.

Marcel

welcome to the board anna (=

35

When you were in field service....

by lavendar in

did you ever have anyone, at the door, say something to you that created a seed of doubt in your mind about the wts?

something at all that started you thinking "maybe i'm really not in the truth".

i would be interested in hearing about that.. thanks,.

Marcel

no, there wasnt ever any one in field service who said something which led to doubt. in most cases things householders said were proof for the the truth (yay). it was the articles of the WTS who planted the seed. things that doesnt sound and feel alright.

15

Has the organisation the biblical right to judge its members?

by Marcel in

okay, before you say straight "no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!1111111111111111" let us rethink.

lets say jehovas witnesses actually have the truth.

Marcel

Hi!

Okay, before you say straight "No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111" let us rethink.
Lets say Jehovas Witnesses ACTUALLY HAVE the truth.

okay...

Gave Jesus his earthly organisation rights? if yes, which? are they able to judge its members? create rules? and most important: told jesus its members to OBEY the organisation even if one may think what they teach is wrong?

it seems like that are the main questions i create my whole doubts around.

i would like to discuss scriptures which support this or not.

i personally think that something with the whole thing is wrong, but i cant point to it.
Its just, if the above questions are all answered yes:
- how can you determine the right religion if not on their teachings?
- is it possible that wrong teachings and behaviour are "correct" (and the correct ones wrong...) to god as long as the organisation doesnt know better?

some scriptures i have found:

(Hebrews 13:17) 17 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over YOUR souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to YOU.

(Philippians 2:12-18) 12 Consequently, my beloved ones, in the way that YOU have always obeyed, not during my presence only, but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is the one that, for the sake of [his] good pleasure, is acting within YOU in order for YOU both to will and to act. 14 Keep doing all things free from murmurings and arguments, 15 that YOU may come to be blameless and innocent, children of God without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation, among whom YOU are shining as illuminators in the world, 16 keeping a tight grip on the word of life, that I may have cause for exultation in Christ’s day, that I did not run in vain or work hard in vain. 17 Notwithstanding, even if I am being poured out like a drink offering upon the sacrifice and public service to which faith has led YOU, I am glad and I rejoice with all of YOU. 18 Now in the same way YOU yourselves also be glad and rejoice with me.

(1 Corinthians 5:1-5) 5 Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father. 2 And are YOU puffed up, and did YOU not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from YOUR midst? 3 I for one, although absent in body but present in spirit, have certainly judged already, as if I were present, the man who has worked in such a way as this, 4 that in the name of our Lord Jesus, when YOU are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 YOU hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

(1 Timothy 6:2-4) 2 Moreover, let those having believing owners not look down on them, because they are brothers. On the contrary, let them the more readily be slaves, because those receiving the benefit of their good service are believers and beloved. Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. . . .

---

there are many more scripture which tell about the paul giving advice and judge. and about shunning and stuff.

are there any scriptures which give a religion not complete control?

i guess im "mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words" ;(

marcel

9

In bed with a WT clone

by Axeman in

i married a jw convert.

looking back it was if she related to me and the kids like we were a duty like she was reading a scrip on how to relate to us.

like her love ( if you can call it that ) depended on how well we performed as witnesses.

Marcel

i feel for you, buddy. im a jw and im married to a jw. i dont have the exact same experiences but i can imagine. i often feel bad and unworthy because she could've marry anyone but me and would have a devoted ministry servant or elder and would have kids. i cant do all that. ive thrown all my privileges away and live a minimal-jw life. and because of the gap between me and my wife in questions about raising kids (she would teach the jw belief as truth, truth, truth and i would teach my kids that they have the choice to believe anything) i dont want kids. kids shouldnt grow up in so bad conditions.

actually i fear more, when i leave the organisation im the marked one. the bad association to my wife. "the problem". elders would do shepherding visits (secretly, when im not there) to help my wife to live with such bad conditions - with an unfaithful husband - me. everyone would think how unlucky she is and how good it would be for her, when i wouldnt be there. it breaks my heart. i cant bear that. its so cruel. from a loving husband to a monster in a matter of seconds, when it is announced on the meeting.

i remember the happiness in the congregation when a sister lost her husband who was against the truth. he let her go but tried to convince her to stop it all the time. she prayed to god that he should help her often. and on one time she came home from a meeting he was dead. what a happy day... thats truly evidence that god helps his followers...

i would laugh if it wasnt so sad. back then i was happy for her too... damn...

34

Anyone find any decent pro-Witness sites?

by IsaacJS2 in

as i've mentioned a few times before, i'm working on a round of articles for austin cline's site.

the final "big daddy" article is an evaluation: is the wts a controlling, harmful cult?

but i don't plan on doing an attack article.

Marcel

pro-sites are boring, because they are just copies (mostly in own words but the same content) of WT publications. the author of the website is neither allowed nor willing to put any of his own beliefs into play. that make them pointless. just read jw books and youve full info.

additionally many of the authors will bow to the organisation and shut down their website. in the cases i know it was always strongly suggested to shut down the website.

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

Marcel

ANewLeif,

yes, i think you're right. the problem i see is just that i know how to react to those arguments as a JW. there IS a view to see things different but still somehow convincing. none of the arguments could *impress* an active JW much. no showstopper. they just have an answer which is enough for them to sort the argument out. even if the answer sounds weired to an outsider.

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

Marcel

>> Today you will be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43) A thief is invited to join Jesus in Heaven "today"
thats a translation thing. jw belief jesus said this: "43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”" In fact the original greek scripture dont indicate which version is correct. JW saying in context with other verses which seperate father and son the comma needs to be this way.

>> The rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) Heaven and hell. How did Lazarus get transported to Heaven?
this is in jw mind a illustration because it is in oppose to other simpler statements regarding the dead.

>> Jesus' visit with Moses and Elijah (Luke 9:28-36, Matthew 17:1-13; Mark 9:2-13) If Moses and Elijah were asleep in death waiting for the resurrection, who met with Jesus on the mountain?
this was a image to show the apostles that jesus was really the important figure (like moses and elijah). in fact both were dead and werent there in person.

>> Another one. The JW's claim they only celebrate the holiday Jesus commanded, that is the Memorial of his death. But they completely fail to memorialize another ritual, the foot-washing ceremony. He told the disciples to "14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Why don't the JW's of today do it?
the foot washing ceremony wasnt part of the new covenant. and the foot washing was a symbol for servants and that nobodys standing above any other. a lesson in humbleness. not a ritual.

>> Matthew 28:19, 20 ... if each individual Christian should preach and teach, then each individual Christian should also baptize.
this text can be understood twice. i dont see a major reason why every SINGLE jw needs to baptize someone to gain salvation. pretty unpracticle to. it means every new member would need to wait for a new member to baptize. like a chain letter. too much problems to understand it this way.

>> The book of Acts is full of references to what JWs now call "interfaith." The Christians went into the temples and synagogues all the time, listening and teaching.
a JW isnt forbidden to preach to unfaithful people, better: its their duty. but they have to care of their own spirtual health too. witnesses preach to the people where they are. nearly noone is at the center of false religion all day long. no need for the risk.

>> "Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no savior." Isaiah 43:10-11 ASV
Cant see the problem? since jehovah created jesus and constructed the plan to save mankind hes the only savior. even jesus couldnt do anything without jehovah.

>> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." John 1:1 NWT
its written "a god" and not just "god" which makes the difference. jesus is not referenced as god himself, but only with a godly title. since other passages rule out that father and son are one person this has to be meant this way.

>> "Looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13
cant see the problem with jw doctrines.

to put it short: if a jw doesnt WANT to doubt he wouldnt do it. the same visceversa: if an outsider doesnt want to believe he wont.

10

Women's intuition

by looking_glass in

i have always said as women we down play our intuition, when we should rely on it more.

words i should have lived by.. several years ago i dated a guy for 2 years.

he lived in the burbs and i was in the city.

Marcel

thats human intuition not womens ;) lol. no, seriously i dont wanna judge which gender is better in intuition, but i know that my male intuition is incredible accurate often ;D but maybe thats because im male and dont know true intuition lol ;D

67

Maybe I should go back and be a good little dubbie again!!

by AK - Jeff in

i believe that i am experiencing a profound change in my personality, and those changes are at a stage where i have honestly contemplated this recently.

honestly.. i don't think i could ever do it - anyone who has followed me on the boards here know that i am neither suicidal nor an apologist for that lot.

yet, having been off work for a few weeks now with surgical recovery, i have had time to make assessment of my future.

Marcel

hi ak jeff!

seriously, your story moves me to tears. im 26 and im already in a similar situation. i dont know how to make friends outside. in fact i dont wanna really. i feel very comfortable with other witnesses even though i dont believe the doctrines. its just i AM one of THEM somehow! i was never 100% sure of doctrines but i washed them away in my brain and did what was expected of me (and sometimes felt even joy with it).

with worldy people i have very lil' in common. no jw jokes, celebration of pagan things i dont long for, other attitude at all. i dont long for worldy peoples friendship very much.

and even if i find very good ones i still lose
- all my friends i know since i was a infant and child. most of them i would trust so much that i would givem all i have to take care of without being nervous. noone can replace my family, my parents, my sisters. my wife.

i would love to make friends with local people who are in the same situation as me. but where to find if not to steal? i even dont feel like going to apostate-meetings yet.

marcel