Posts by SnakesInTheTower

25

At The Peak Of Your JW Spirituality, Did You Ever Not Believe Something ?

by minimus in

jw
friends

at your most "spiritual", did you believe everything that was taught----even if you didn't quite understand it all?

SnakesInTheTower

the whole "generation"/dates issue bothered me. I once told someone, "if they dont change this soon, they will get caught with their pants down", It took them 10 years to change it.

SnakesInTheTower (of the "Still bothered" Sheep Class)

48

Posting Here: secretly or openly?

by AllAlongTheWatchtower in

just curious, how many of you have to hide the fact that you post here from family?

i'm especially thinking of those with spouses who are in, while they themselves either never were, faded, dfed/daed, etc but if you are a child hiding it from parents, that applies too.

if you are posting secretly, how secretive do you have to be?

SnakesInTheTower

posting quietly..no one here at home to worry about. still technically in, but go about once a month to the KH...about time for my monthly ~~enema~~ KH visit.

SnakesInTheTower (of the "posting incognito" Sheep Class)

14

What did you like/hate about JW calendars?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

for me, every (other) saturday was magazine day.

the only marked date on the calendar was the memorial.. the nature scenes were ok when they had a nature theme.

i think the calendar is too small, boxes not big enough to write in..

LIKE: The scenes are all nature scenes. I have one hanging in my living room (I noticed that all the photos are all worldy web source... age Fotostock, although of the 400+ photos I could not find the polar bear and cub one specifically, cause I'd like to get it ...without the scripture superimposed)

HATE: the scriptures superimposed...two months instead of 1, small boxes to write on. No holidays even mentioned (how about at least an asterisk * to at least acknowledge that we are bothering people on a holiday.,..KM ministry makes a huge deal of ministry on holiday, how are we to know if it is not on the BorgCalendar?)

..side note, I wonder why I kept every single calendar going back 20 years? They can be reused ever few years when the dates all align, but why? I finally threw them all in to the recycle bin along with all the daily texts.... hmmm..what else can I toss?

SnakesInTheTower (of the "never in ministry on holidays, or any time now" Sheep Class)

7

I'm online at home....

by ex-nj-jw in

jw
friends

finally i got my computer and internet connection at home!!

i'm using an old windows system so i can't use all the "cool" smiley's right now!.

i can finally stop having withdrawal symptoms when i leave work and can't log onto jwd!

SnakesInTheTower

I'm addicted and I have no plans to get rehab.

this IS rehab.

SnakesInTheTower (of the "getting rehabilitated" Sheep Class)

13

A BIG Thank You to You All!!

by R.F. in

jw
friends

i know i've been posting here on jwd for only a month and a half or so, but i would like to give everyone here a big thank you!!.

i know i've come here and it seems like mostly venting from me, but it means alot for you all to listen and give much advise.

it's kinda like big sister or big brother....you've been there and done that(still doing it for many of you) and your giving little brother valuable advise.. there has been so much to go on in my life in the last month or so that i've never been through, but i'd first say that i've gotten this unbelieveable strength from god, along with your helping hands along the way.

SnakesInTheTower

RF

yes, you have been a prolific poster (I've been here a few months longer and likely will not catch up with you ) .I have enjoyed your posts and hope this is just the beginning of your journey here on JWD. And thanks for your PMs. I have not forgotten about your PM requests for some of my stories off line. One day, those stories will be out here too. I dont remember you saying where you were from (PM if you wish). I'd love to catch up with you in RL and swap war stories from the Borg...maybe at one of the upcoming Apostafests.....

A lot has changed for you and more changes are ahead. Glad you have purps there in the area. There is another thread going on here today asking about favorite posters, but your thread title here says what I really need to say. thanks to you all. For good or bad, I will likely be here for a long time to come putting in my 2 cents worth...(assuming the Big A doesn't come or Simon falls behind on his server payments or some such disaster....... )

journey on RF, journey on...

SnakesInTheTower (of the "wanting out soon" Sheep Class)

74

Update! Drew Sagan is no longer a Jehovah's Witness

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

as promised here is all of the info regarding what has been going on.

per the last jc with the elders i realized that all i had done was buy time.

they felt that we should be df'ed right on the spot, but because i made a plea to wait for a letter coming back from the wts they decided to hold on taking such action.

SnakesInTheTower

ds and ar:

congrats...I hope you are able to pull the rest of your family out of the burning building called WTBT$.. The Borg must be paranoid if a little think like a Y membership (which barely got a mention in the Craptower years ago) causes them to piss their collective pants. I wonder how many R&F dubs (esp new ones) know they cant join the Y?

I think the only reason to appeal is to have some fun with the bastards. (I hope Elder B is really a good guy and sees the light). Make sure to bring those recorders into the appeals committee. And by the way, dont let them tell you that you cant, but if the appeals committee upholds the original committee's decision, appeal it to the Society. They dont tell you that you can, but you can (and they are supposed to hold the announcement in abeyance until it is finally resolved).

Speak to a lawyer about the possibility of suing these elders for slander. I'd make it quite clear to them that it's not the Organization you're suing----it's them personally which will cost them alot of cha-ching in lawyers fees. And if they think 'mother' would help them out financially, they're dreaming.

Regarding lawyers, just remember, its not worth the hassle financially...unless you are made of money, in which case, can I have some? The elders may have to pay for lawyers, but the FREE Borg Lawyers who fight in front of the US Supreme court and have a pretty good record and have already set precedent on this issue (see below....at least in lower courts) regarding D/F...its their religious right to boot whomever they wish.......YOU have to PAY for A lawyer, likely never in front of the highest court in the land...and likely wont win unless there is a dramatic shift in mindset in the federal court system. ...NOT worth the hassle for you......

NO MATTER WHAT, ENJOY YOUR FREEDOM...I WISH I WAS READY TO MAKE THE LEAP. ...best wishes...and hope to hear more from you hear.

SnakesInTheTower (of the "not making meetings hardly at all" Sheep Class)

REFERENCES/QUOTES:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Disfellowship-shunning-1.htm

The Court Decision
16 You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.
17 Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah's Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise' provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.
18 The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah's Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text . . . The defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs . . . Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Churches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members. We agree with [former U.S. Supreme Court] Justice Jackson's view that ‘[r]eligious activities which concern only members of the faith are and ought to be free—as nearly absolutely free as anything can be.' . . . The members of the Church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice.”
19 The court of appeals acknowledged that even if the woman felt distress because former acquaintances chose not to converse with her, “permitting her to recover for intangible or emotional injuries would unconstitutionally restrict the Jehovah's Witnesses free exercise of religion . . . The constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion requires that society tolerate the type of harms suffered by [her] as a price well worth paying to safeguard the right of religious difference that all citizens enjoy.” This decision has, in a sense, received even more weight since it was handed down. How so? The woman later petitioned the highest court in the land to hear the case and possibly overturn the decision against her. But in November 1987, the United States Supreme Court refused to do so.
20 Hence, this important case determined that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person cannot recover damages from Jehovah's Witnesses in a court of law for being shunned. Since the congregation was responding to the perfect directions that all of us can read in God's Word and applying it, the person is feeling a loss brought on by his or her own actions

and more specifically this at the end of a letter posted on RandyTV.com from the BorgLegalDepartment to someone who disagreed with them is found at http://www.randytv.com/secret/dfletter1987.htm

Janice Paul (Perez) v Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., et al., decision rendered June 16, 1985, by the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Washington in Spokane; Howard Bates v Kingdom Hall, et al., decision rendered July 24, 1985, by the Common Pleas Court of Montgomery County, Ohio; dismissal of theocratic issues affirmed by Court of Appeals of Montgomery County, Ohio, on March 6, 1986; Timothy Tauvar v Bar Harbor Congregation, et al,, 633 F. Supp. 741 (D.Me. 1985), dismissal affirmed, 787 F.2d 579 (1st Cir. 1986), cert. denied, January 12, 1987, by Supreme Court of the United States; Joseph E. Maes and Veta Maes v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, et al., decision rendered May 1, 1985, by the Superior Court of California, County of Sacramento; Ray Rasmussen and Pauline Rasmssen n v. Larry C. Bennett, et al decision rendered September 9, 1986, by the District Court of the Ninth Judicial District of the State of Montana, in and for the County of Toole; and Maurice E. Cassels v. Elders of the Sunnyslope Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, et al , decision rendered April 19, 1983, by the United States District Court for the District of Arizona.

23

Get Your 2007 DC "Follow the Christ" Badge Here

by V in

click here to download image from tinypic (http://i12.tinypic.com/4qz061k.jpg).

.

SnakesInTheTower

to correct the size do the following

Copy the .jpg into Microsoft Word. (similar procedures work in Open Office and WordPerfect)

Right click the picture. Choose Format Picture. Click the Size tab. You will see that the scale is 312%, which is why it prints so large. Change it to 100%..this will correct it to 3" x 4"

Print it out on a color printer. You may need to go into the printer settings to get the True Color function (or similar).

(Oh, you can insert a text box on each line and neatly print your name on each line...just list your congo as JWD!)

SnakesInTheTower (of the "doesnt have a badge, not sure he's goin" Sheep Class)

38

What told you that no holy spirit was moving the BOE?

by Crumpet in

i've read on and off here of various things that told people that god's spirit was not directing the organisation.. personally for me on the last time i got dfed it was the fact that i got reinstated by a meeting of the boe at the exact same moment i was smoking my first cigarettes in 7 months.

i didnt question it exactly but it did seem odd.

i mean i had no idea that they were discussing my reinstatement at that moment that i succumbed and had decided in my favour.

SnakesInTheTower

Crumpet..

I have seen this to be true since I was appointed MS back in the late 80s and then as an elder back in 2000/1. I experienced both sides of a JC (once as private reproof as an MS, but really a kangaroo court, set up to remove me as MS/pio "troublemaker" ....read that one who did not put up with the games. Having served on 15-20 JCs as an elder, I seen how the Bible was not used hardly at all and it was the Flock book (elder book) being used more. When I served as chairman of these JCs, I insisted we look at scriptures, which was usually met with harummphs.....except for the 2 or 3 "token" scriptures used to "reprove" the erring one, whether it was reproof or D/F. Scriptures were not mentioned in the private discussions of the elders on the JCs or at regular elders meetings...except as an opening ~~Theme~~ Token Scripture to "set the tone" of the meeting.

I once was on a BOE where the elder used the F word multiple times in great anger. (later dismissed as "Righteous anger"... I cant imagine Jesus using the Hebrew equivalent fu' ckh)

This, along with an elder in another congo who was busted for looking at porn (and allowed to remain because of his past "record of faithful service as elder/reg pio...what about the 2 years of looking at PORN! while serving as an elder!) , told me there was no Jehovah or his holy spirit involved in the appointments.

The local BOE uses ~~the Scriptures~~ their own personal standards to decide who is recommended. The CO looks at these recommendations and rarely overrides it...it is sent to Service at the Branch where it is LITERALLY rubber stamped with an "appointed by the GB" stamp....and I am certain Sam Herd is not sitting there with a stamp pad and stamper praying while doing this....can you imagine? (hmmm, looking skyward, "Jehovah, should Brother X in Timbuktu East Congo be appointed?...you say yes?..OK" STAMP! next...

As it was explained to some brothers at MTS, the GB is only directly involved in appointing two groups: 1) Branch Committees and 2) Circuit Overseers. Even DOs are appointed by the Service Dept, since they are taken from the pool of GB appointed CO's. They will never see the appointments of regular elders, pioneers, MS, etc. At no point is holy spirit involved.

Yet, I went along with it because it was the only game in town. No more.

SnakesInTheTower (of the "not playing nicely with BOE" Sheep Class)

42

Has money taken over...

by emptywords in

i have found that at every assembly being circuit, district or one day, they are always, always in deficit, why is this, at the last circuit assembly they said that it cost 6,000 for electicity for two days, and that to me was just embarrassing, i asked the sister next to me if what i heard was correct, and yes she said in debt for the weekend because of electricity.. another thing is the soliciting of property from older ones, i know that they do this with anyone that has property (especially older ones that have no heirs).

to leave their assets to the wts, because the governments will take it if you die.

but also what they can leave to the wts would be appreciated if they have family heirs left, i have seen this soliciting in the wt mags on occastions.. what is you're experience if any on this.. cheers.

SnakesInTheTower

once a year the Borg has a money article in the CrapTower (usually at the end of the year). And then there will be a ~~service~~ Money Meeting about the article to emphasize the part. I think I as assigned that part one year...cant remember if I actually gave it or was "sick" that night.

The Borg even has a brochure you could order from the Treasurer's office about "financial planning" (yeah, right)...I think you can still order it (the elders used to keep a copy, but no more).

Want a really good laugh, order it. Want a bigger laugh? when you get it, write a really really really nice letter on fancy paper telling them that you appreciate so much the hard work they do and that you wanted to make a substantial donation...enclose a smaller sealed envelope with a check in it..no, not a real check silly, but one of those great Danny Hazzard checks!

Can you imagine if the Treasurer's Office started getting hundreds or thousands of these letters with fake checks. (If I go to the DC, I will make sure to bring some of those fake checks printed on a color copier).

SnakesInTheTower (of the Prankster Sheep Class)

12

Could Brooklyn install security systems that would keep us from the know?

by AK - Jeff in

i mean would it be likely that near future all correspondence and letters could come thru a secure connection, presented verbally to elders by the co or do, or in secure digital format that would be able to trace all users and readers -so that it can be kept out of our hands?.

i am not a technical person in that regard - but it would seem possible that this could be done.

true - fading elders would get access - but if there is a digital trail in the system - if it finds it 's way to jwd or other places - they could soon hunt down the culprits.

SnakesInTheTower

they have already set up a secure server for reporting field service, memorial attendance and ordering literature. more functions were on the way when I was deleted as an elder. Some correspondance was being sent via email from the society to the CO to the PO/secretaries.

I would not be surprised if the society does not start sending correspondence on supposedly uncopyable paper (it exists, but I cannot find a decent link), although taking a picture with a camera bypasses the copier problem. Or maybe embedding microdots in the letter that if copied could be traced to a specific congo. Already a document can be traced to a specific printer...although I am fairly certain the borg is not that paranoid so as to let go of its ~~hard earned~~ donated money.

They must be nervous that we have BOE letters and other info before many of the local elders have them.

I seen the April 1 2007 letter about the reminders about what a WT conductor should and should not do before one of the elders had seen it (he is now PO, but was not at the time)...

There will always be fader elders. So the WT cannot stop us....

SnakesInTheTower (although not so much IN the tower myself now....but there are still snakes IN the Watchtower)

(of the "quickly fading" Sheep Class) ...woo hoo! just noticed....made it to Senior Member

Post 250 of 250
since 03-Feb-07

Senior Member

United States