Alpaca

Joined

• started 53 topics
• posted 703 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Alpaca

• 
  26

  Sir David Attenborough gets hate mail from viewers...who believe in Creation

  by Latte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  attenborough gets hate mail from viewerstue jan 27 11:54am by tv editor.

  recent articlesdancing on ice's ray 'marked down' by judgesproducers wanted clunes for doctor whoabsolutely fabulous idea or absolutely not?yahoo!

  users back verne to winitv slashes the billsir david attenborough has revealed that he gets hate mail from viewers for not crediting god in his documentaries.. the veteran broadcaster, who is presenting a new series on charles darwin, said that he has received letters telling him to burn in hell because of his views on evolution.. he told radio times that he is often asked why he does not credit god when talking about some of the creatures featured on his shows: "they always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  It doesn't surprise me at all.

  In the U.S. fully 1/2 of the population believes that it is possible they will see Armageddon in their lifetimes. With that many nuts running around what do you expect.

  It does all of us well to realize that the fundies are always just hairsbreadth away from wresting the control of our society from the rationalists and the moderates.

  That's why, as much of a pain-in-the-ass as it is, all of us who care about this kind of stuff need to be politically active and support organizations like American Atheists, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Center for Inquiry, Godless Americans, and other humanist organizations that fight against the injection of religion into government and politics.
• 
  19

  NEED HELP with Watchtower or publication quotes (age of the earth)

  by Tatiana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for the life of me i can't remember and can't find even with "search" what the exact belief was about the age of the earth.

  did it change?

  i could have sworn we were taught to believe that the earth was no more than 5-7 thousand years old.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  Tats,

  Go to bed. There is plenty of info. available. Check back tomorrow and all of your questions will have answers.

  All the best,

  Alex
• 
  24

  Human Sacrifice---The Ultimate Gift To God

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the aztecs were very much into wanting to please the gods, so they sacrificed animals and humans to appease their god(s).

  the mayans did the same.. the assyrians and other "pagans" were known to perform human sacrifices.

  throughout history, people have killed innocent victims---all in the name of trying to please god.. when nations go to war with one another, they praise those who give the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  While the "ultimate sacrifice" of giving one's life for a cause or a principle receives considerable attention in historical and contemporary commentary, a person can only do that once.

  IMHO, the WTBTS has figured out how to coerce it's adherents into the ultimate "ultimate sacrifice" by having individuals not just sacrifice once, but to pour a lifetime's worth of energy, financial and emotional resources, and health into the illusion--day after day, year after year, until the individual has expended everything on behalf of a mirage that is always visible and almost within grasp at the edge of the horizon....
• 
  18

  What are your weekends like now?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  compare and contrast.. my weekends as a jw;.

  saturday.

  stressing to get the kids ready in time to get out to meet the fs group.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  I left in 1997.

  Went back to school in 1999. For 10 years my weekends have been occupied mostly by homework and school related stuff--sprinkled with some fun stuff.

  The bottom line is that my post-Dub weekend activities have produced something of incalculable and enduring benefit.

  I have to continually coax myself out of not dwelling on the colossal waste of time I spent as a Dub doing all of the pathetic stuff they do.

  Anyway, school is finished and I am looking forward to starting a new life with a new career and actually enjoying not only my weekends, but my week, as well!!!!
• 
  14

  Did Knorr receive $20,000 a year from a benefactor?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i read here sometime in the last week or so (now i can't remember where though) that when knorr was the president of the watchtower society a benefactor would give him $20,000 every year!!!!.

  but when fred franz became president, for some reason this benefactor only gave him $17,500 a year.. is this true?.

  does anyone remember the thread here where this information was posted?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  I cannot address your questions directly, but I can provide some information that may fill in details about his lifestyle.

  My ex-wife's immediate family (her grandparents immigrated from Lebanon to Jamaica around the time of WW I) was originally from Jamaica (West Indies). Her father was a very successful businessman and they lived a very comfortable life with servants, a chauffer, and all of the other advantages of wealth. My ex's extended family (aunts and uncles) were all very successful as well and some of them who were not Dubs were politically influential as well.

  Whenever Knorr visited Jamaica (1950s and 1960s) he stayed at my ex's home and enjoyed the lifestyle my father-in-law provided for him and his wife -- fine dining, the best of new clothes, the chauffered car, etc.--anything they wanted. Other Bethel "heavies" were treated equally well by other members of my ex's extended family. I cannot categorically say, to what degree Knorr and the other influential Bethel "heavies" were given cash (although, that they definitely received plenty of it), I can say that they all lacked for nothing. All of them got first class treatment and accomodations wherever they went.

  Just to put this in perspective, my father-in-law was not an ass-kisser--he was a genuinely good, righteous man (although totally misguided as all of us were when we were in the BORG). However, there were plenty of other wealthy Dubs who I thought were total ass-kissers and sought out association with the Bethel and Branch "heavies" as a source of prestige. Some have discussed Harry Peloyan on this board--he was one of those who was treated like a king by ex's extended family.

  I think it is safe to say that the Knorr, Franz, and the other high-command lived a millionaire's lifestyle when they were travelling, even if they gave the outward appearance of modest living while they were at HQ in New York.

  I hope this is at least helpful.
• 
  10

  Age of Earth / Age of Universe

  by Shepherd Book in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here's my understanding of the watchtower's teachings through the years -.

  1. first they taught that the universe and the earth were created 6,000 years ago in a single week.. 2. then they taught that the universe was created at some unspecified point in the past, and that each of the six creative "days" was 6,000 years long.. 3. now they teach that the universe was created at some unspecified point in the past, and that each of the six creative "days" was millions of years long.

  so here are my questions: i know that point #2 (above) is promoted in the paradise lost book, and i know that point #3 (above) is promoted in the life-how did it get here-by evolution or by creation book.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  I should add that the WT tried to overcome some of the chronology problems by stating that the universe and the earth existed for some unknown length of time before Jehovah began the "creative days" to prepare the earth for humans.

  The whole thing is still absolutely ridiculous.
• 
  10

  Age of Earth / Age of Universe

  by Shepherd Book in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here's my understanding of the watchtower's teachings through the years -.

  1. first they taught that the universe and the earth were created 6,000 years ago in a single week.. 2. then they taught that the universe was created at some unspecified point in the past, and that each of the six creative "days" was 6,000 years long.. 3. now they teach that the universe was created at some unspecified point in the past, and that each of the six creative "days" was millions of years long.

  so here are my questions: i know that point #2 (above) is promoted in the paradise lost book, and i know that point #3 (above) is promoted in the life-how did it get here-by evolution or by creation book.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  The WT teachings about the length of the creative days and when life began on earth was one of the lynchpin issues that made me question everything.

  I left in 1997 after a 35+ year association with the BORG. My Mom started studying with the Dubs when I was about 4 years old (1960).

  As I recall (my memory of the exact WT stance could be a little rusty on this), at the time I left, the 7 creative days were considered to each be 7,000 years long. So, at the end of the 6th creative day, by the time EVE was created, 42,000 years had elapsed. The 6,000 year anniversary of Adam's creation was 1975. When the Big "A" didn't happen in 1975 the WT conjectured that there was some unknown period of time between Adam's creation and Eve's creation, but the 7th creative day began after both of them had been created. The 7th creative day has now been running for 6,000+ years. The final 1,000 year period of the 7th creative day was supposed to be Christ's millenial reign, thus completing 49,000 years for the 7 creative days.

  Even if you stretch credulity to say that life on earth has existed on earth for 50,000 + years, you would still come up very short with the scientific evidence. According to WT calculations, if life started on the 3rd creative day, it means that life on earth has been here for a maximum of 34,000 years.

  Anyway the WT cuts it, they are going to be stuck trying to rectify the descrepancies in Bible chronology and the facts of science. The whole exercise is absolutely ridiculous.
• 
  6

  Bad things that can happen with vegetables, couches and cat bowls

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?14,000_suffer_vegetable-related_injuries&in_article_id=497336&in_page_id=34.

  14,000 suffer vegetable-related injuriesthursday, january 22, 2009. are health and safety rules over the top?

  perhaps not, judging by the bizarre accidents we have in our own homes, frequently involving vegetables.. embarrassing incidents occur with alarming regularity more than 14,000 people ended up in hospital with compromising vegetable-related injuries.. about 500 adventurous types turned up at a&e having knobbled themselves with a sex aid.. and a mysterious 41 had had a close encounter with a goat, show figures from the royal society for the prevention of accidents.. then there are the fatal accid ents unfortunate souls have drowned in cat bowls and been killed by a sofa bed while looking for the remote control.. one 23-year-old from rochdale, greater manchester, died after slipping and becoming impaled on a lamp in the garden.. we can also damage other people, as shown by the mother who accidentally glued her daughter's eyes shut by squeezing in nail glue instead of eye drops.. 'there is a seasonal aspect to accidents,' said dr andrew dove of nottingham university hosp ital.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  Interesting stuff...

  I've always thought that a TV series featuring the types of accidents that send people to emergency rooms could actually be useful to inform the public about common sense safety in our everyday lives. Over the years, ER docs and nurses that I have known have told me stories about the bizarre injuries and circumstances that send people to the ER.

  Even the most vivid imagination couldn't create some of the accident/injury scenarios that they have actually seen or treated.

  Like the guy who bled to death while watching a football game. He cut his toe (apparently not too badly) when he got up get a beer during a commercial. He ignored it, and his girlfriend put his foot in a bucket (rather than bandage it up) so that he wouldn't get blood on the carpet. He passed out from blood loss (probably because the cut was at an extemity and at the lowest elevation) and died with a cigarette and a beer in hands.

  What a way to go, huh???
• 
  50

  Has your " Self Esteem " Improved After Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses ?

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems to be an issue that some have after leaving the witness cult because none of us were ever made to feel we were " good " enough or "valued " enough for what we were trying to accomplish in the cult.

  growing up i had pounded into my head by my jw elder father what jesus said, " after doing all things remember you are good for nothing slaves , what we have done is what we ought to have done.

  " then i thought to myself - " where's the joy in that ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  Great topic, Mr. Flipper. Actually, this is probably the single most important topic for all of us...whether we are "still-in," fading, on-the-way-out, or already out.

  After all, self-esteem is the starting place for everything we do as humans. Without self esteem you can't really begin to talk about anything else. For a person to realize that they have value and that their thoughts and participation in our society matter just because they are here (and not because of the "group") is HUGE!!!

  There is no question that the BORG's insidious control of members hinges on tying any possible feelings of self worth to how much a person is doing in Dub related activities. And of course, we know it is never, ever, EVER enough. I used to work my ass off as a publisher, M.S. and Elder, while trying to maintain a decent standard of living, and I always felt deficient.

  Once the BORG traps a person into thinking that all (and the only) self esteem possible emanates from one's identity as a Witness, its like the classic control technique where the elephant can be tetherd with a flimsy, little piece of twine. All they have to do is tug the twine a little and you can't think about anything beyond the radius the allowed by the tether.

  When the tether is severed it may be confusing for a once-enslaved person to realize that there is a rewarding life beyond and that inputs to building self esteem are virtually limitless. It just takes some time to engage the world outside of the BORG to find that others will value what we have to offer. I was not a born-in Dub (pretty close), so I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for lifers to begin building their self esteem outside of the BORG. Nevertheless, a large part of the challenge must be satisfied with the mere knowledge that self esteem outside of the BORG is possible and, in fact, can richly exceed anything possible as a Dub.

  For me, going back to school started me down the path and my self esteem continues to grow all the time. Sometimes it still amazes me that I am sought out for advice and observations because I have something valuable to offer others.
• 
  29

  What does "Armageddon" mean to you now?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now that you no longer have the wt's view, what do you believe it actually refers to?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Alpaca

  Armaggedon is a fantasy, just like all of the other "prophecies" and explanations (Biblical and non-biblical) for divine participation in the affairs of man and the earth.

  It's funny...even when I was a Dub I can remember standing in line at the supermarket checkout and laughing at the bizarre and outlandish predictions on the covers of the Enquirer and the Weekly World News. Also, do you guys remember the cartoons in lots of magazines poking fun at the misfit-looking guys carrying signs saying, "the end is near" ???

  Over time I began to look at those tabloid headlines and think to myself that the Dub predictions, especially Armageddon, were just as ridiculous. Of course, there was a lot of other dubious Dub stuff I was thinking about, too. But, the realization was inescapable that the Dubs were just as misguided as the self-anointed cartoon prophets carrying "the end is near" signs.

  I had a Catholic friend in high school, whose dad went to church but was also a very pragmatic guy. Whenever I tried to witness to him he would say that 'the end comes everyday for someone and that it has always been that way and will always be that way." Years later his comments have enduring value.

  Sorry, but when it comes to the earth, the life on it, and the geologic/evolutionary processes that have been been at work for 100s of milliions of years, science is the only relevant domain to explain things. Any kind of supernatural explanation of how things have come to be or how things will happen in the future is a waste of time, effort and emotion if you are going to use them to make life-impacting decisions.

  Some of the posters on this board are ardent about some divine interest in, or oversight of, the earth, humans, and the universe. That's fine, if it makes you feel good...it may or may not be so...but it can't proven empirically.